Urban Coyotes

Yeah, I don't like them either. Mite infested ingrates.

My point, coyotes are quick learner's. Oppertunity only need be present. The rest is up to that individual coyote. Whether it attacks[humans], specifically children or toddler's.

Yrs ago, when we all had sighhounds. They all had similar behaviors @ times. But each one had it's own "personality" easily observed. Pecking order, they also were aware of who the alpha male & female were.
 
Quote:
I read with amazement about the thinking process of a coyote as well. That was a sad story about the coyote that became a vegan because he just gave up when hearing screams. Smart? Or is it conditioned behavior? LOL



Why thank you Jay in acknowledging my hypothetical situation is more amazing than some of the other hypothetical situations in this thread.

Quote:
First of all coyotes are lured to a specific area by their noses, by sight and by sound. If calling brings them in and they get no biscuit, what happens? It's been said that coyotes come to your calling location to investigate even after you leave, as long as 7 hours after you leave if I remember it correctly. If that's true then the effect that happens is that coyotes hang around. They may just happen to discover a new supper source while they are lingering too. Feeding is feeding whether the coyote scores or not.



I hope none of the guys whose property I am calling on read this. What if I call a property, nothing shows up and I don't at least shoot at the coyote that hears my screaming?

Did I just contribute to the problem he is having with coyotes on his property?

Lots of questions. Lots to learn.
 
A coyote is not close to homes and people for any other reason other then to eat... Coyotes are survivors for one reason and one reason only: adaptability! They learn that they can conserve valuable energy eating in and around houses. Does anyone think that a coyote will not learn how easy it is to eat from a garbage can? He don't have to run after it... he don't have to stalk and kill it. It's like a hog coming to chow time!

Put it to you this way... every Thursday night we have garbage night. What night do you think the raccoons appear on my porch? Do you think they are guessing? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif Conditioning of animals IS the biggest concern from 99.9% of all people who deal with wild animals. Ask them why they restrict the human contact to wounded animals that will be re-released after they are mended. Calling a coyote close to a house or a housing development over and over with no dyer consequence can and will give them a false sense of safety when dealing with human scent... period. You are only drawing them in closer to easy meals: cats, "ankle biting" dogs, and garbage will be found and now they have a sound that they can attach to an easy meal. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Urban sprawl can and will put people in contact with predators of all kinds. No one really minds until their little dog gets invited to it's "last meal" from a coyote. I just don't see the reason behind pulling coyotes in closer to homes by calling unless you are there to insert a lethal dose of one part copper / one part lead / one small polymer cone and at least 2800 foot per second injection? Why even chance it without the killing dose? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Good thread Jay... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
FWIW some Harvard profs who taught me to use case teaching, or case studies, told us to never make up a case. Use true, actual events. Hypotheticals lead to speculation and trouble. As soon as I got back from the course, my boss told me to make up a case to train a particular subject. The Harvard guys were right: it burned us.

The highest population densities of coyotes my entire lifetime has appeared to me to be in the edge of cities rather than out in the open uncultivated countryside. That was true in the early 60’s in Los Angeles and continues to be true in any city with which I am familiar. It was true before there was hardly anyone calling, and I don’t think it has anything to do with calling, urban or rural.

I don’t know why there are so many coyotes in town but my guess is that JAMaidens is right: food is abundant and easy to get compared to catching rabbits and mice in the wild. I don’t think it has to do so much with people moving into coyote territory as much as coyotes moving near people to sponge off the easy livin’.

This has nothing directly to say about calling or not calling influencing coyote danger to humans, just that there are lots of coyotes in the edge of most western towns and cities, so that’s where most coyote/human encounters will occur whether anyone calls those coyotes or not.
 
Quote:
I just don't see the reason behind pulling coyotes in closer to homes by calling unless you are there to insert a lethal dose of one part copper / one part lead / one small polymer cone and at least 2800 foot per second injection? Why even chance it without the killing dose?



The only documentation I've seen on calling Urban coyotes was to prove how effective a specific technique was and to demonstrate “typical” coyote behavior. In my honest opinion the only thing it demonstrated to me is exactly what we are talking about here, which is how conditioned coyotes will become to humans through constant interaction with them in close proximity.Which is not typical of Non urban coyotes.
The urban coyotes are already conditioned to associate free meals to human behavior such as the sound of a trash can, the sound of food pouring into a dish and such. What disturbs me most about the constant calling in urban areas besides the fact that there are no consequences to close human contact, is the fact that the caller is triggering the "KILL" instinct in those that respond. Said coyote is NOT responding to scavenge a meal, he is responding to kill that meal or kill the intruder that is causing his meal distress. Throw into that mix a small child wearing the new squeaky shoes {which sounds exactly like a coaxer}available for toddlers and you are asking for disaster.
If they are going to be called there needs to be some consequences.
BOOM /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Okanagan, I know why they are there. Joe Yarkin of the ASG&F Dept stated on TV that, because of 13 years of drought, there are more coyotes in urban areas than in the remote desert.
Clevenger says that there are an estimated 300,000 coyotes in Az. during recovery season. AZG&F tells me that they have no accurate census. The last record of harvest was 47,000 in 1997. That are just the REPORTED harvest. That means there is a staggering number of coyotes living in very close proximity to humans here. And yet there are only two or three isolated biting incidents each year. Wholesale slaughter of people hasn't occured and the sky is not falling after all.
Toddlers, because of their smell, sounds and size are most at risk but most parents keep a sharp eye out for their babies and don't let them run free, unsupervised. Not really a new or novel concept.
 
JA
Quote:
A coyote is not close to homes and people for any other reason other then to eat... Coyotes are survivors for one reason and one reason only: adaptability! They learn that they can conserve valuable energy eating in and around houses. Does anyone think that a coyote will not learn how easy it is to eat from a garbage can? He don't have to run after it... he don't have to stalk and kill it. It's like a hog coming to chow time!

Put it to you this way... every Thursday night we have garbage night. What night do you think the raccoons appear on my porch? Do you think they are guessing? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
-----------------------------------------------------------
RH
JA, the AZ authorities discovered the same thing. That is why ALL households in ALL cities in the metro area are provided with two wheeled trash bins, one for recyclables and one for disposables. They are coyote proof and the problem does not exist.
------------------------------------------------------------
JA
Conditioning of animals IS the biggest concern from 99.9% of all people who deal with wild animals. Ask them why they restrict the human contact to wounded animals that will be re-released after they are mended. Calling a coyote close to a house or a housing development over and over with no dyer consequence can and will give them a false sense of safety when dealing with human scent... period.
------------------------------------------------------------
RH
JA, where did you get these "facts"? What is your proof?
------------------------------------------------------------
JA
and now they have a sound that they can attach to an easy meal. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

------------------------------------------------------------
RH
That is another false conclusion. If they learn anything from repeated call ins it is that the sound represents the presence of an adult human and not an easy meal. Ever hear of "call shy" or "educated" coyotes?

-----------------------------------------------------------
JA
I just don't see the reason behind pulling coyotes in closer to homes by calling unless you are there to insert a lethal dose of one part copper / one part lead / one small polymer cone and at least 2800 foot per second injection? Why even chance it without the killing dose? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
-----------------------------------------------------------
RH
Simple solution-- Call them AWAY from the houses then.
------------------------------------------------------------
JA
Good thread Jay... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
-----------------------------------------------------------
RH
JA, I agree with that one. And his new sigline offers the most compelling argument why this is a non-issue.
 
Higgins,

Do you happen to know how many coyotes that estimate would figure, per sq mile in AZ?
------------------
"Attacks" per animal pop, vs, human pop?. What strikes me as interesting. Is, even on a "rare occasion". All it takes is the right animal, right circumstance right [prey] & an oppertunity. I figure that "instance" would be an 100% attack statistic.

I've read, even when a family of coyote sheep killers are killed. A matter of time later. More coyote sheep killer's fill in the void on the same area.

Were these new sheep killer's taught by their sheep killing adults from a neighboring area? Or suppose in the right circumstance. These "non-sheep killer's" viewed those sheep as an easy opportunity, et thought they would taste one.


edit; I might add, this same scenario. Happened just West of Haverhill, Iowa a few Winter's back. I killed the female alpha that held that section. She was pr'd up, with a large male. The male hung in that section the rest of the Winter. Next Winter he was not seen, no tracks all Winter from ANY coyote. Another yr passed, then my farmer's neighbor. Then had his sheep killed by coyotes. They?[or perhaps another coyote or coyote. Have started killing sheep on the next farmer's land, down the road.
 
Last edited:

Do you happen to know how many coyotes that estimate would figure, per sq mile in AZ?
------------------------------------------------------------
Kirby, I do not. AZG&F does not. Any estimate would be solely speculative anyway because, as Jarkin stated, there are more in the cities than in the desert. How many square miles of which cities would be included in the estimate? How many square miles of remote desert would be excluded?
 
Apples and oranges.

The question here is not whether there is an epidemic of coyote attacks, or the reasons why they are in urban areas.

The question is simply, if coyotes are conditioned to come to the call with no negative consequence, does it embolden them to come to the sound of a small child and because there is "Prey" there this time, an attack is more likely to ensue.

It seems clear, that coyotes in urban areas are more comfortable around humans, than a wild coyote.
My source for that information is personal experience, doing ADC and animal rescue work in large urban areas.

Not only are they more comfortable, they are more aggressive. Do we hear of attacks by coyotes in urban areas or wild areas?

National parks have many warnings both on the signs and in printed brochures advising not to feed the wildlife, simply because animals can be conditioned to accept an easy meal and often do not react favorably when the food supply runs out.

Training animals is at a very basic level, simply requiring a certain behavior to a specific stimulus.
Train the coyote to repeatedly come to a call is like running the electric can opener and having your house cat run in.

Does calling urban areas and not killing coyotes cause them to attack, I don't think so. Does it increase the risk because at some point it will trigger the "prey" response and the prey may be a small child, yep. Simple math. Come to the call often enough and there will be a meal.
 
Quote:
Said coyote is NOT responding to scavenge a meal, he is responding to kill that meal or kill the intruder that is causing his meal distress.



I think that is 100% speculative on your part. In a recent article in Predator Xtreme it stated that there are up to 7 different motivations that draw a coyote to a call. The 2 you listed, hunger and territorial issue, are just 2 of the total 7. If these coyotes coming into urban settings were in 'kill mode' as you stated, we'd have many more kids being bitten.
 
Quote:

Training animals is at a very basic level, simply requiring a certain behavior to a specific stimulus.
Train the coyote to repeatedly come to a call is like running the electric can opener and having your house cat run in.

Does calling urban areas and not killing coyotes cause them to attack, I don't think so. Does it increase the risk because at some point it will trigger the "prey" response and the prey may be a small child, yep. Simple math. Come to the call often enough and there will be a meal.



With all respect, your logic leads to a different conclusion: come to the call, don't get a meal, so quit coming to the call.

If you add: come to a call and get surprised/scared by a human adult, there is incentive to avoid that sound.

Most of us who have called a lot have seen animals that appear to know a call sound is suspect and deliberately avoid it and warn others to stay away with barks or body language. (I am thinking of the actions of specific animals that I recognized and called several times over a period of two years in an urban area).

In Canadian National Parks is the only place where I have seen coyotes panhandling people for food, in Yoho and Banff.
 
what happened to the 55 year old man in new mexico a couple week's ago that got killed by the cougar. the neighbor's were feeding it. then the one day it confronted the 55 year old man. did it want food and didnt get it so it killed the 55 year old man. what made it eat him. i wonder what triggered that.Rick
 
OK,

My .02's worth....

I am extra careful to not call coyotes in that I don't or can't kill.

Why? Because they become conditioned. Simple.

In the case of WHERE I call, the conditioning is negative towards the coyote, because I shoot them....OR shoot at them.
That incident causes coyotes to relate a negative experience from being called to a certain area with a certain sound.
Hence, the phrase "The coyotes there are called on, or they are used to being called."
We all know that. We see it every year.

NOW....Take calling coyotes in an urban environment.
If they have no negative incidents from being called in, then why would it register as a negative experience?
It wouldn't.
If the incident in the coyote's mind does not register either a positive or negative experience, it still conditions them, (for lack of a better word) to be more comforatable in an urban environment.

I think there is a progressive learning with coyotes that would make them not so wary of human contact.
Example:
If they DO get a meal, or a kill on a small animal within the zone of human contact, are they more likely to venture further into the urban environment?

Probably. As long as no negative experiences occur.

That is why animal control officers use rubber bullets on conditioned bears...It gives them a negative experience with human contact, & "condtions" them to not want that human contact.

Does calling urban coyotes "condition" them to be less fearful of human contact?

My experience & opinion lead me to believe...Yes, it does make them less wary of human contact.

Your milage may vary.

Barry
 
Okey Dokey OK. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I agree sort of. If the coyote comes to the call and nothing negative happens, I believe he will return. Do you think a wild coyote gets a meal every time he responds to a prey sound?

The parks discourage feeding not because it triggers attacks necessarily, but becuase it increase the risk of attack. Humans are not always smarter than coyotes.

Proof??/ Look at a fisherman. All day on the water. No fish. He still comes back, even though he doesn't get a fish every time.

My mileage differs from yours, as I have seen animals outside the parks conditioned to look to humans for food, and in one case of a coyote behaved as a dog catching a sandwich in the air. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Quote:
what happened to the 55 year old man in new mexico a couple week's ago that got killed by the cougar. the neighbor's were feeding it. then the one day it confronted the 55 year old man. did it want food and didnt get it so it killed the 55 year old man. what made it eat him. i wonder what triggered that.Rick





There is alot more to the story.

Man was mentally disabled. He would set out water for the cat. He had a makeshift shower under a rock overhang on a cliff. That is were the cat started to eat the man.
 
Back
Top