Coyote at 400y & Deer

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Just a word about selecting a scope. You said you were wanting something for low light conditions. I would look at something with a 50mm objective. This is only going to increase the amount of light, going smaller of course only decreases it. Having an illuminated reticle is only going to light up the cross hairs. I have seen where the illumination can actually darken the target your aiming for. Make sure that it's adjustable. Also if selecting a reticle for these conditions make sure that you don't go to fine a crosshair.
 
I looked at the site Handirifle and also checked out Hornady's and it looks like for the non-reloader that I am right now the .243 has a lot more to offer.

For the .243 Remington has a 75g, two 80g, two 90g, and two 100g, then Hornady has a 58g, 75g, two 95g, and two 100g.

For the 25-06 Remington has a 100g, 115g, and 120g, then Hornady only has three 117g

I think I've just decided that my caliber will be a .243 Win.

Now will the 243 Win., Hornady 58 gr. V-MAX MOLY that has 2206/627 Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs) at 400y kill a coyote?
 
Your post said Deer and Coyote at 400, nothing about 150 for deer.
With that change a 243 is a good choice, but still lose the Simmons.
I said 300 Winny cause at that kind of range I think it is a great deer choice. As a matter of fact is is a good big game choice at any range.
It is what I would use if I knew 400 plus was the range. Cause with my 300 winny I can hit em and kill em at that range and more.
It is my all time favorite for extreme range.
I own a 243 and love it, 223 also, BUT as your post said, Deer and coyote at 400 and plus, there is no better caliber.
my opine based on 40 years of use.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Carl
 
I own a Simmon's Atec and it is a nice clear scope for the money. However I do not care for the windage and elevation adjustments which seem to hang and not change the point of impact for several clicks. When it finally lets go you usually end up with all the accumulated adjustments. Mine is in the box and will be installed on a rimfire sometime this summer, if it works it stays. I just saw the same thing with one of the low end Bushnells yesterday, ended up pecking on the turrent caps after each adjustment to ge it to work right. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
i would look into the 3200 or even a rifleman by loupy. the rifleman is not as nice as the varx3 yet it will hold it's own and i believe it will do just what you want. in a 4-12 for like $200 it would make a deadly outfit.
 
Muddy fork, I tend to agree with 223shooter on the Rifleman series scopes. All I have read about them is good. The only negative is there is no click adjustment. Not a big deal to me since it will mostly be a set and forget type of deal. My '06 will wear a 2X7 Rifleman this fall.

Bofire
I’m looking at a setup that will kill a coyote out to 300-400y. I also want to be able to hunt deer in KY with it to
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He didn't really say deer at 400 but it is easy to see why you thought that. I would NOT try a 243 on a deer at 400, though some might. For that, I'd have to agree with you on the 300 winny. I'd trust my '06 there too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif .
 
Muddy fork,
If it were me and I knew I'd be taking 400yd shots at yotes, I'd go with a 75-90gr bullet. That is what makes the 243 superior to the 22 centerfires at that range, is the heavier bullet. That high MV bleeds off fas with the 58gr loads. It is not a very aerodynamic bullet.

I suppose the same argument could be used in favor of the 25-06, just not as much difference, especially with loads like the light magnums out there.
 
Id go with the 25/06 and a 75Hp,A.223 will kill em just as dead at 400yd but that 25 walks with a big stick 300Mag definate over kill even on the deer with recoil that will make your eyes water.
 
Hitting a coyote at 400 yards is going to require more than good gun selection! I feel confident at those ranges with my 22-250 but not with the oversized guns like 25-06 & 30-06. I don't have a 330winmag but I'm sure it would apply very similar to the 06's and 7mm's. The .243 won't punish you off the rifle range like those big guns, thats what it has always taken for me to get good with a gun.... round after round on the range.

If you get to the point you feel confident ethically killing a coyote at 400 yards... you're going to be hitting pie plates. A pie plate sized group out of a .243 at 400 yards will make short work of any Kentucky whitetail I've seen. Your talking about punching out vitals like lungs, hearts and shoulders at will... that will easily take down a whitetail. I'd make sure you're that good before I attempted such a shot... of corse thats a given.

I've taken a coyote at 460 yards with my 30-06 but I must admit it was somewhat of a hail marry and a rare situation. I live in southern Indiana and in the parts of northern kentucky I've hunted (terrain similar to ours) the 400 yard shots are few and far between... most setups in these areas produce coyotes at 100-150 yards & deer in the 50-200 yard range. In my opinion you'll be just fine with that Savage .243; it would be my first choice in your situation anyway, kinda funny you already had your eyes on my suggestion.
 
A 25/06 is not an over sized gun for coyotes and 400-500 yd shots are by no means hailmary shots.,there is nothing wrong with a 22/250 but for many years even after the intro of the 250 in the 70s the 25 was king of the hill and still holds its own out on the prairies.
 
Muddy fork,
I shoot the 243 and love it,for both coyote and deer.I had a tasco 4-16x40A/O magIV.And noticed at magnification on the high end to be useless in low light.This year I picked up a 5.5-16.5x44A/O Nikon monarch for $330 new.I noticed it is much brighter on the higher magnification in low light.The tasco's adjustments would hang up also and was never all that precise,but it served its purpose for the time being till I could get something better.The nikon was on sale at a sporting goods store,marked down from $400.So you can find deals if you look around.
 
My definition of oversized may be differnt than yours. My 06's put out more of a punch when you shoot 100 rounds in a day than the .223,22-250 or .243. I like a varmint gun to be something I can shoot hundreds of times, offhand and get comfortable with it... just my opinion that the 06 is just a little too much for that.

I also like my varmint rifle to be easier on the hides than the 06 is... they have a habit of tearing off legs and elbows at my most common calling ranges (75-150 yards) Here in my area we don't have paries where we can sail rounds for hundreds of yards... heavier high powered guns like 7mm & 06's are somewhat dangerous to fling around both in target practice and hunting situations around here. Thats why we aren't allowed to deer hunt with them.

The price of bullets also rise when you jump to the heavier rounds... just a few reasons that make me believe the 06's are more than the doctor orders for coyotes. The 25-06 would definatly be the best choice of those options of 25-06, 30-06, 7mm or 300 Win Mag but once you throw in the 243 I think it becomes the best choice. All just my opinion and the ramblings of a lunatic mind /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I think most are off track here. He never really was interestedin deer at 400yds, just a 400yd coyote rifle and deer to 150 or so. The 243 and 25-06 are literally performance twins with all bullet weights they are loaded in. I really think if one made 6mm bullets in 120gr that the 243 would still be there.

Same old argument as the '06 and 308. Plus you have the "short fat" design that is being recognized as more accurate by factories. It has always been that way for the bench rest guys.

Again, the 243 is not punishing to shoot, more factory loadings, more availability, more capable on both speciea then the 22's and a balistic twin to the 25-06. How can you lose?

All that said I also own an '06. For the heavy stuff.
 
I dont think you will be getting many shots at coyotes at 400 yards anyway. I call alot and rarely see them out that far in sage country. About the only time I'm shooting at anything over 400 yards is at the rifle range. Most coyotes are taken at less than 75 yards. It is nice having a rifle capable of hitting a target at the longer ranges though. The lower end Leupold scopes are within your price range and I think they are much better scopes than anything Simmons puts out.
 
Here in South Mn,dead of winter,we dont do a lot of calling and most of the shots you get are running away and out to whatever range shot you would like to attempt.I see guys shoot em down at 900yd running every year with .223s in Mini and AR styles Ive even done in a few this way as on good days you can see the bullet kick snow and just keep compensating till you get em.Im not looking for an ethics war or any thing here just telling it. The reason I use 900yd is because that is where the half mile fence is in the sguare miles here and 450 at the 1/4 so the range finder dosent find a lot of use here.I also own a .243 in a Tika and I still reach for my 1/4 bore on the way out the door. Nuff said.
 
Whats a coyote look like at 900 yards? Shooting a semiauto at a speck of fur at 900 yards While it is running. Your a better shot than I!
 
Lol Ronald......a 900 yard shot on running coyotes with a 223 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif I'm from Missouri......show me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif You boys need to start measuring shots in 1/4 and 1/2 sections.
 
Ohh no, here we go again. In previous discussions we've calculated the required leads from various guns with variuos loads at various distances with various running speeds... The calculations show that a HOT 22-250 round at 200 yards will need to lead a coyote jogging (8MPH)about 6 feet! A coyote can run up to 35 MPH so if he was "running" instead of "jogging or walking" then I'd say you're leading the coyote somewhere about 20-30 feet... thats if your pushing 4,000-4,200 FPS... which a .223 won't do. With the slower bullet you're going to lead more... none of this takes into consideration windage or bullet drop.

I know a guy in Arizona that says if I get out there he'll show me how its done... I think he's counting on me not dropping 600 bucks on an airplane ticket!
 
Ronald,900 yards, Lets see,Bull feathers.......
Yep, Thats a long ways, Any way it is where i come from..thats about 2,700 feet i think, And running, WOW Good shooting........Joe..........
 
Dont matter one bit to me weather you believe it or not!Ive seen it twice this winter and done one myself a couple of years ago,Alot more die at 500-700 and like I said this is not calling its just spot and chase! As far as measuring a half mile Ive explained it once but seein as your from Mo.why dont you tell all these people about how many yds. are in a Mo.1/2 mile if youve got enough fingers an toes. By the way check a Topo map of my area,you can see all across alot of these miles from some point or another.No one hunts and waits for those long shots,They just dont pass here on any shots.If you can see em you can hit em. Well maybe not you .Im a bettin man if you are.
 
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