took out the lamb killer

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Whoa, pardner. There's no "bad" feelings going on here. As for a "debate", this is an exchange of knowledge and ideas. When we all throw what we know out on the table, everybody gets a chance to look and pick out the tid-bits that they can use. "No one" leaves the table without giving or taking something from the information "pot". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

We all benefit from each others input. Some of us get to "upgrade" what we know, or clear up misconceptions about what we "think" we know. Some of us get to add to what we already know. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I only see good coming from discussions like these. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif


Encourage the clash of "ideas"; Discourage the clash of "personalities".
 
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I hear there's a dead horse down in texas that needs to be beat too.



Well, bring that sucker over here. We'll hit him a couple licks for ya'! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Come on September! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
If I go out doing ADC work, can I bring along and use my .17rem? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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If I go out doing ADC work, can I bring along and use my .17rem? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
Nasa

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In another 3-4 weeks they will be accompanying mom and dad on food forays and start learning the ropes about how to catch their own food. That's when they learn what distress cries sound like



Do coyote pups have to be taught how to hunt? Why would my son's dog who never was with any adults chase the first rabbit he ever saw? Would a coyote pup have to be taught how to catch and eat a grasshopper? Do house cats need to be taught how to catch a bird? Do you think that most animals have a natural instinct to be able to hunt with only size, speed and toughness as the limiting factor on when they start?

And how about the sound? I've had surprisingly young pups respond to distress calls, but I've had to be in very tight proximity to them. Do they instictually respond to distress calls or do they actually have to see a rabbit being killed by an adult to "learn" what the sound is all about?

When you get spotted by a young pup does he off because of instinct?
 
Instincts are inherited reactions to a particular stimuli. The ability to transform those reactions into a usable tool is a learned behavior.

That’s why the best bird dog money can buy is just a yard dog without proper field training.

Every one of us are born with the same amount of brain cells. Some of us become nuclear scientists and some become taxi drivers. It’s all a matter of training.

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Do they instictually respond to distress calls or do they actually have to see a rabbit being killed by an adult to "learn" what the sound is all about?



They "react" instinctively to a distress sound. But they do not associate it to any particular animal, or even to food, for that matter. That is, not until the two are associated. Some coyote parents will catch a rabbit and not kill it and bring it back to the den. They will let the pups bite at and play with it. Sometimes the rabbit will let out a few squalls. The association has now been established right at the den. From then on, those pups know what that sound is when they hear it.
 
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They "react" instinctively to a distress sound



Ok Nasa, here's my point. You buy a young puppy and after bringing him home he runs into another room. So you pucker up and give a few kisses and the puppy "instinctively reacts" to the "distress sound" and comes running to you.

All I'm trying to do is give a few people ideas on how to take care of summer coyotes. If your going to hunt them you might as well raise as much hell on the family group as possible. Might as well shoot a few pups while your at it.
 
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I said "likely" too young for a reason. As you know, litters are not born all at the same time in the U.S. Lower latitudes are born much earlier in the year than up in the northern latitudes. Wyoming is far enough north that pups are not all free roaming just yet.


Tom, The coyotes at the APHIS facility in Logan, Ut. whelp the middle of March. The coyotes down here in Az whelp the middle of April. Don'tcha love it when the coyotes can't stay focused on what they are supposed to do? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Dennis, you are an evil man. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
i feel this post was one of the most informative on here and that is why i come here. its not to get mad at individuals its to learn from others with more knolage then ourself.
i really wish fish and cal could devulge more information then they did but i think i told things like they are i'm a seasoned coyote hunter that wants to know more still after 30 yrs.
i know a littal bout love[coyote hunting] and baby i can guess the rest. [little change to a lenard skinerd song].
yes maybe they are mad at me but i'm not mad just looking for more info.
i'm beyond help with spelling though some things i'll never learn
 
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I noticed a lot of reference to the chestpounding thing. You know the funny thing is this... If you read this entire thread Mr.fish only posted once. Once entirely on the site. It was as if his sole purpose in joining was to jeer Mr.Middleton and pound his chest as being a Pro. Then he didn't defend himself the rest of the time other persons did. See this is the funny thing I see in Professional athletes, hunters, fisherman. If you're a Pro that means at one time before your professional career you aspired to be a pro and looked up to those who were. Just hoping that the other pros would talk to you. (Think of how a child idolizes a particular sports hero) Why then, if you become a Professional Hunter would you be so arrogant as to use your position to scoff at someone who shares the same interest as you? I just think it's cool that we can get on here and share our stories. That's what I love about this site. The jokes, the stories, and the older wiser hunters who'll share with me their info; which I'm EXTREMELY greatful for /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif.

I'm a rookie myself, laugh, scoff, jeer, call me stupid, I'm comfortable enough with myself that I don't have to tear others accomplishments down or be a pro to make myself feel better. But why would taking one coyote, without the rest of the den hurt someone's ADC work? And if it did, why would it matter? The ADC agent gets paid to control the animals anyway. If the agent clears them completely wouldn't he/her be out of a job? We're all ignorant to certain things, ignorance is simply not knowing something. I'm ignorant to a lot of aspects of hunting, ADC work, women, life in general. However, Stupidity is CHOOSING to be ignorant.

In a positive light if Mr.Middleton only took the one and there are still others he helped Mr.Fish's job security and should be thanked rather than ridiculed.

Before I end this. I would like to state I've in no way shape or form meant any harm or offense to anyone. Even though it may not help. Usually after you say "no offense" the person your referring to is already offended anyway. Also, thank you and I can't say it enough to all the guys out there who participate here and share their info in a way to help myself and others become more educated and succesful hunters!!
 
I'm going to take a little ride up to Casper after work today. Maybe cmiddleton and I can take a closer look at the "scene of the crime", lol. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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You buy a young puppy and after bringing him home he runs into another room. So you pucker up and give a few kisses and the puppy "instinctively reacts" to the "distress sound" and comes running to you.



You're "almost" right.
The "instinctive reaction" is the puppy's curiosity is aroused, and he comes to investigate the sound.

The "learned behavior" is that you shower him with attention when he comes to that sound. He will respond the same way again in expectation of the same reward.

If you were to throw kisses and then completely ignore him when he comes into the room, the "learned behavior" will be to ignore that sound, as it offers nothing.

My point here is that "instinct" alone is like an airplane without a pilot. It's got a lot of potential, but it ain't goin' anywhere. It takes training to get it off the ground.
 
"Every one of us are born with the same amount of brain cells. Some of us become nuclear scientists and some become taxi drivers. It’s all a matter of training."


Hey NASA!

Are you saying with enough training I can be a Rocket Scientists or a Taxi driver?????? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Brent
 
according to the few i have done this for 30 yrs and must not have learned any thing but i know better so i don't let the few the proud the pro's get me down i just look for something they say to help me on my way to being good enough to earn the respect of them and everyone else here i'm here for one reason alone learn more about the sport i love the most.
i'm good enough for the ones who own the land and give me access and thats the only approval i need
 
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You're "almost" right.
The "instinctive reaction" is the puppy's curiosity is aroused, and he comes to investigate the sound.



No, I am right, the instinctive reaction is what kills the pup.

VirginiaCoyote Is there some sort of entitlement program going on here? Why would anyone have to share with you any thing about what it takes to kill a coyote? The people that really know how to do it are getting less by the day.


Yep, I've never shot a coyote, but this is what I'd do, is a very typical response on this board! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Proud to be a one time "Pompass know it all"
 
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Is there some sort of entitlement program going on here?

No

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Why would anyone have to share with you any thing about what it takes to kill a coyote?

No they don't but; I do GREATLY appreciate the seasoned hunters that do.




The people that really know how to do this (quote:proud to be a one time "Pompass know it all") are getting greater by the day...Or so it seems
 
Hi,I to have been at this for many a year.I have alot of land to take care of,where Iam the only one there.And over these years I have discover that there are people that do it for a living and some for sport.And the only "pro"that I belive is out there is not someone who gets up in the early hours of morning and stays late.I belive it is the one who is out there 24/7 and that my friends is that coyote that dies of old age.I don't care how long you have been at it he will still beat you.I belive one can learn from another hunter,but eveyone as his own way of doing thing.A good friend got me hooked on hunting coyoes over 30 years ago.But I don't do it just like he did and I to have started people out hunting coyotes.I don't care if they do it just like me or not.It is good to keep young and new people coming to hunting and to fireams.Cause if there or no new hunters then what happens when all us old farts are gone.So I say don't hold your cards to close to your vest or the life we all love will be gone for good.If someone misses something up you take the good with the bad. That my friends is call life,it sucks at time but you just deal with it an don't cry about it.Like I said I have been at this a long time so I don't care what people says about what I do or wright.So if this makes any one mad.....thats life deal with it.Thanks Clint.
 
I started reading this thread and I had to stop and go back to the first and start over, I cannot believe all the info and opinions that have been shared on this subject. I would never argue with a PRO, but it seems to me that cmiddleton did what was asked of him (don't blame him for trying to help out when he was asked) In oklahoma we hunt yotes year around, Prime reson #1 we have yotes (on the news) here where they are coming into a playground type park area (in town) right before dark to go through leftovers from the kids, all this while kids are still on the playground. If we can add one more to the fence line then I say do it, but then again I am not a pro. I lived in Wyoming as a 16 year old boy (my step dad ran a team on the pipeline for Aamaco) and I went hunting alot. The ranchers (my step dad knew) that were in the areas not far from Rock Springs and Green River always offered me the opportunity to hunt. I am sure glad I never (at least I hope I didn't)screwed anyone over while I was out hunting. That was 24 years ago and I am sure things have changes up there a ton. But one thing I will always remember about that state was how nice the people (ranchers) were and how they actually cared to let a 16 year old kid from Oklahoma hunt their land for free. God Bless men like them.


Rus
 
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