Coyote at 400y & Deer

Status
Not open for further replies.
So you don't zero your gun in? And you don't take target practice at particular designated ranges? I feel that my practice at ranges of 100-200-300-400 yards really help me in making all my shots in the field... running or not. Knowing what the bullet is doing on a regular basis helps a guy adjust to variables and changes in the hunting scenario.

Yeah, Yeah ballistics and target practice don't mean jack when a coyote is 3/4 of a mile away at a dead sprint.... but you'd be better off understanding them before you're in that situation. The more you undestand them the more you'll see how marvelous the shots your making are.
 
jrb

I did not mention anything about 3/4 of a mile in my post. A man has to know his limitations and mine is 400 as I stated.

I simply explained my opinion on keeping things simple while shooting. Shooting is fun for me,but when a person has to rely on a laptop, aneometer, and range finder, it takes some of the fun out of it.

Randy
 
You wont gain anything trying to put words in my mouth Jrb,I shoot plenty and know pretty much what to expect from my bullets and rifles.I do not sit at a bench very often,and dont really care to for extended periods of time.I can read the same books your reading and make the same Quotes that your making.There nothing but Guide lines and dont hold true to every gun bullet combination if you can even find them listed!So stop blowing wind and move to the shooting sight theywill love to talk #s with you See Ya Bill
 
R. Shaw, I wasn't referring to your post specifically. I was making reference to the idealogy that ballistics don't matter in riflery.

Willie; First off, I pulled a double this evening so I guess I'm done for the year. Secondly I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was rephrasing questions for about the fifth time in hopes of extracting an awnser. I assumed you would at least be able to talk about your weapons accuracy at 100-200-300-400 yards... most rifleman know their performance at these ranges.

There aren't many people that can confidently gun down a coyote running anywhere from 10-35 MPH at ranges of 800-900 yards, accomodating for winds, massive bullet drops & variances... once again I'm not saying its impossible or that your lying.. I'm saying I expected you would have some advice for us so we could get closer to this plateau. I was looking for tips on creating moving targets, shimming scope rings, judging 1/2 mile wind drifts, measuring off accurate leads or anything else pertnant to this type of shooting.

I'm surpised I'm being chastised for being inquisitive and that nobody else is interested in developing these talents you have... I guess we're going to have to live with the logic "Cuz I say I can" instead of having intelligent dialogue. If shooting 2,000 rounds a year was all it took, I'd be ahead of the curve Willie... I'm missing out on a few tips and tricks somewhere. I've always assumed it was my lack of luck that kept me from hitting those shots... definatly not a lack of interest, study, money or practice! I shoot sporting clays in competition from time to time so I don't think its my hand eye coordination or wing shooting capability... I was hoping to hear some suggestions from you, other than "go shove it".
 
I think you should read all the posts again.I told you how my rifles shoot,As for drift its not a factor that you have to figure on a running coyote,nor do you have the time,If the bullet hits short and behind how would you compensate? If you cant figure this out I dont really know what to say to you.In all actuality your scope can be off at 100yd by inches and this method will still work as its much like tracers only watching the snow ,dust or dirt fly.I take it that youve never hunted on snow that stays around .It dosent always work as some days you cant see the bullets hit,But when you can its great,And if you READ the posts carfully those 1/2 mile shots are not made very often,But 500-600yd shots are made very often.Your very quick to judge and awful sarcastic.This tells me I hit the nail on the head a few timesBy the way I think My rifles are all set at about 1.5 High at 100 and shoot pretty good out to 350 on coyote size targets with out a hold over. Dont you wonder why nobody likes you????
 
jrbhunter, I like you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I think you ask some verry pertinent questions. However I doubt any direct answers will be forthcoming.
I shoot a .223 a lot, I kill lots of coyotes and I sure would like to know how to make those 900 yd. shots. With drift,drop,and loss of energy,I'm thinking my gun would be pointing where there ain't no coyote. Tricky. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif but I hear it can be done.

Heck I was impressed when I hit one at 410 yds. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I'd be impossible to live with if I killed them at 900 yds. over and over. I would never stop bragging. Why I'd be a real pita and I doubt any one would even listen after a while.
 
“your scope can be off at 100yd by inches and this method will still work as its much like tracers only watching the snow ,dust or dirt fly.” “It dosent always work as some days you cant see the bullets hit”

Okay, I guess that’s where I was confused. We had talked about luck versus skill and it appeard that you thought it was mostly skill. I know a six year old girl that spit 22lr rounds across a plowed field until she caught up to a running ground hog… she doesn’t target practice much either. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

“1/2 mile shots are not made very often”
If they’re made 2-3 times a year its pretty frequent in my book. Enough that I thought there may be information to be learned from you.

“500-600yd shots are made very often.”
Those shots are made very often all across the country… those weren’t breaking news and most people don’t use the “point and click” method on shots of those ranges.

“Your very quick to judge and awful sarcastic.”
I’m not quick to judge. Until fairly recently I hadn’t made a judgement of you. I was quick to ask questions… I guess that’s where I ruffled your feathers. My sarcasm is meant lightheartedly… never seriously.

“pretty good out to 350 on coyote size targets”
That explains the need for “Point and Click” methodology, most guys making 600 yard shots consistently are shooting 3-5 inch groups at 350 yards…. But that’s all just “practice and ballistics” junk science.

“This tells me I hit the nail on the head”
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Sorry for any inconvenience or feather ruffling, that wasn’t my intention. I think I’ve absorbed all the knowledge I can from this thread so I’ll leave you alone. Apologies to the thread creator Muddy Fork; didn’t mean to hijack it! My opinion is that you’ll be fine with the .243 and Savage does make a good gun. If you get it lined out and want to come up and try it out in Southern Indiana just drop me a line; can’t shoot deer though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

P.S. Muddy Fork have you made the decision or purchased the gun yet?
 
Back in my military days I saw a dog and pony show where a guy gave a demonstration of the capabilities of the M-16 (5.56mm). His grand finally was a target at 900 meters. He fired from a fox hole while resting on sand bags. He fired three shots at the target and had three misses – but he was pretty dam close. With a few more shots I’m sure he could have hit it, after all that’s his job and was most likely one of the best in the army at that time.

Now I realize there a bit more distance involved in the demonstration and the target was larger and stationary… and that he was firing a match grade weapon and not a mini 14… and was the best in the army… and he missed.

There’s a reason why guys who regularly shoot at that distance use heavy match bullets, 30 pound custom rifles mated up to 28 inch custom barrels…

I’m not going to say a 900 yard shot on a moving dog can’t be done, but it is a “Hail Mary” shot at best. Even for an excellent shooter firing a match grade ar, your chances of hitting a moving target at that distance are probably less than a pro golfer getting a hole in one… you may get pretty close at times, but it only going to happen on the very rare occation - there are just too many variables.

JMHO.
 
TAC
If the guy was shooting at a real live soldier at the other end he might have scared the piss out of him but I think killing him or anything at that range IS HAIL MARY with an M16. IMHO

'Course I never was too fond of the darned thing (M-16 A1)anyway. It kept throwing enough hot brass down my neck (I'm a leftie)I never got to see where the bullets hit anyway. kinda hard to concentrate with your neck getting seared.
 
Guy's,

I realize i'm new to this forum and don't want to offend anyone however i'd like to know what is with all the doubt attitude? I mean common weather you believe it or not 900 yard shot's are possible..

How do you guy's think the buffalo hunters made the shot's they did? Long range gun's they did Not have yet countless time's they made unheard of shot's. Those Big bullet's were heavy and required elevation guess's, they had more often then not iron sight's too.

From what i've read here over the last few day's everyone seem's very helpful to one another and i've learned a few trick's myself.

Yet most of the post i've seen toward the 223 are somewhat too bias with computer data. I've seen countless deer fall to the .223 at 2 to 300 yard shot's, i've watched yote's get it with everywhere from 500 and down. The .223 is a Great Caliber for alot of reason's. Even on the latest 22mag post some of you guy's say not to shoot it past 50 yard's on yote's? I've seen more then one yote die with a 22lr at 100 yard's, not everything is luck!

Its a matter of skill and knowing your gun and how it shoot's too. I have a cousin that brought in a new 280 rem last year to hunt deer. It was a Fine rifle with a great scope yet i watched him dupe shot after shot. He could'nt hit a deer let alone buy one that day.

He said let's go check it again to see if it's not sighted in properly, we did and it shot a 1/2 inch 3 shot group at 100 by my brother in law and myself. Simply a matter of a guy who did'nt handle or shoot nearly as often as we did nothing more.

Now i'm not saying i could make a 900 yard shot on a yote but i am saying i do believe in the right hand's it is possible! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Wabo, welcome to Predator Masters. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I didn't see anyone say the 900 yarder is impossible. It's just that the guys that do it seem reluctant to help others achieve those lofty heights of success. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Pardon me gents! I been sitting back reading these posts in this thread......Ummmmm 900 yard shots at a running coyote, well this I gotta see fellars. Now I am NOT saying it can't happen once in a great while, kinda like a pro-golfer making a hole in one you understand. You swing and hit enough balls and someday your gonna get lucky.

Now hitting running targets like a coyote in any kind of regularity at 700 yards, I raise my eyebrows, when you speak of that little .223 caliber accomplishing this feat. Once again at 500 yards it takes one heck of a skilled marksmen and the way some of you folks shoot that Lil .223, I kinda wish you would have been in my platoon when crossing those rice patties several decades ago. We wouldn't have needed any artillery support I grant you. I can see right now I am in tall cotton, communicating with Yalls shooting capabilities. Them poor coyotes ain't got neary a chance I figure, ifin yall are out in the field that day.

I have two long range predator rifles! One is a 6mm Remington with bull barrel and 6x18 Unertle scope and the other is a 264/300 Win mag with a 6 x 18 scope. Now if a shooter or hunter doesn't practice shooting at various yardage, I can only say that striking a yote at 700 or 900 yards is pure luck, especially when one doesn't know how far to lead that animal or high high to aim. Sorry, but those are things one just doesn't forget after you take put the first one down at 900 yards.

I am from Missouri, so please pardon me for being somewhat skeptical in ones shooting abilities at 900 yards with a "Piss Ant Caliber" such as the .223 is for long range target or predator shooting. I am up to any invitations of one shooting abilities at 900 yards on a running coyote in the wild. I am even tempted to put a dollar or two on that kind of sport shooting. I am from Missouri and we do have a motto in this state. It's called "SHOW ME" Good Day Gentleman!
 
Tonk,

First i'd like to Thankyou for your time defending our country!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I'd like to see 900 yard shot's done too! Yet i do believe it can be done when the right guy is holding it. As far as you compair'n 500 yard shot's from the M16 in a rice field to now. Well consider if you will that anytime i have shot at a yote at that range i'm pretty certain i don't have to worry about where i walk. Also so far i have'nt had to worry about getting shot at by the Yote either.

Also my heart is'nt pounding 90 to nothing for the above reason's. Next i got me a scope and bipod. Lot's of other reason's too that would have been a factor in 500 yard shot's over there. Many of which i have never experienced Thank's to you and those like you!!!

Yet i have been able to witness some pretty Awesome shot's before and i do think it's possible. I'll be the first to admit, Not by me though. So far my best single one kill shot has been around 450 yard's, past that and i shake like a leaf. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Well I can't stand it anymore. I've been reading this thread and gigglin ever since it got started.

You know the internet is a wonderful thing. On the web you can be the best (unidentified) shot in the world, or the fastest (undiscovered) runner, or the most handsome (no pictures please) on an online dating site. And you can even make 900 yard shots on running coyotes ROUTINELY!!! With a .223!!!!!! Sounds alot like a post a little while ago that claimed 1" groups at 300 yards with an AR in any weather at anytime. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

You guys need to go down to your local recruiting office because talent like that needs to be utilized where it will do the most good. You'd make Carlos Hathcock look like an amateur.
 
Wabo, welcome to the site. I like your understandingness and open mind, however, I do have a question. Most of us here target practice at various ranges and keep our guns in line from lots of bench practice... with this practice 400-500 yard shots aren't uncommon... even though their bragged about for months /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

My question to you is, have you ever zeroed a gun in at 200 yards... then known it was 7" low at 300... and known it was about 21" low at 400 and THEN TRIED A 900 YARD SHOT? Bullets of all types... especially the .223... will drop off more swiftly as it gets downrange. Speed and energy are tappering off of that round so fast its loss is exponential. The bullet will have dropped about 35' by the time it gets there and will be prone to about 10' of side to side drift... WITHOUT WIND.

Once again, nobody is saying "impossible" but there IS a lot of luck involved. Tiger Woods has hit hole-in-ones in his career... does that mean he could take a bucket of 50 balls and do it again? Thats pretty much what we have here.

I've killed many coyotes (20+) with a 22lr myself... just because thats what I carry in the truck. I've seen coyotes die at 120 yards with a 22mag. I've killed them with a 17HMR at 50 and 100 yards. None of this means that I would suggest another hunter to carry such a weapon... to many variables were involved to expect another hunter to carry that weapon day in and day out with success. I could tell you how its done.. how I acheived it... but still wouldn't expect everyone to jump on the rimfire bandwagon.

P.S. Boy those guys from the "Show Me" state really come out of the woodwork on stuff like this huh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I like to call my coyotes in to a reasonable range, and then shoot him dead with one shot. No guess work involved. 200 yard broadside coyote on a calm day usually ends up dead. I don't take pot shots at coyotes that are 1/2 mile away. Doesn't sound very sporting to me, but then I am a caller. My coyotes are spooky enough the way it is. I can't imagine scaring them all away by shooting at em from 1/2 mile away. Shucks, the coyotes never would come to a call again. I will never forget the day old Murry Burnham said to me "If we could kill every coyote we called, there would be no call shy coyotes." Murry is a legend in his own time. When he speaks, I listen.
 
Muddy Fork,

FWIW, this post has become very entertaining, with all of the bickering that has gone on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

For your intended purpose, both .243 and 1/4 bore will work! I'd give the nod to 1/4 bore if you are going to use this as your primary deer rifle. If you are going to use this as your primary coyote rifle (and thus gettin' another rifle for deer), then get the .243....there is a reason John Lewis and other rifle makers make beanfield rifles with the 1/4 bore.

A 1/4 bore dropped in my hands about a year ago. It is a Ruger #1, and boy, this rifle can shoot. Only has had trigger modification, but at 300 yards with 117 Hornadys, this rifle puts in an hole just a tad under 2.75". This is just with one load, have not worked up any other loads or powders. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I have heard of folks say the 1/4 bore is good for small size deers, but my much-loved .270 is excellent with 130 grain pills, and this ain't much more than a 117 grain pill!

I think you should base your sslection on: primary use of the rifle AND action type you prefer (SA or LA).

For heavens sake :rolleyes: , stick a quality scope on the rifle. You can get a new VX-II 3-9*40 for $250 and this will work, but I'd get a variable in 12x for your intended range. Coyotes are small at 400 yards. I have been hearing great reviews on the Burris Fullfield also.

Good luck with your choices, both are dog-killers...provided you have praticed at those ranges.
 
Originally posted by jrbhunter:
A good quality, hot .223 55 Gr. bullets get 3200 FPS at the muzzle. The fall off is as follows...
At 100 - 2870fps
At 200 - 2520
At 300 - 2200
At 400 - 1910
At 500 - 1640
At 600 - 1407
At 800 - 1072
At 1000 - 925fps

The bullet is taking a while to get there, I can't find reliable data on just how long but its signifigant.

Time of flight is actually a pretty simple calculation since you thoughtfully provided downrange velocities.
You take the average velocity (muzzle + terminal)/2 and compare that to the distance.

800 yard TOF - 1.124 seconds (2,136 fps average velocity over 2400 feet)
1000 TOF - 1.28 seconds

Getting the bullets in the general vicinity of a coyote at 900 yards takes some skill, but hitting one is, by definition, luck. A rifle shooting MOA accuracy is still going to throw a 9" group at that range, more than enough to miss a coyote standing still under perfect conditions. However, people have shot down jet airplanes with open sighted rifles, if you throw enough lead eventually you will connect, so I wouldn't dispute anyone's claims.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Fisnhunt. I knew it was a simple operation but I didn't want to put some of my fuzzy math in on top of the stone cold facts... that aggrivates some readers when they have to interpulate fact from formulation. I tried the calculation, let me know if I'm wrong somewhere... for a 1,000 yard calculation you'd take 3200+925/2= 2062 (Average Velocity) then 2062FPS=687.3yrds per sec.

So 1000/687.3=1.45 whcih is seconds on a 1,000 yard flight? TOF=1.45?

As far as disputing someones claims... if it were a one time deal there would be no dispute. I'm not even disputing the facts as they are, it just seems that as frequent as they're killing yotes in those situations they would have some tactics for us to try. I guess we'll just have to fling led at coyotes 1/2 mile away and find out how successful we are... the thought had honestly never crossed my mind before this week... I always try something drastic like calling or stalking on yotes in different area codes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top