Coyotes can adapt to any environment. The ones living in our town, live in town. They don't come to town to eat. They live here. They hold up in drainage ditches, culverts and under mesquite trees during the day and come out in the evening and night. Sometimes I see them in the daylight, just not very often. I saw one a month or so ago, walking down the middle of the street in front of my house. I have also had them in my front yard when I came home late at night. They watched me pull into the garage and I had to chase them off after I got out of my truck. They are bold.
Urban Coyotes
- Thread starter Jay Nistetter
- Start date
Quote:
It's simple as Pavlov's Theory though.
Yes, but Pavlovs dog was rewarded with a positive experience. Coyote's called without harmful/lethal consequences is not a positive experience. At best it is neutral.
Stateing that calling(and not killing) urban coyotes increases the potential of coyote attacks is like saying that leaving my truck window down at night makes it rain.
It's simple as Pavlov's Theory though.
Yes, but Pavlovs dog was rewarded with a positive experience. Coyote's called without harmful/lethal consequences is not a positive experience. At best it is neutral.
Stateing that calling(and not killing) urban coyotes increases the potential of coyote attacks is like saying that leaving my truck window down at night makes it rain.
Jay Nistetter
New member
No but you can bet it will rain the day after you wash your truk.
It’s a simple question. Whether the dramatization is real or not you can bet your last dollar that the news media will mutate the circumstances to meet their agenda and pull at the heartstrings of the unknowing reader.
Urban Coyotes are less and less afraid of local traffic. They hang out on busy golf courses. And I think it’s pretty safe to assume that they are more accustomed to the human smell.
Why is it against the law to feed wild animals in the first place? As recent as two weeks ago (June 24, 2008) a New Mexico man was killed by a mountain lion. It is suspected that it was being fed for the purpose of taking photos? Whether it is true or not is beside the point. That’s what the news articles printed. Could this just as easily have been a coyote instead of a mountain lion in the near future? Bear? Wolf?
edited to add:
Could one of the latest incidents of coyotes grabbing children resulted in a tragedy had the parent been 30 seconds slower?
It’s a simple question. Whether the dramatization is real or not you can bet your last dollar that the news media will mutate the circumstances to meet their agenda and pull at the heartstrings of the unknowing reader.
Urban Coyotes are less and less afraid of local traffic. They hang out on busy golf courses. And I think it’s pretty safe to assume that they are more accustomed to the human smell.
Why is it against the law to feed wild animals in the first place? As recent as two weeks ago (June 24, 2008) a New Mexico man was killed by a mountain lion. It is suspected that it was being fed for the purpose of taking photos? Whether it is true or not is beside the point. That’s what the news articles printed. Could this just as easily have been a coyote instead of a mountain lion in the near future? Bear? Wolf?
edited to add:
Could one of the latest incidents of coyotes grabbing children resulted in a tragedy had the parent been 30 seconds slower?
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GEORGE ACKLEY
New member
Sorry you cant follow my logic,
I never said I had skills with communicating my thought .
But to imply that bad coyote \ people encounters will increase do to some guys videoing or studding coyotes instead of killing them , is off the wall to me.
All critters attack people, How is it that by calling and not killing coyotes acerbate there attacks?
you saying they get used to being around people that call them and don't shoot them makes them more fearless around people witch will lead them to forget there instincts and fear of people.
i don't see it .
how about the easy meals left in trash cans & small pets let out to roam un protected , I see this is what's bring coyote into town not that they don't fear man is that they like a easy meal more so .
It the guy that throwing food to the coyote for a better photo for his kids that is instilling the hole people = food thing. I can see the camo clad guy in the bush acerbate anything.
And frog,
i didn't get the hole
homey out of the big city /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
FIRST WHATS A HOMEY ?
I never said I had skills with communicating my thought .
But to imply that bad coyote \ people encounters will increase do to some guys videoing or studding coyotes instead of killing them , is off the wall to me.
All critters attack people, How is it that by calling and not killing coyotes acerbate there attacks?
you saying they get used to being around people that call them and don't shoot them makes them more fearless around people witch will lead them to forget there instincts and fear of people.
i don't see it .
how about the easy meals left in trash cans & small pets let out to roam un protected , I see this is what's bring coyote into town not that they don't fear man is that they like a easy meal more so .
It the guy that throwing food to the coyote for a better photo for his kids that is instilling the hole people = food thing. I can see the camo clad guy in the bush acerbate anything.
And frog,
i didn't get the hole
homey out of the big city /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
FIRST WHATS A HOMEY ?
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Bopeye
New member
Here in the east I don't see much difference in a urban coyote or a rural coyote. Unless the coyote is in the deep woods of the Appalachian range or similar areas, they are both seeing a ton of human activity.
Let the farmers around here start cutting hay, wheat, corn or whatever, the coyotes will be within several yards of the farm equipment eating grasshoppers, dead snakes, mice, injured rabbits and the list goes on. I'm fairly confident these coyotes have learned to equate the farmer with food in many situations.
This isn't much different than the urban coyote that is living off of humans trash, scraps, food, etc.
I've often thought about starting some of these farmers tractors and driving around letting the tractor be my "caller", Now that I said that I bet some will try it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Just wouldn't be the same to me.
Coyotes are predictable, but they are also individuals. Some are bolder than others, or naturally more curious or like many people, just plain mean. Trying to guess that will prove to be an exercise in futility.
Although I have never called Urban coyotes, I don't see how it would be any easier than calling the conditioned rural coyotes.
If you don't believe me, c'mon down when they are harvesting the bean fields and watch the coyotes come out like fleas on a dog when the farmer starts the tractor. Makes for one of the best distress calls I have ever seen. I think I'll put a "tractor" sound on my electronic caller. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
Let the farmers around here start cutting hay, wheat, corn or whatever, the coyotes will be within several yards of the farm equipment eating grasshoppers, dead snakes, mice, injured rabbits and the list goes on. I'm fairly confident these coyotes have learned to equate the farmer with food in many situations.
This isn't much different than the urban coyote that is living off of humans trash, scraps, food, etc.
I've often thought about starting some of these farmers tractors and driving around letting the tractor be my "caller", Now that I said that I bet some will try it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Just wouldn't be the same to me.
Coyotes are predictable, but they are also individuals. Some are bolder than others, or naturally more curious or like many people, just plain mean. Trying to guess that will prove to be an exercise in futility.
Although I have never called Urban coyotes, I don't see how it would be any easier than calling the conditioned rural coyotes.
If you don't believe me, c'mon down when they are harvesting the bean fields and watch the coyotes come out like fleas on a dog when the farmer starts the tractor. Makes for one of the best distress calls I have ever seen. I think I'll put a "tractor" sound on my electronic caller. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
GEORGE ACKLEY
New member
((tractor sound )) shshshshshs,,,,,,
dont let all the secrets out pal /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
dont let all the secrets out pal /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
Quote:
Whether the dramatization is real or not you can bet your last dollar that the news media will mutate the circumstances to meet their agenda and pull at the heartstrings of the unknowing reader.
Exactly. The concept defies logic(based on proposed causes),and mirrors a statement heard from the media.
I can hear it now; callers will be required to pay a calling credit(similar to proposed carbon credit). The funds will be used to compensate victims of coyote attacks, and study the issues of urban sprawl and coyote population growth /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
Quote:
edited to add:Could one of the latest incidents of coyotes grabbing children resulted in a tragedy had the parent been 30 seconds slower?
Ah, an 'if/but' statement. Anything is possible with these conjunctions. Another common tool of the media. From your edit we could draw the conclusion that the problem is not coyotes in urban areas, but rather overweight,out of shape, slow parents /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. We could blame McDonalds!
What if the parents had been 30 seconds earlier? We probably would have had urbanites wanting pictures of the beautiful wildlife, and signing petitions to ban trapping etc.
Whether the dramatization is real or not you can bet your last dollar that the news media will mutate the circumstances to meet their agenda and pull at the heartstrings of the unknowing reader.
Exactly. The concept defies logic(based on proposed causes),and mirrors a statement heard from the media.
I can hear it now; callers will be required to pay a calling credit(similar to proposed carbon credit). The funds will be used to compensate victims of coyote attacks, and study the issues of urban sprawl and coyote population growth /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
Quote:
edited to add:Could one of the latest incidents of coyotes grabbing children resulted in a tragedy had the parent been 30 seconds slower?
Ah, an 'if/but' statement. Anything is possible with these conjunctions. Another common tool of the media. From your edit we could draw the conclusion that the problem is not coyotes in urban areas, but rather overweight,out of shape, slow parents /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. We could blame McDonalds!
What if the parents had been 30 seconds earlier? We probably would have had urbanites wanting pictures of the beautiful wildlife, and signing petitions to ban trapping etc.
Jay Nistetter
New member
CrossJ
I like it. You sold me.
I like it. You sold me.
Rod Haydel
New member
I see many contributing factors not just calling but since this is the topic...in answer to positive reinforcement to Pavlov....like I said earlier who knows what positive events took place after the coyote moved on. In most cases certainly not a negative experience so what is the deterrent.
"At best it is neutral." Put your truck in Neutral and in most situations it's still gonna roll. Why not use PARK?
So by initially calling you are conditioning the animal to the neutral situation that at some point in time can produce positive reinforcement.
Ever faked a dog out as you where throwing something? ….then did it again and again? …all neutral situations right? Eventually he won’t run after it for a short period of time. Walk in the house and what does the dog do…he searches out the area perceived to have his prize. Try it the next day and see what happens. He will again run look for the object. He will fall for every time. WHY? No negative reinforcement.
Now use the same scenario except this time the guy is throwing a bumper to train a lab to retrieve. The trainer applies negative reinforcement to communicate an undesired response of “breaking”. The dog eventually learns to retrieve on the owner’s command and not upon the throw of the bumper.
Now factor in food and the desire in the animal’s mindset is increased. Try throwing a piece of steak out. Even for a trained dog ….”what/ if”….bet he goes for it.
If you have your dinner on a picnic table why throw something for your dog? Especially in that direction whether for real or not? Would he have find your dinner on his own before you got back to the table...maybe. Does your action acerbate the situation...absolutly.
"At best it is neutral." Put your truck in Neutral and in most situations it's still gonna roll. Why not use PARK?
So by initially calling you are conditioning the animal to the neutral situation that at some point in time can produce positive reinforcement.
Ever faked a dog out as you where throwing something? ….then did it again and again? …all neutral situations right? Eventually he won’t run after it for a short period of time. Walk in the house and what does the dog do…he searches out the area perceived to have his prize. Try it the next day and see what happens. He will again run look for the object. He will fall for every time. WHY? No negative reinforcement.
Now use the same scenario except this time the guy is throwing a bumper to train a lab to retrieve. The trainer applies negative reinforcement to communicate an undesired response of “breaking”. The dog eventually learns to retrieve on the owner’s command and not upon the throw of the bumper.
Now factor in food and the desire in the animal’s mindset is increased. Try throwing a piece of steak out. Even for a trained dog ….”what/ if”….bet he goes for it.
If you have your dinner on a picnic table why throw something for your dog? Especially in that direction whether for real or not? Would he have find your dinner on his own before you got back to the table...maybe. Does your action acerbate the situation...absolutly.
My thoughts on this post:
If a coyote is so easily conditioned, wouldn't calling in the coyote for fun tend to make them less aggressive. Picture this- a coyote hears a dying rabbit, come to investigate, looking for a meal. There is none. He does it again the next week. again no meal. Since he is so intellectual, he would soon decide what is the use. He hears a baby crying in a basket floating down the river wrapped in reeds and says to himself "Self, I could go get that baby crying in the basket made of reeds but I think I will just sit here, it is probably another hoax played out by that stinky guy with all the pee mixtures again. I am not stupid enough to fall for that again"
Another scenario: two coyotes come in to a call. one dies on the spot and the other runs of to a far away location across the open field. He stops and looks back. The shooter decides to turn him to a pillar of salt for looking back. The distance is misread. Instead of turning to a pillar of salt, the coyote looses a front leg just below the knee joint. A couple weeks pass and the three legged coyote hears the same screams being emitted from the same tree in the same field. What would be this coyotes response?
I have had this happen on two occassions.
Another scenario: two guys sitting in a tree line and call in 4 coyotes. two died, two lived to tell all their friends not to fall for the screaming in that area due to a short expected life span. Exactly 7 days later, the same sounds are emitted from the same field just on the other side(app 150 yards) due to wind changes.
I realize these are not indicative of others results. After all I am in no mans land here. I am not western where all the coyotes come in to squealing brake shoes, and I am not eastern because I am 150 miles from the mighty Mississippi River the borderline of the highly evolved intelligent scholarly educated coyotes of the east. (that somehow have not figured out how yet to cross the river)
So here I sit wondering how a bunch of coyote hunters would rather argue inane scenarios than to take what they have learned and experienced and inform the new guys to these result. My way is not the only way. I kill coyotes in my area because "I Understand where they are AND I understand Why they are there"
If a coyote is so easily conditioned, wouldn't calling in the coyote for fun tend to make them less aggressive. Picture this- a coyote hears a dying rabbit, come to investigate, looking for a meal. There is none. He does it again the next week. again no meal. Since he is so intellectual, he would soon decide what is the use. He hears a baby crying in a basket floating down the river wrapped in reeds and says to himself "Self, I could go get that baby crying in the basket made of reeds but I think I will just sit here, it is probably another hoax played out by that stinky guy with all the pee mixtures again. I am not stupid enough to fall for that again"
Another scenario: two coyotes come in to a call. one dies on the spot and the other runs of to a far away location across the open field. He stops and looks back. The shooter decides to turn him to a pillar of salt for looking back. The distance is misread. Instead of turning to a pillar of salt, the coyote looses a front leg just below the knee joint. A couple weeks pass and the three legged coyote hears the same screams being emitted from the same tree in the same field. What would be this coyotes response?
I have had this happen on two occassions.
Another scenario: two guys sitting in a tree line and call in 4 coyotes. two died, two lived to tell all their friends not to fall for the screaming in that area due to a short expected life span. Exactly 7 days later, the same sounds are emitted from the same field just on the other side(app 150 yards) due to wind changes.
I realize these are not indicative of others results. After all I am in no mans land here. I am not western where all the coyotes come in to squealing brake shoes, and I am not eastern because I am 150 miles from the mighty Mississippi River the borderline of the highly evolved intelligent scholarly educated coyotes of the east. (that somehow have not figured out how yet to cross the river)
So here I sit wondering how a bunch of coyote hunters would rather argue inane scenarios than to take what they have learned and experienced and inform the new guys to these result. My way is not the only way. I kill coyotes in my area because "I Understand where they are AND I understand Why they are there"
Bopeye
New member
Glad you cleared that up Randy. I thought you might be in Egypt with the "baby in the reed basket", but then the looking back "pillar of salt" made me think you might be somewhere on the plains near the Dead Sea or Jordan.
Come to find out you were just in Louisiana the whole time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Sounds heavenly. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Come to find out you were just in Louisiana the whole time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Sounds heavenly. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Quote:
Kinda looked like there was a 2nd coyote if he's have held out a bit more.
May have been Hyper. That coyote showed up within seconds of the first sound. As it entered the field I lipsqueaked to get the shooters attention and point it out. after he got on it I kept an eye on the trees looking for the second one but it never showed. That shooter was a local guy stationed now in Alaska with an Airborne unit. He was home on leave from Iraq. We made two stands that evening and on the first stand I called in a double and he got one of them. A single around here will look back often times and a second never shows up. I think they may be surveying the situation and trying to get a fix on how far out in the open they are. After that one went down, I continued caling with some Ki-Yis mixed in and nothing showed. I reckon, only the coyote knows for sure whether there was another one.
Kinda looked like there was a 2nd coyote if he's have held out a bit more.
May have been Hyper. That coyote showed up within seconds of the first sound. As it entered the field I lipsqueaked to get the shooters attention and point it out. after he got on it I kept an eye on the trees looking for the second one but it never showed. That shooter was a local guy stationed now in Alaska with an Airborne unit. He was home on leave from Iraq. We made two stands that evening and on the first stand I called in a double and he got one of them. A single around here will look back often times and a second never shows up. I think they may be surveying the situation and trying to get a fix on how far out in the open they are. After that one went down, I continued caling with some Ki-Yis mixed in and nothing showed. I reckon, only the coyote knows for sure whether there was another one.
GEORGE ACKLEY
New member
Kinda looked like a dead one there on the ground /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
cool video Randy, how was fishing pal.
jltd
New member
Now I am no expert and will never claim to be, my thoughts on this are simple a coyote is a wild animal making it purley a creature of instinct. I do not belive a coyote has the ability to reason or to make logical decisions. I do not think a coyote posses a long term memory which would negate any ability to be conditioned either positively or negatively to a stimulus. Just my opinion.
rockinbbar
New member
Quote:
Now I am no expert and will never claim to be, my thoughts on this are simple a coyote is a wild animal making it purley a creature of instinct. I do not belive a coyote has the ability to reason or to make logical decisions. I do not think a coyote posses a long term memory which would negate any ability to be conditioned either positively or negatively to a stimulus. Just my opinion.
They have a memory, and an ability to act on it.
Coyotes are among the smartest animals on our continent.
Their ability to reason & put experience to their best use is exemplified by trying to call an area that has coyotes in it that have been called & educated before. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Coyotes are hard to catch in a trap for the same reason, if it were purely instinct it would be lots easier.
They are cautious, wary & smart. The older they get, the smarter they become.
That's why the young ones call in more readily than the older ones. They have learned. And they remember.
They also remember where and how they come by an easy meal.
Now I am no expert and will never claim to be, my thoughts on this are simple a coyote is a wild animal making it purley a creature of instinct. I do not belive a coyote has the ability to reason or to make logical decisions. I do not think a coyote posses a long term memory which would negate any ability to be conditioned either positively or negatively to a stimulus. Just my opinion.
They have a memory, and an ability to act on it.
Coyotes are among the smartest animals on our continent.
Their ability to reason & put experience to their best use is exemplified by trying to call an area that has coyotes in it that have been called & educated before. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Coyotes are hard to catch in a trap for the same reason, if it were purely instinct it would be lots easier.
They are cautious, wary & smart. The older they get, the smarter they become.
That's why the young ones call in more readily than the older ones. They have learned. And they remember.
They also remember where and how they come by an easy meal.
Hyperwrx
New member
Quote:
Quote:
Kinda looked like there was a 2nd coyote if he's have held out a bit more.
May have been Hyper. That coyote showed up within seconds of the first sound. As it entered the field I lipsqueaked to get the shooters attention and point it out. after he got on it I kept an eye on the trees looking for the second one but it never showed. That shooter was a local guy stationed now in Alaska with an Airborne unit. He was home on leave from Iraq. We made two stands that evening and on the first stand I called in a double and he got one of them. A single around here will look back often times and a second never shows up. I think they may be surveying the situation and trying to get a fix on how far out in the open they are. After that one went down, I continued caling with some Ki-Yis mixed in and nothing showed. I reckon, only the coyote knows for sure whether there was another one.
Hey I didn't know that was you. I recognize those 2 sounds. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Nice shooting by your friend.
Quote:
Kinda looked like there was a 2nd coyote if he's have held out a bit more.
May have been Hyper. That coyote showed up within seconds of the first sound. As it entered the field I lipsqueaked to get the shooters attention and point it out. after he got on it I kept an eye on the trees looking for the second one but it never showed. That shooter was a local guy stationed now in Alaska with an Airborne unit. He was home on leave from Iraq. We made two stands that evening and on the first stand I called in a double and he got one of them. A single around here will look back often times and a second never shows up. I think they may be surveying the situation and trying to get a fix on how far out in the open they are. After that one went down, I continued caling with some Ki-Yis mixed in and nothing showed. I reckon, only the coyote knows for sure whether there was another one.
Hey I didn't know that was you. I recognize those 2 sounds. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Nice shooting by your friend.