Coyotejunki
Well-known member
nevermind
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Rem 700 fires when safety is released...
- Thread starter muskieraider
- Start date
Originally Posted By: Stu Farish I still don't trust them. Neither does their designer.
Neither do I. While some of the FRS (fire on release of safety) incidents are the result of improperly adjusted triggers or poor maintenance, all are not.
In the mid to late ‘80’s, I purchased a new 40XC Rem. target rifle, which I understood at the time to have been built by the Rem. custom shop using the 700 action. My rifle had the bolt lock type safety, making it impossible to open the bolt with the safety locked. The very first round down the tube was an AD, more specifically, using Remington’s own acronym, an FRS. The trigger had not been adjusted and, my finger was no where near the trigger, yet the rifle discharged when the safety was pushed forward.
To understand how a Walker trigger (used in the 700's) can fail, see:
http://www.flinthillsdiesel.com/Remington-Walker.pdf
Many 700 owners have never heard of the safety problem and others choose to ignore it, since it has never happened to them, but this condition does exist and can occur at any time, so at the very least, watch yer muzzle!
Regards,
hm
Neither do I. While some of the FRS (fire on release of safety) incidents are the result of improperly adjusted triggers or poor maintenance, all are not.
In the mid to late ‘80’s, I purchased a new 40XC Rem. target rifle, which I understood at the time to have been built by the Rem. custom shop using the 700 action. My rifle had the bolt lock type safety, making it impossible to open the bolt with the safety locked. The very first round down the tube was an AD, more specifically, using Remington’s own acronym, an FRS. The trigger had not been adjusted and, my finger was no where near the trigger, yet the rifle discharged when the safety was pushed forward.
To understand how a Walker trigger (used in the 700's) can fail, see:
http://www.flinthillsdiesel.com/Remington-Walker.pdf
Many 700 owners have never heard of the safety problem and others choose to ignore it, since it has never happened to them, but this condition does exist and can occur at any time, so at the very least, watch yer muzzle!
Regards,
hm
2muchgun
New member
How about this clown? Nothing like giving a report on "unsafe firearms" with the bolt closed and your finger on the trigger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_8kLT7IRPg&feature=related
Belk is a joke, and the whole "report" is completely biased and agenda driven IMO. Too bad some of our fellow sportsmen fell for it.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc90OHpi2SM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_8kLT7IRPg&feature=related
Belk is a joke, and the whole "report" is completely biased and agenda driven IMO. Too bad some of our fellow sportsmen fell for it.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc90OHpi2SM&feature=related
2muchgun
New member
Originally Posted By: 2muchgun
My question is, how can they show in the video, multiple times, Remington 700s going off when the safety is disengaged? Yet when Jack Belk was asked in court, under oath, if has ever been able to induce an accidental discharge, his answer was "NO".
Seems awfully convenient, if not downright phenomenal, that they can capture multiple accidental discharges on camera for the TV show, yet their own so-called "expert" is unable to produce one.
IMO it is obvious the triggers were improperly adjusted intentionally for the sake of their so-called "documentary"............
How do you explain this?
My question is, how can they show in the video, multiple times, Remington 700s going off when the safety is disengaged? Yet when Jack Belk was asked in court, under oath, if has ever been able to induce an accidental discharge, his answer was "NO".
Seems awfully convenient, if not downright phenomenal, that they can capture multiple accidental discharges on camera for the TV show, yet their own so-called "expert" is unable to produce one.
IMO it is obvious the triggers were improperly adjusted intentionally for the sake of their so-called "documentary"............
How do you explain this?
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
It's all a publicity blitz to build support for a (lawyer relief) class action suit against Remington.
All triggers will do it under the right circumstances.
I use almost all custom triggers on my rifles and never pay the extra charge for a safety. A 'safety' is the worst thing ever put on a firearm. It gives people a false sense of security that should never be relied on.
All triggers will do it under the right circumstances.
I use almost all custom triggers on my rifles and never pay the extra charge for a safety. A 'safety' is the worst thing ever put on a firearm. It gives people a false sense of security that should never be relied on.
Coyotejunki
Well-known member
Sadly, too many people do not practice Safe firearms handling.
ozzy
New member
Originally Posted By: Tim Neitzkeozzy,
What's heavy to you ? Anything over 3.5# is heavy to me on a hunting rig.
If shooting paper or long range stuff anything over 1.5# is heavy. Hey Tim, anything over factory # is fine with me. I grew up with pull the trigger and reload, old school here.
What's heavy to you ? Anything over 3.5# is heavy to me on a hunting rig.
If shooting paper or long range stuff anything over 1.5# is heavy. Hey Tim, anything over factory # is fine with me. I grew up with pull the trigger and reload, old school here.
frozenbutt
New member
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunIMO it is obvious the triggers were improperly adjusted intentionally for the sake of their so-called "documentary"............
NO the media would NEVER do anything like that. They would never do it for ratings or money. lol
NO the media would NEVER do anything like that. They would never do it for ratings or money. lol
nuketheyote243
New member
A brand new gun problem might not be the same as one that has a short but decent track record.
The new gun may have had some issue relative to the assembly or parts, or other, that made it malfunction......it could very well have been independent of some reported design issue.
If your rifle shot 100 times with no problem and then, with no misadjustment or parts failure, and no contamination, had an AD, then I'd suspect a design problem.
Sorry man, worked in manufacturing and engineering, problems can happen to any product but most often they are not what they seem and the supposed problem often nonexistant, yet manufacturers take the items in, test and replace or change stuff out to keep the consumer or dealer happy.
Unless you did some Six Sigma deep dive then what you believe and what happened could be different.
Not saying your gun did not malfunction, just wondering what exactly caused it.
The new gun may have had some issue relative to the assembly or parts, or other, that made it malfunction......it could very well have been independent of some reported design issue.
If your rifle shot 100 times with no problem and then, with no misadjustment or parts failure, and no contamination, had an AD, then I'd suspect a design problem.
Sorry man, worked in manufacturing and engineering, problems can happen to any product but most often they are not what they seem and the supposed problem often nonexistant, yet manufacturers take the items in, test and replace or change stuff out to keep the consumer or dealer happy.
Unless you did some Six Sigma deep dive then what you believe and what happened could be different.
Not saying your gun did not malfunction, just wondering what exactly caused it.
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Originally Posted By: 2muchgunMy question is, how can they show in the video, multiple times, Remington 700s going off when the safety is disengaged? Yet when Jack Belk was asked in court, under oath, if has ever been able to induce an accidental discharge, his answer was "NO".
Seems awfully convenient, if not downright phenomenal, that they can capture multiple accidental discharges on camera for the TV show, yet their own so-called "expert" is unable to produce one.
IMO it is obvious the triggers were improperly adjusted intentionally for the sake of their so-called "documentary"............ How do you explain this?
As I stated, I have no dog in this fight (I no longer own any Remingtons) other than to hopefully promote safety. There is absolutely no argument that an improperly adjusted or dirty trigger ( anyone's trigger ), can fail. There is no argument that there are a lot of 700's out there. There also is no argument that the floating connector can fail to reset and even Mr. Walker suggested a fix for the problem (even if it does not exist)
.
Tens of thousands of folks have had no problem with their 700 triggers, some have, but it only takes one FRS to ruin your day, so my objective here is to inform 700 owners of the possibility that their rifle just might go off on release of safety. Watch yer muzzle!
As you so aptly stated, I, too am not brand loyal, but since I have personally experienced an FRS with a new 40XC straight out of the box, folks need to be aware of the potential for such failure even with properly maintained and unaltered triggers.
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunI hope people understand, I am not "brand loyal" to anyone. Put out a good product, and I will say so. Put out a bad one, and I will probably say so more than once.
Regards,
hm
Seems awfully convenient, if not downright phenomenal, that they can capture multiple accidental discharges on camera for the TV show, yet their own so-called "expert" is unable to produce one.
IMO it is obvious the triggers were improperly adjusted intentionally for the sake of their so-called "documentary"............ How do you explain this?
As I stated, I have no dog in this fight (I no longer own any Remingtons) other than to hopefully promote safety. There is absolutely no argument that an improperly adjusted or dirty trigger ( anyone's trigger ), can fail. There is no argument that there are a lot of 700's out there. There also is no argument that the floating connector can fail to reset and even Mr. Walker suggested a fix for the problem (even if it does not exist)
Tens of thousands of folks have had no problem with their 700 triggers, some have, but it only takes one FRS to ruin your day, so my objective here is to inform 700 owners of the possibility that their rifle just might go off on release of safety. Watch yer muzzle!
As you so aptly stated, I, too am not brand loyal, but since I have personally experienced an FRS with a new 40XC straight out of the box, folks need to be aware of the potential for such failure even with properly maintained and unaltered triggers.
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunI hope people understand, I am not "brand loyal" to anyone. Put out a good product, and I will say so. Put out a bad one, and I will probably say so more than once.
Regards,
hm
Originally Posted By: hm1996 Originally Posted By: Stu Farish I still don't trust them. Neither does their designer.
Neither do I. While some of the FRS (fire on release of safety) incidents are the result of improperly adjusted triggers or poor maintenance, all are not.
In the mid to late ‘80’s, I purchased a new 40XC Rem. target rifle, which I understood at the time to have been built by the Rem. custom shop using the 700 action. My rifle had the bolt lock type safety, making it impossible to open the bolt with the safety locked. The very first round down the tube was an AD, more specifically, using Remington’s own acronym, an FRS. The trigger had not been adjusted and, my finger was no where near the trigger, yet the rifle discharged when the safety was pushed forward.
To understand how a Walker trigger (used in the 700's) can fail, see:
http://www.flinthillsdiesel.com/Remington-Walker.pdf
Many 700 owners have never heard of the safety problem and others choose to ignore it, since it has never happened to them, but this condition does exist and can occur at any time, so at the very least, watch yer muzzle!
Regards,
hm
You might as well give it up. There are those out there who have taken in so much Remington kool-aid, they refuse to believe something like that could have ever happened to a Remington. The excuse is always the same.....trigger was dirty, neglected, or improperly adjusted. If that doesn't work they then state....anything mechanical can fail.
Neither do I. While some of the FRS (fire on release of safety) incidents are the result of improperly adjusted triggers or poor maintenance, all are not.
In the mid to late ‘80’s, I purchased a new 40XC Rem. target rifle, which I understood at the time to have been built by the Rem. custom shop using the 700 action. My rifle had the bolt lock type safety, making it impossible to open the bolt with the safety locked. The very first round down the tube was an AD, more specifically, using Remington’s own acronym, an FRS. The trigger had not been adjusted and, my finger was no where near the trigger, yet the rifle discharged when the safety was pushed forward.
To understand how a Walker trigger (used in the 700's) can fail, see:
http://www.flinthillsdiesel.com/Remington-Walker.pdf
Many 700 owners have never heard of the safety problem and others choose to ignore it, since it has never happened to them, but this condition does exist and can occur at any time, so at the very least, watch yer muzzle!
Regards,
hm
You might as well give it up. There are those out there who have taken in so much Remington kool-aid, they refuse to believe something like that could have ever happened to a Remington. The excuse is always the same.....trigger was dirty, neglected, or improperly adjusted. If that doesn't work they then state....anything mechanical can fail.
2muchgun
New member
It has nothing to do with whose name is on the rifle.
My take on it is, some of the triggers were improperly adjusted, some people had their fingers on the triggers when they took the safety off and either did not know it, or were too embarrassed to admit it.
Our "expert" Jack belk has admitted these very same facts under oath. He has also admitted under oath he has never been able to induce an accidental discharge of a 700 trigger. Never.
Funny how they can manage to produce all kinds of them for the TV camera, but not for the judge
My take on it is, some of the triggers were improperly adjusted, some people had their fingers on the triggers when they took the safety off and either did not know it, or were too embarrassed to admit it.
Our "expert" Jack belk has admitted these very same facts under oath. He has also admitted under oath he has never been able to induce an accidental discharge of a 700 trigger. Never.
Funny how they can manage to produce all kinds of them for the TV camera, but not for the judge
2muchgun
New member
Originally Posted By: hm1996Tens of thousands of folks have had no problem with their 700 triggers
Try over 5 million plus.
Remington was just awarded a couple more large military contracts. $12 million for some M24s, and $21-28 million for XM2010s.
ALL the rifles will retain the original Remington 700 trigger group.........
Try over 5 million plus.
Remington was just awarded a couple more large military contracts. $12 million for some M24s, and $21-28 million for XM2010s.
ALL the rifles will retain the original Remington 700 trigger group.........
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunIt has nothing to do with whose name is on the rifle.
My take on it is, some of the triggers were improperly adjusted, some people had their fingers on the triggers when they took the safety off and either did not know it, or were too embarrassed to admit it.
Our "expert" Jack belk has admitted these very same facts under oath. He has also admitted under oath he has never been able to induce an accidental discharge of a 700 trigger. Never.
Funny how they can manage to produce all kinds of them for the TV camera, but not for the judge
So, are you saying that the post by hm1996, where he had a FRS did not happen the way he says it did?
My take on it is, some of the triggers were improperly adjusted, some people had their fingers on the triggers when they took the safety off and either did not know it, or were too embarrassed to admit it.
Our "expert" Jack belk has admitted these very same facts under oath. He has also admitted under oath he has never been able to induce an accidental discharge of a 700 trigger. Never.
Funny how they can manage to produce all kinds of them for the TV camera, but not for the judge
So, are you saying that the post by hm1996, where he had a FRS did not happen the way he says it did?