Coyote at 400y & Deer

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Muddy Fork

New member
I’m looking at a setup that will kill a coyote out to 300-400y. I also want to be able to hunt deer in KY with it to. The gun I’m looking at is a Savage 243 Win. Model 11G with AccuTrigger, with a Simmons 44 Mag 6.5-20x44 Illuminated Mil Dot scope and Hornady 75gr HP “Custom Rifle Ammunition”.
Will this do the job or is there something better for around $580 for gun and scope?
 
Your choice of guns and caliber is a good one. I would opt for some better glass to top it with. Your bullet choice is great for coyotes, but for deer, I would look for a good solid constructed buttet like a swift A frame, tropy bonded bear claw, nosler partition or acubond in the 90- 110gr weight. You could also use these bullets on coyotes and might minimise pelt damage.
Another good choice would be a 25-06.
 
I guess I should have stated that this Hornady cartridge would only be for the coyotes not the deer, but if there's one that would shot pretty flat out to 300-400y that would take a deer at 150y that would be great.
I don't know much about the 25-06 Rem is it a better choice? I also have a limit or how much $$$ I can spend and I can get a nice 243 Win for under $400.
What would be the best scope to buy for the least amount of money? I know we get what we pay for, but only to a certain point. Over that point is when you have more dollars then sense...
I also like the idea of an illuminated reticle for half light and the closer night time hunting.
 
Tony, I havent looked or seen accubond bullets for the 243. Just using that type bullet as a reference.
Muddy fork, if you are ordering this savage, you should be able to get it ion 25-06 also. Im not positive on this, but the quarter bore is becoming a popular round and has been around for a long time. Flat shooter. If you load , bullets are available from 75 gr HP and v-mav up to 120 gr big game bullets. I have been using mine for blowing apart JackRabbits and have taken a couple of yotes with it too. I love this round.
As far as cheap good scopes, you do get what you pay for. Personally the cheapest I would go on either of these guns would be the Simmons Aetec 2.8-10x44. I have 2 of these. One on my 221 fireball (use to be on my AR too) and one on my 25-06. I have taken these guns out on my 4 wheeler and bounced them around pretty good and they have never changed POI, and they are exceptionally clear. Avarage price is aroung $185 but can be found cheaper. Natchez sometimes has manufacture refurbished ones for around 95 dollars. This is the only Simmons scope I would buy.
 
Damn Lance, don't tease me like that. I've been waiting for them but I still don't think they're making them yet. I guess I'll just have to keep waiting and hoping. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
crapshoot,
I have the same Simmons Aetec on my rifled slug gun I use on deer and it's great. I started out looking as the Aetec 3.8-12x44 with the illuminated reticle from Natchez, but thought a 20 power of the 44mag scope would help out at 300-400y. Is the 20 power really needed or would a 12 power work? I live in the Midwest where I will only be taking shoots at those distances off my porch with a very good rest. This won't be the only way I'll hunt coyotes, but sense I see them and other varmints from there all the time this will be the majority of my shoots.

tonlocus,
I looked at the Bushnell and saw the new Elite Firefly 5-15x40. Does anybody have one?
 
I have the simmons aetec in 3.8 X 12 on a 22.250 and it is an absolute gem.169.00 at wmt can you believe it? It is as clear as my lpold 3X9. I also think there are times when you pay for the name.
 
I shoot a Rem 700 25-06 with a Leupold 3x9x40- 95gr positive expansion points on coyotes with minimal fur damage and 110-117gr Hornaday soft tip ballistics on deer and have yet to have any problems with deer. Farthest coyote taken was at 400 and deer was at 450 neither one went 10 yrds after being hit. My buddy had this gun before he sold it to me and consistently shot prarie dogs at 800-1000 yrds. If you decide 25-06 I believe you will not be disappointed.
 
Muddy Fork
I have no experience with the 25-06 but it has a great reputation for both of what you ask. In fact it will kill deer at probably the rangs you describe for yotes.

The 243 will have slightly less recoil and might be cheaper to shoot. If you reload it won't matter much.

I have hunted with a Savage 243 and can tell you that the Sierra 85gr BTHP (Game King) is deadly on BOTH animals. Nothing like having a round that is accurate and deadly and can be used all the time. No figuring out two different loads.

Sierra highly recommends this bullet for deer. It WILL get the job done. My Savage used to put 3 shots in a clover at 100yds with this load.

This was a rifle I bought in 1974 and had a real cheap K-mart 3-9 variable on it.

Longest yote I killed was 250yds and it hit him like a truck.

In summation, you wont go wrong with either round the 243 or the 25-06. The 25 will just give a bit more range. Like comparing the .308 to the 30-06. Seems kinda funny since those are the parent cartridges of each.
 
CRAPSHOOT! The rifle and caliber are fine. I would opt for the 25-06 because I have used all three on long range and on windy days. I have a .243, 6mm Remgington and the 1/4 bore 06.

Long range favors the 1/4 bore 06 like it or not.
On deer it also comes out on top when using a 120 grain bullet like a Nosler Partiton. It is also very hard to hunt deer with a 6 x 20 scope on top the barrel. This type scope is a specialty scope for long range targets. You would in my humble opinion be better served with a 4 x 12 scope of very good quality instead.

Your the one that must make that decision, I can only tell you what I found out for myself over the last 4 decades OK.

Now the Simmons scope I would NOT even mount on any rifle I own. They are simply NOT the quality of a Leupold, Baush & Lomb, Bushnell 3200 series or better yet 4200 series. Your rifle is only as good as the glass you put on top of the barrel.

So spend your extra money on the best glass you can afford. Better to wait and buy the better than stick a sub-par scope on a good rifle and think your going to make terrific long range shots.
 
300 win mag?

I only want to be able to kill coyotes at 400y and deer at 150y.
OK some say yes and others no to the Simmons Aetec, but everybody says yes to the Bushnell 3200 which is $125 more and doesn't have an illuminated reticle which I would like to have. My question now does the ones that say no to the Simmons say no just because of the brand or is it because you’ve had experience with an Aetec and they're crap?
Is killing a coyote at 400y to much for a 243 and easy for a 25-06? How much of a drop difference is there with bullets that will take a coyote between the two at 400y that's zeroed at 250y. I'm not planning on loading my own at this time either.
Oh and thank you everybody that has responded so far. This is helping me a lot!
 
Muddy Fork,
Here is a bit of info from my old Speer #11 reloading manual. A .25-06 factory load with 100 grain boat tail has a B.C. of about.39. Leaves the barrel at about 3200 fps. When sighted dead on at 300 yards, the bullet will be 3.3" high at 100, 4" high at 200, dead on at 300 and 9.8" low at 400 yards.

A 100 grain boat tail in .243 will have a B.C. of about .430, and leaves the barel at about 2800 fps. When sighted dead on at 300 yards, it will be 4.5" high at 100, 5.3" high at 200, dead on at 300 and 12.6" low at 400 yards.
 
Muddy
This doesn't compare all loads and bullet weights but it does compare Rem FACTORY loads of each with 100gr bullets.

The premier corelokt bullet reference is the .243 The Rem express is the 25-06. At 500yds the 25-06 has a 3" advantage. I have to ask if you are a good enough shot for this to make a difference? I am not.

LONG-RANGE² TRAJECTORY*

Cartridge Type Bullet 100 150 200 250 300 400 500

Premier Core-Lokt Ultra 100 PSP CLU 1.6 1.5 zero -2.9 -7.3 -21.6 -44.3

Remington Express 100 PSP CL 1.3 1.3 zero -2.6 -6.6 -19.8 -41.7

As for the scope, I have read a LOT of people are happy with the Simmons Aetec, but I don't own one. Try to get answers from those that have owned then and see how they compared to more expensive models THEY HAVE OWNED. I have a Simmons 44 Mag on my 223 and love it so far. I would like a bit more eye relief though.

Like I said earlier, the 243 and 25-06 are very close in comparison. Take a look at this site and see what I mean.
http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballistics/ballistics.htm
This is only for their ammo but it gives a good idea for what's out there. By the way Hornady has a Light Magnum loading for the 243 100gr bullet out around 3250fps. The comparrison above was a MV of 2960 for the 100gr. That's a 300fps increase.
 
Oh yes, killing a coyote at 400yds is easily within reach of the 243. Energy remaining at 500yds for the 100gr is about 750ft lbs. For the 80gr it's about 495.

Using the lightest Rem factory bullets here are the numbers compared again. I can attest to the destructive nature of an 80-85gr bullet on a coyote, believe me it is MORE than enough. Personally, on deer to the 250yd mark I don't think there will be a noticable difference in either using quality bullets.

This is a trajectory table. Notice the 243 takes
Cartridge Type Bullet 100 150 200 250 300 400 500

.243 with 250yd zero
Remington Express 80 HP PL 2.2 2.7 2 zero -3.5 -15.8 -37.3

25-06 with 200yd zero
Remington Express 100 PSP CL 1.3 1.3 zero -2.6 -6.6 -19.8 -41.7

Notice the 243 takes the lead at 300yds in these loads. Zero the 80gr bullet 2.2" high at 100yds and it is point blank on coyote at 300yds and a a little more than 12" hold over at 400.

Good luck on your choice. really either one is a real good choice. I do think there might be cheaper ammo and more availability for the 243.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top