EJ Reichenbach
New member
I would recommended the JB bore paste and or the Montana extreme copper cream.
Keyholing suddenly! Ahhh! 17Rem...
- Thread starter DiRTY DOG
- Start date
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGI will junk it before I clean it every 20 rounds. No thanks!
I ordered a chamber plug, more brushes, and Montana Extreme to try a deep cleaning. If that doesn't fix it, I will be purchasing a new barrel, perhaps in a different caliber, and get rid of my 17Rem stash of bullets n powder.
I understand your frustration, but a good 17 barrel is a real joy to own and shoot.
I guess I've been very lucky all these years. So far I've not gotten a bad shooting 17 Rem.
I ordered a chamber plug, more brushes, and Montana Extreme to try a deep cleaning. If that doesn't fix it, I will be purchasing a new barrel, perhaps in a different caliber, and get rid of my 17Rem stash of bullets n powder.
I understand your frustration, but a good 17 barrel is a real joy to own and shoot.
I guess I've been very lucky all these years. So far I've not gotten a bad shooting 17 Rem.
joed
New member
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGI will junk it before I clean it every 20 rounds. No thanks!
A long time ago when Remington first brought out the first .17 Remingtons I purchased one.
The best I could get out of mine were 1 inch groups on occasion, and only on a day when the wind was no more than 1 or 2 mph. Performance depended on temperature, humidity and wind. The gun would shoot 1" groups one day and over 2" the next.
Ended up selling it after 2 seasons and swore I'd never try a .17 cal again.
I remember the manual said the barrel needed cleaning every 25 rounds. It said to at least wire brush if I remember correctly. I stuck to those rules as I remember accuracy fell off quickly. And boy were .17 cal cleaning rods hard to get back than.
But all the Remington heavy barrel rifles I've owned came with those same instructions about cleaning. I gave up on abasive bore cleaners and only use Sweets now to get copper out. I'm sure I hurried wear on one of my rifles useing JB paste.
A long time ago when Remington first brought out the first .17 Remingtons I purchased one.
The best I could get out of mine were 1 inch groups on occasion, and only on a day when the wind was no more than 1 or 2 mph. Performance depended on temperature, humidity and wind. The gun would shoot 1" groups one day and over 2" the next.
Ended up selling it after 2 seasons and swore I'd never try a .17 cal again.
I remember the manual said the barrel needed cleaning every 25 rounds. It said to at least wire brush if I remember correctly. I stuck to those rules as I remember accuracy fell off quickly. And boy were .17 cal cleaning rods hard to get back than.
But all the Remington heavy barrel rifles I've owned came with those same instructions about cleaning. I gave up on abasive bore cleaners and only use Sweets now to get copper out. I'm sure I hurried wear on one of my rifles useing JB paste.
RePete
New member
Originally Posted By: deflaveThat makes two of us.
Travis
Make that three.
I rebarreled my 700 Classic after about 1000 rnds but it never did shoot better than moa so I was looking for a reason anyway.
Like Jim said, "a well made 17cal barrel is a true joy".
One of my PN barrels has well over 3000rnds and still shoots straight and cleans up easily.
PS,,,, all that copper didn't get there overnight so don't be to hard on the cartridge or rifle.
There's plenty of blame to go around.
Not that you did any thing wrong but just maybe those foaming "magic elixors" aren't all that after all.
Travis
Make that three.
I rebarreled my 700 Classic after about 1000 rnds but it never did shoot better than moa so I was looking for a reason anyway.
Like Jim said, "a well made 17cal barrel is a true joy".
One of my PN barrels has well over 3000rnds and still shoots straight and cleans up easily.
PS,,,, all that copper didn't get there overnight so don't be to hard on the cartridge or rifle.
There's plenty of blame to go around.
Not that you did any thing wrong but just maybe those foaming "magic elixors" aren't all that after all.
EJ Reichenbach
New member
Originally Posted By: deflaveMaybe CZ cut this one with a spoon?
Travis
Seems weird, usually cz craftsmanship is some of the best, maybe the smith was hungover that day.
Travis
Seems weird, usually cz craftsmanship is some of the best, maybe the smith was hungover that day.
RePete
New member
Originally Posted By: joed
Ended up selling it after 2 seasons and swore I'd never try a .17 cal again.
Originally Posted By: joed
But all the Remington heavy barrel rifles I've owned came with those same instructions about cleaning. I gave up on abasive bore cleaners and only use Sweets now to get copper out. I'm sure I hurried wear on one of my rifles useing JB paste.
Huh?
Guess you changed your mind eah?
I love it though.
A month ago the 17Rem was the darling everyone loved or wanted and now that one problem's been reported the nay-sayers come out of the wood work and can't wait to pile on.
Two months from now we'll go through the whole thing all over again. LOL
ARCOREY
New member
No chance of me giving mine up Charlie. Factory 18.5" pencil barrel and have yet to clean it in just over 250rnds. Still below .5" at 100yds. Have enough components set back to possibly torch the barrel, all 25gr. HP's
. To say I love my 17rem would be an understatement. When it torches, I'm calling PAC-NOR and having it put back the way she is.
Predburner
New member
Can you shoot your way out of it.....???
DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: RePete
PS,,,, all that copper didn't get there overnight so don't be to hard on the cartridge or rifle.
There's plenty of blame to go around.
Not that you did any thing wrong but just maybe those foaming "magic elixors" aren't all that after all. I only used foaming Wipe Out once, and that was recently. All the other cleanings so far have included both Shooter's Choice and Sweet's, which I thought was supposed to be a pretty good way to do it. Certainly more thourough than 90% of rifle shooters ever thought about trying. I guess it's not aggressive enough for my rifle, and I guess some of the "dreaded 17Rem myths" hold true for my barrel. I've only fired this rifle about 550 times and I've "cleaned it thouroughly" with SC and Sweets about every 75-100 rounds. Hardly neglected. My new cleaning supplies are on order, sure hope that resolves my problem. I do appreciate all the help and advice.
PS,,,, all that copper didn't get there overnight so don't be to hard on the cartridge or rifle.
There's plenty of blame to go around.
Not that you did any thing wrong but just maybe those foaming "magic elixors" aren't all that after all. I only used foaming Wipe Out once, and that was recently. All the other cleanings so far have included both Shooter's Choice and Sweet's, which I thought was supposed to be a pretty good way to do it. Certainly more thourough than 90% of rifle shooters ever thought about trying. I guess it's not aggressive enough for my rifle, and I guess some of the "dreaded 17Rem myths" hold true for my barrel. I've only fired this rifle about 550 times and I've "cleaned it thouroughly" with SC and Sweets about every 75-100 rounds. Hardly neglected. My new cleaning supplies are on order, sure hope that resolves my problem. I do appreciate all the help and advice.
DoubleUp
Well-known member
DD, I certainly don't have the experience or knowledge that many of these guys have with the 17 Rem. I've only been shooting my CZ since May, but something in your first post caught my eye. The problems with the terrible groups and keyholing appear to have started after you fired the decent group of 20 vmax over 25 grs. of IMR 8208.
In my rifle at least, that load would put me somewhere between 4,350 and 4,400 fps. I'm thinking that at that speed and even though the group shot well you may have stripped a lot of copper off those bullets and really fouled the bore. I haven't shot any 4320, but some of these guys indicate that your load appears to be pushing the 25's really fast as well.
If you can get it cleaned out and you surely will, then it might help to slow the speed some.
In my rifle at least, that load would put me somewhere between 4,350 and 4,400 fps. I'm thinking that at that speed and even though the group shot well you may have stripped a lot of copper off those bullets and really fouled the bore. I haven't shot any 4320, but some of these guys indicate that your load appears to be pushing the 25's really fast as well.
If you can get it cleaned out and you surely will, then it might help to slow the speed some.
Quote:I love it though.
A month ago the 17Rem was the darling everyone loved or wanted and now that one problem's been reported the nay-sayers come out of the wood work and can't wait to pile on.
Two months from now we'll go through the whole thing all over again. LOL
You are right Charlie................its a repeated cycle that seems to never end.
I don't know how long you've owned the rifle DD, but if the warranty is still in effect I would be sending it back to them, otherwise it would be wearing a new 17 Rem. barrel.
I can't see that you are doing anything wrong in your loading or in your components. I've under loaded and over loaded some of my 17's in the past with never having a keyhole problem. If my primers were cratered a bit (such as yours appear to be) and my loads were still within book specs. then I sent the bolts off to Gre Tan to have firing pin bushings installed. That always cured that problem and I might add that every one of my Remingtons required it done.
Oops!
I think I said I was going to set this one out.
Now about that Thai hooker covered in gin.............
A month ago the 17Rem was the darling everyone loved or wanted and now that one problem's been reported the nay-sayers come out of the wood work and can't wait to pile on.
Two months from now we'll go through the whole thing all over again. LOL
You are right Charlie................its a repeated cycle that seems to never end.
I don't know how long you've owned the rifle DD, but if the warranty is still in effect I would be sending it back to them, otherwise it would be wearing a new 17 Rem. barrel.
I can't see that you are doing anything wrong in your loading or in your components. I've under loaded and over loaded some of my 17's in the past with never having a keyhole problem. If my primers were cratered a bit (such as yours appear to be) and my loads were still within book specs. then I sent the bolts off to Gre Tan to have firing pin bushings installed. That always cured that problem and I might add that every one of my Remingtons required it done.
Oops!
Now about that Thai hooker covered in gin.............
What about fire lapping, moly coated bullets, and/or dyna coating as others have suggested? Plus slowing the velocity down a bit may be helpful too. I guess the sure cure without a lot of special attention to detail will be a new properly rifled barrel with a slick non fouling bore.
Dirty Dog,
I've sent a CZ rimfire back to the factory for repair. They did a great job. Check Rimfire Central, their quality control has a great reputation. They paid my shipping too. Can't say that about a certain American company. Call the Kansas headquarters and don't look back, they will fix it. That or a gunsmith with a borescope and you will have your answer. No use wrangling hands thinking about it. The end.
I've sent a CZ rimfire back to the factory for repair. They did a great job. Check Rimfire Central, their quality control has a great reputation. They paid my shipping too. Can't say that about a certain American company. Call the Kansas headquarters and don't look back, they will fix it. That or a gunsmith with a borescope and you will have your answer. No use wrangling hands thinking about it. The end.
DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: DoubleUpDD, I certainly don't have the experience or knowledge that many of these guys have with the 17 Rem. I've only been shooting my CZ since May, but something in your first post caught my eye. The problems with the terrible groups and keyholing appear to have started after you fired the decent group of 20 vmax over 25 grs. of IMR 8208.
In my rifle at least, that load would put me somewhere between 4,350 and 4,400 fps. I'm thinking that at that speed and even though the group shot well you may have stripped a lot of copper off those bullets and really fouled the bore. I haven't shot any 4320, but some of these guys indicate that your load appears to be pushing the 25's really fast as well.
If you can get it cleaned out and you surely will, then it might help to slow the speed some. I let my rifle choose the load, with accuracy being the goal. Velocity is not even a consideration for me in 17Rem although I would prefer slower speeds due to reduced fouling etc. My loads are withing published load data:
20 Vmax - 8208 XBR
Min: 24.0 gr at 4138 fps
Max: 25.5 gr at 4378 fps
I'm only at 25.0 gr which should put me around 4300 fps.
In my rifle at least, that load would put me somewhere between 4,350 and 4,400 fps. I'm thinking that at that speed and even though the group shot well you may have stripped a lot of copper off those bullets and really fouled the bore. I haven't shot any 4320, but some of these guys indicate that your load appears to be pushing the 25's really fast as well.
If you can get it cleaned out and you surely will, then it might help to slow the speed some. I let my rifle choose the load, with accuracy being the goal. Velocity is not even a consideration for me in 17Rem although I would prefer slower speeds due to reduced fouling etc. My loads are withing published load data:
20 Vmax - 8208 XBR
Min: 24.0 gr at 4138 fps
Max: 25.5 gr at 4378 fps
I'm only at 25.0 gr which should put me around 4300 fps.
