Keyholing suddenly! Ahhh! 17Rem...

Originally Posted By: rth1959rth.....FWIW, I've never experienced keyholing but I think that the bore needs to be scoped.

rth1959rth

That was suggested in about the 4th or 5th response to this 12 pages of guessing by everyone as to what might be the problem.

FWIW, whatever the barrel problem is, it will likely show up through a bore scope.
 
It appears the problem *MUST* be a bad barrel. Maybe the throat is worn, maybe the rifling just sucks. Either way it needs a new barrel. Why would I want to waste my time and money on a gunsmith to tell me what the exact problem is, when there is only one solution to all of the possible problems? Or doesn anyone still think I didn't clean my barrel good enough?
 
I'll be the first to eat some crow,,,I thought it was carbon and copper and felt like you was on the right track.Sucks it didnt/hasnt worked out for ya.On the bright side a new barrel is always awesome!
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pahntr760 said:
I always love how folks suggest selling their problems to someone else. That's pretty lowly. Fix it, rebarrel, etc. Don't pawn you problems off to someone else.

As a rule, I don't sell guns with problems but I do usually manage to buy them. Then I have to fix them.
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From a squeeky clean bore, shot from a slightly elevated bench with a bipod and rear bunny ear leather bag, at 100 yards, allowed to cool between strings of shots... I never touched the scope settings in any way.

First shot was really wide. Hm. Well, it was a really squeekly clean barrel, so no biggie. Second shot was closer to where it should be.
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Group A: First 5-shot group of my previously worked up *best* load was horrible. Maybe the barrel needed some fouling?

Group B: 24gr is supposed to be the "go to" load. Ok, here it is, not bad. Looking promising, not great, but not too bad.

Group C: Back to my *best* load. Hm, still all jacked up. Maybe I scrubbed out a carbon ring in the barrel and now the barrel's preference has changed? Keep going...

Group D: Another PM member's best load. Not too bad.

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On to the next target. This one I shot in the following order: A, B, D, C.

Groups A and B: Here I switched to the 20gr Vmax. Nothing to brag about here.

Group D: I switched back to my *best* 25gr HP load (-.1gr powder) and it suddenly shot amazing save for one flier. Why is it suddenly shooting awesome when it shot horrible a few minutes ago?

Group C: Here's my *best* 25gr HP load again, shoots very well the first 3 shots until AAHHHHHHHH! KEYHOLING!!!!! Shots #41 and #42 keyholed from a squeeky clean barrel. This is the SAME EXACT thing that happened last shooting session, as detailed in my very first post.

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So, I went back to my sight in sheet of paper and fired my last 5-round group using my *best* 25gr HP load. 2/5 shots keyholed, right on top of each other, and you can clearly see smokey spirals on some of the round holes on this and also previous targets.
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So that's it. I packed up and drove home. 180 miles round trip.
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NOW do you guys still think I didn't clean my barrel good enough? I'm open to all ideas, but I don't believe this has anything to do with my cleaning and never did. I think my barrel is toast.
 
Well at least you got a few more shots before it started keyholing than the last fire session. After all that I would be done.... As for cleaning the gun more. My thought on that is if I had to worry about keeping a gun that clean to shoot it, it's not worth the stress... Jason
 
Maybe you missed a spot.


Seriously, I think you have given this barrel every opportunity. It is time to sell it cheap to Travis or rebarrel it. You'll soon have more in cleaning supplies, test ammo, gas, and high blood pressure meds than a new barrel will cost.
Someone with leisure time and access to a machine shop could recrown, set back and rechamber for kicks but it isn't feasible to pay for all of that if you can't do it yourself.
Good luck!

PS I am amazed at how many keyholed bullets end up in the bullseye. This has been greatly entertaining for everyone that doesn't own this rifle. Thanks for keeping us posted.
 
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I am not interested in any barrel that will only kinda shoot 30-35 shots before it keyholes. This thing is getting a new barrel.

What really frustrates me, is that it did not start off doing this as a new rifle. I fired 100 rounds without any cleaning the first day I ever shot it without any problem other than 30+ mph winds blowing my bullets around. I was careful to let the barrel cool between strings, etc, I'm no dummy. Apparently I shot out the barrel in about 600 rounds.
 
Originally Posted By: canuroper
PS I am amazed at how many keyholed bullets end up in the bullseye. You know you're jealous...
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Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOG

So, I went back to my sight in sheet of paper and fired my last 5-round group using my *best* 25gr HP load. 2/5 shots keyholed, right on top of each other, and you can clearly see smokey spirals on some of the round holes on this and also previous targets.
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NOW do you guys still think I didn't clean my barrel good enough? I'm open to all ideas, but I don't believe this has anything to do with my cleaning and never did. I think my barrel is toast.


"... and you can clearly see smokey spirals on some of the round holes on this and also previous targets."...

... That's it.

You either didn't mention the smokie spirals, or I missed you talking about them.

Those smokie holes are from lead leaking out of splits on the sides of the bullets - the splits happen along the rifling marks when the jacket is too weak for the rotational speed of the bullet... or, when there is damage in the barrel, that is scoring the jacket and making a weak place.The jackets are splitting along a rifling grove on the jacket.

See if you can try something with a heavier jacket, or something with more weight, running slower like a 25gr V-Max - and see if the problem goes away...

... if it doesn't, then what you said!! "I think my barrel is toast."
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOG Apparently I shot out the barrel in about 600 rounds.

That, or you annealed your Winchester white box brass wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooter
See if you can try something with a heavier jacket, or something with more weight, running slower like a 25gr V-Max - and see if the problem goes away... There is spiral evidence even with the slowest loads, not every hole, but here and there. And given the extremely limited selection of 17cal bullets, there isn't much else to choose from that is appropriate for predators. I don't want a rifle that only shoots ONE bullet, because as we've seen in recent months, bullet supplies dry up, manufacturers quit making them, jackets are discontinued, etc.
 
I would at least try what catshooter says. I went back and looked a little and it looked like the 20g v-max never keyholed, just shot bad. Did it ever keyhole? Jason
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGThe 20 Vmax never keyholed. But this is a predator gun, and the 20 Vmax won't work on coyotes. Too light/fast.

I was just trying to figure if the barrel was toast but I am figuring maybe it is the HP bullet you are using. If you have any interest in still keeping the gun, then I would just load some more 20g v-max and go shoot again without cleaning the gun at all. If no keyholing happens then stay away from that HP bullet and find a new one that might work on Yotes.

But it sounds like your done with it.... One good thing is its always nice to get a new toy...Jason
 
A brand new barrel is only about $500 away.
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Lilja seems to be the most favorite 17 Barrel. Pacnor has a pretty good following too.
 
Originally Posted By: RePeteBetter cash in your beer cans Travis.
I think I see a new 17 coming your way.

You did call dibs, right?

Outstanding.



Travis
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGIt appears the problem *MUST* be a bad barrel. Maybe the throat is worn, maybe the rifling just sucks. Either way it needs a new barrel. Why would I want to waste my time and money on a gunsmith to tell me what the exact problem is, when there is only one solution to all of the possible problems? Or doesn anyone still think I didn't clean my barrel good enough?

That sounds familiar...



Travis
 
Originally Posted By: Coyotejunki
Lilja seems to be the most favorite 17 Barrel. Pacnor has a pretty good following too.

You let me worry 'bout that...
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Travis
 
Dan up at lilja can spit you out a new tube in about 16 weeks. I know what I would do. You have to ask yourself, why now is it keyholeing? Must be damage to the barrel, its probably not going to get any better, rebarrel it I say.
 
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