Keyholing suddenly! Ahhh! 17Rem...

DiRTY DOG

DiRTY DOG

Well-known member
This has me baffled. CZ 17Rem purchased new in Jan, have fired about 500 rounds so far. Topped with a VX-3.

It shot pretty good right out of the gate but I saw some vertical stringing so I bedded the action with Devcon while I waited for Leupold to customize my turrets.
photo17_zps4d8c9d55.jpg

Seemed to work. Day to day grouping was somewhat inconsistent, one day it shot great, the next just ok. Killed a bunch of critters with it anyways.

I anneal after every load, and FL size just barely bumping the shoulder. Trim every time too, VLD chamfer, all that. Best load I've found so far is:

Hornady 25gr HP
24.7gr IMR 4320
coal 2.165"
CCI BR4

Yesterday I went to test a load using the 20gr Vmax. It shot just ok, but one load stuck out using 25.0gr 8202 XBR:
photo_zps9d72420b.jpg


So I loaded more and went back out the next day to prove that load, after I cleaned the bore. Shooter's Choice on a jag, followed by 10 bronze brush passes. Then Wipe Out for an hour. Then back to Shooter's Choice, then an overnight gig of Wipe Out just for kicks. Carb cleaner between rounds. The bore was somewhat dirty since I had fired maybe 75 rounds through it since the last cleaning.
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Took 5 fouling shots first since the barrel was so clean. It shot HORRIBLE! 3"-4" groups repeatedly, some off the paper. What?! Prone from a Harris bipod, rear bean bag, 80 degrees, 3-5 mph wind full value. How could the same exact load shoot so well one day, and so horrible the very next day?

I loaded up my trusty hunting load 25gr HP and this is what I got:
photo_zpse7a8b194.jpg


What!? This is getting crazy! Perhaps I screwed up the hand loads? I went home and carefully reviewed my notes and previous targets. Then I loaded fresh rounds using my RCBS Chargemaster. Same exact recipe as what worked before.

This morning's results? More keyholing. ??? These are rounds 46-51 since the last cleaning yesterday.
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The bore doesn't appear too dirty, it has exactly 51 rounds down the tube at this point since cleaning. Crown looks the same as it did new:
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Barrel is free floated from my bedding job:
July182013099b_zps754aaec9.jpg


Bolt face looks dirty from grease but looks like the day I got it:
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Brass/primers
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Case mouths, 2x fired brass, annealed every reload.
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If anybody has any clue what changed to suddenly cause this, I'm all ears. This has me completely baffled.
 
This could get good till "we" figure it out! No idea with 20 grainers. OT, it that a split in the brass I see on the piece on the right??
 
This is the first time it's ever keyholed, but it has been rather inconsistant day to day since I got it. That's why I'm STILL working up loads 7 months after getting it. It has been frustrating to say the least. This keyholing really has my head spinning. I'm about ready to wrap this barrel around a tree and move on to something more reliable. My Savage is deadly consistant every day, never had any of these kinds of issues with any other guns.

Is my barrel suddenly shot to crap?!
 
Originally Posted By: Mike BThis could get good till "we" figure it out! No idea with 20 graines. OT, it that a split in the brass I see on the piece on the right?? I photographed 3 cases at random, yes it appears to be a slight split, first one so far.
 
Id run a bore scope through it if you have access to one.
If you close Cheyenne Id run my scope through it for you.
 
Had the exact same thing happen to me with my .17 Rem. My final conclusion was the rifle was fine, and the box of bullets were f'd.

Threw the bullets away never had another problem.

Do you have another box to try?



Travis
 
The 25gr HP's I shot yesterday were from a different lot than the ones I shot this morning. I made sure of that before I loaded them to eliminate that possibility.

That wouldn't explain why the 20gr Vmax shot ok one day and horrible the next day (same box of bullets).
 
Years ago a friend bought a 17 Rem like mine to hunt coyotes with. He always tried to achieve the ultimate accuracy and would try everything from just neck sizing to turning necks and different neck tensions.

One day at the range, using 25gr Bergers or Hornady HP's, I don't remember, he got groups similar to yours and he was using some extreme neck tension.

We really don't know for sure what caused it. Maybe the neck tension scraped off some of the jackets, I dunno...

He went back to plain old RCBS FL dies, did a thorough cleaning, and the problem never came back.

Wish I had the answer?
 
Only two things I can think of is your case is taking some material off the base of your bullets or there is grass in between your muzzle and the target.



Travis
 
That is some of the prettiest/ugliest keyholing that i have ever seen. Either the bore is too big or worn out, full of copper, or the bullets are too small in diameter or too long. Clean the bore well and try some lighter/shorter bullets. Good luck.
 
Is it possible my barrel is so fouled with copper after only 20-30 shots of 20gr V-max that it caused this horrible accuracy followed by keyholes at 40-50 rounds? Remember, I cleaned the bore "super good" with Wipe Out 2x plus 2x with SC immediately before this problem started.

Is the dreaded myth true about 17Rem's requiring cleaning every 15-20 rounds?!

I do have Sweet's 7.62, it's what I have always used in the past until I recently picked up this can of foaming Wipe Out I keep hearing about. I do a fairly good job of cleaning my bores correctly with Sweet's and SC, using a single piece coated rod and 20+ patches, and never letting the two chemicals mix etc. I do it "by the book" best I can.

Is my problem simply caused by massive copper buildup?! I can super clean the bore using Sweet's but I won 't make it back to the range for a couple days.
 
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