Keyholing suddenly! Ahhh! 17Rem...


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If there were an easy answer for the OP than this thread wouldn't have gone on for pages. We are all just spitballing some ideas here.

If it were my rifle, I would first clean the h*ll out of it. Then I would shoot some factory ammo through it to rule out the reloads as a variable. If the keyholing still happens with factory ammo, then I would be calling CZ about a barrell issue. With a round count of only 50 rounds this is essentially a new gun.

Spitballin does wonders sometimes. Workin on a farm we're experts at nothing but need to figure out almost everything. Wasn't really saying the carbon ring would be the cause just something that jumped out at me. In my case it doesn't cause tumbling but it ups the pressures on my tight neck chamber.

 
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Spitballing is great. But you have to have a clue to do it.

The man's case has been clearly outlined and folks are posting about bedding technique and twist rates. Good God. You could get a guess like that at the gun counter.



Travis
 
I vote copper fouled barrel, you need some kind of copper remover, not just carb cleaner, i like to use Flitz polish, no lie this stuff works great, keep running it through the barrel till a patch comes out clean, your not 51 rounds from a clean barrel, your 500 rounds into a dirty barrel.
 
Originally Posted By: dennydI vote copper fouled barrel, you need some kind of copper remover, not just carb cleaner, i like to use Flitz polish, no lie this stuff works great, keep running it through the barrel till a patch comes out clean, your not 51 rounds from a clean barrel, your 500 rounds into a dirty barrel.

Hmmm...
I read he used Shooters choice, Wipe-out, bronze brush, and carbcleaner.
 
Does everyone clean their rifles like this??..I jus use wipeout and a boresnake...never had an issue...I'm not really concerned with a super clean bore...as long as it shoots...lol...I thought keyholing was a result of wrong weight for twist...
 
In my first post I ask if he used a chrony before or after his test. My two cents thoughts were that the bullets were being pushed too hot, which caused the tumbling.

Isn't that a factor for tumbling...?

The bullet holes in the target are all making nice little coke bottle prints... so wouldn't that mean it tumbles when hitting a soft target... which means the center point of the bullet is ever so slightly off center in flight, but not enough to throw it off paper... but only enough to make it turn sideways at the last moment.

After he shined the barrel up... the bullets may be shooting hotter now, which makes it senitive to some tumbling and some not... it's on the edge of it's speed verus, it's rotation ability.

That's just my two cents... don't bash me for being wrong...
 
rolleyes.gif
 
Is there anything to this guy's statement...?

A properly stabilized bullet (that is, one spun with sufficient rotational speed by the rifling) does not tumble in flight, but may tumble upon impact with a soft target. If a bullet were to actually tumble in flight, its accuracy would be so bad as to be unusable. What does happen is, that due to aerodynamic lift on the bullet and minute inconsistencies in the location of the bullet's center of gravity, that the bullet's point may precess slightly, that is move about the centerline of the bullet's flight, but the bullet remains point forward. This precession is quite small and if the rotational speed of the bullet is optimum the point precession dampens out to a negligible amount in a process known as "going to sleep."
 
My cleaning procedure for all of my rifles includes several patches of Shooter's Choice on a jag, then a bronze brush 10x or more, followed by more SC. Then wiped out with carb cleaner. Then Sweet's 7.62 10-20 wet patches on a jag, usually let the bore sit wet for an hour first. Then carb cleaner again. Then I re-do the Shooter's Choice and brush again. Then carb cleaner.

This has worked well on my other rifles, and it is tbe way I cleaned this 17Rem UNTIL the last cleaning this week. I used Wipe Out instead of Sweet's, everything else was tbe same as before, SC before and after.
 
I thought foaming bore cleaners like Wipe Out were supposed to work wonders, which is why I tried it finally for the first time. Perhaps it does not work so well afterall?

I will clean the bore again in the am with SC, then Sweet's, then SC, then Sweet's again, then SC again, brushing between steps. If my 17Rem does not clean up with these kinds of solvents, I don't know if I want to keep it. I thought all these "17Rem Myths" about bores fouling terribly were debunked.

I will try cleaning again and see how that goes.
 
Originally Posted By: deflaveSpitballing is great. But you have to have a clue to do it.

The man's case has been clearly outlined and folks are posting about bedding technique and twist rates. Good God. You could get a guess like that at the gun counter.



Travis

You may have missed it but I posted about the bedding in reference to his comment about the rifle not being consistent before it started tumbling bullets. I thought it was relevant but for someone looking for a cheap shot it was an easy stick I guess.
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGI thought foaming bore cleaners like Wipe Out were supposed to work wonders, which is why I tried it finally for the first time. Perhaps it does not work so well afterall?

I will clean the bore again in the am with SC, then Sweet's, then SC, then Sweet's again, then SC again, brushing between steps. If my 17Rem does not clean up with these kinds of solvents, I don't know if I want to keep it. I thought all these "17Rem Myths" about bores fouling terribly were debunked.

I will try cleaning again and see how that goes.

Foaming bore cleaners work wanders.
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGI thought foaming bore cleaners like Wipe Out were supposed to work wonders, which is why I tried it finally for the first time. Perhaps it does not work so well afterall?

I will clean the bore again in the am with SC, then Sweet's, then SC, then Sweet's again, then SC again, brushing between steps. If my 17Rem does not clean up with these kinds of solvents, I don't know if I want to keep it. I thought all these "17Rem Myths" about bores fouling terribly were debunked.

I will try cleaning again and see how that goes.

Dibs...



Travis
 
I have pushed some bullets point of coming apart when I first started reloading. I had some hit the paper like you were shooting 22 cal bird shot but they never turned side ways like yours are. Varmint Al's has a formula for an electric bore cleaner. It uses 2 D batteries and a steel rod,it is the same as electroplating only you reverse the current flow and it will take all of the copper from the barrel and deposit it on the steel rod. It will clean the barrel to the point it was before round one went down the barrel.It does nothing for carbon build up though.
 
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I mentioned neck tension and perhaps scraping some of the bullets jackets off on the 1st page of this thread. Seems odd that it shoots like this on some days and not others.

Looking at the three spent cases, they look to me like they have been crimped. Again, I am suspect of a dirty bore or messed up reloading of the cartridges.

I probably have a dozen CZ's and have sold about a 1/2 dozen, out of all those I have never had the problem with a bore fouling like you hear/read about with the 17 Rem myths.

Though yours could be the first.

If it were me, I would clean it thoroughly using a bore brush and the chemicals, then reset all my reloading dies to make sure they didn't somehow over FL size or crimp the cases. Maybe there is the "Carbon ring" in the bore that is causing all this mess.

Again, too bad you don't have any factory ammo to shoot through it.
 
Originally Posted By: dan brothersIn my first post I ask if he used a chrony before or after his test. My two cents thoughts were that the bullets were being pushed too hot, which caused the tumbling.

Isn't that a factor for tumbling...?

The bullet holes in the target are all making nice little coke bottle prints... so wouldn't that mean it tumbles when hitting a soft target... which means the center point of the bullet is ever so slightly off center in flight, but not enough to throw it off paper... but only enough to make it turn sideways at the last moment.

After he shined the barrel up... the bullets may be shooting hotter now, which makes it senitive to some tumbling and some not... it's on the edge of it's speed verus, it's rotation ability.

That's just my two cents... don't bash me for being wrong...



Not bashing...

... but NO to all of it.

Your theories are not possible.
 
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