stupidnewbie
Member
I agree with 6mm06. They need to fix that flickering before I buy one. I love the concept though.
ATN X-sight --- Shipping to distributers
- Thread starter PharmerJon
- Start date
Good job Ben. Thanks for sharing that with us. I agree with David, the focus seems pretty decent. I wonder how much better the scope will do when that flashing thing gets resolved. It looks like you can see better at the peak of the flash. I'm kinda curious how you had the 2t20's rigged. I've tried that to add more light on at distance and it does help in my part of the world. I've also gotten some improvement by using a wide blooming laser in the middle. I should say that my efforts are NOT with the x-sight. Don't have one, may never.
The blinking looks like auto gain not working correctly, focus looks good.
A manual gain setting would be nice, as the max level can be set by the user.
The t20IR with a 2x lens added will give it added range.
Hope the bugs get worked out, if its firmware should not be a problem.
If its hardware that's another story.
The sensor resolution is nice, as it is the tops for digital at this time.
Nice video!
A manual gain setting would be nice, as the max level can be set by the user.
The t20IR with a 2x lens added will give it added range.
Hope the bugs get worked out, if its firmware should not be a problem.
If its hardware that's another story.
The sensor resolution is nice, as it is the tops for digital at this time.
Nice video!
The flickering sucks - I refer to it as Club X-sight. No idea on whether it is software or hardware at this point.
Here is how the Doubled T20 ir was mounted, clearance wasn't a major issue - I will say that it adds weight to an already robust scope - the X-sight loaded with 4 AA's is 3.27 lbs on it's own.
Thanks for the compliments on the vid - it was quite a few hours of work getting the setup and swapping IRs to make it a apple to apple to apple comparison.
BB
Here is how the Doubled T20 ir was mounted, clearance wasn't a major issue - I will say that it adds weight to an already robust scope - the X-sight loaded with 4 AA's is 3.27 lbs on it's own.
Thanks for the compliments on the vid - it was quite a few hours of work getting the setup and swapping IRs to make it a apple to apple to apple comparison.
BB
6mm06
Well-known member
Ben, I know you put in some time getting that video. Testing is time consuming, but you are doing us all a great favor and we appreciate your efforts. When you find time, I would very much like to see how it works when shooting at night, ie if there is white-out.
I didn't realize the scope is so heavy. Guess I hadn't looked closely at the specs.
I don't recall if it has been stated before or not, but approximately how high does the scope sit above the bore?
Is the eye piece bellows removable?
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Ben, I know you put in some time getting that video. Testing is time consuming, but you are doing us all a great favor and we appreciate your efforts. When you find time, I would very much like to see how it works when shooting at night, ie if there is white-out.
I didn't realize the scope is so heavy. Guess I hadn't looked closely at the specs.
I don't recall if it has been stated before or not, but approximately how high does the scope sit above the bore?
Is the eye piece bellows removable?
Stated spec on weight is 2.7 lbs , I found it to be a little heavier on my scale and that was with batts.
The bellows is removable
A few pages back I posted photos of scope sitting on an AR15, 2.75" above the bore centerline.
Glad the info and vids are helpful, it is the primary reason I run the channel - consumer education! Myself included in that group
BB
Ben, I know you put in some time getting that video. Testing is time consuming, but you are doing us all a great favor and we appreciate your efforts. When you find time, I would very much like to see how it works when shooting at night, ie if there is white-out.
I didn't realize the scope is so heavy. Guess I hadn't looked closely at the specs.
I don't recall if it has been stated before or not, but approximately how high does the scope sit above the bore?
Is the eye piece bellows removable?
Stated spec on weight is 2.7 lbs , I found it to be a little heavier on my scale and that was with batts.
The bellows is removable
A few pages back I posted photos of scope sitting on an AR15, 2.75" above the bore centerline.
Glad the info and vids are helpful, it is the primary reason I run the channel - consumer education! Myself included in that group
BB
HTRN57
New member
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
UPDATE: I don't want to hijack a thread, but I thought this information might be good for some comparison.
After originally posting the video of my home-made unit, I then uploaded a video of the Photon. While it was
loading, Bennybone posted a test of the X-Sight, so now we have the three scopes to compare.
Here is the home-made unit and some video I recorded recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeDDQDt7Tdw&feature=youtu.be
Here is a video of a recent hunt with the Photon. The target is a possum at 60 yards.
As you can see, focus is not good and I could not get it any clearer. On top of that,
I had white-out on two shots - not good for video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv6Smqp8Dw0&feature=youtu.be
You might try taking the shot without the IR directly on your rifle or with the IR off. What might be happening is your IR is reflecting off of the smoke plume from your muzzle blast and that is the white out that you are seeing. I have the same problem when shooting with the camera on my rifle with the IR on. This is more of a problem when there is no wind to move the smoke plume out of the line of sight for the camera, shooting up wind or downwind. Cross winds are best for trying to get good camera footage when you have to use IR. Kevin
UPDATE: I don't want to hijack a thread, but I thought this information might be good for some comparison.
After originally posting the video of my home-made unit, I then uploaded a video of the Photon. While it was
loading, Bennybone posted a test of the X-Sight, so now we have the three scopes to compare.
Here is the home-made unit and some video I recorded recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeDDQDt7Tdw&feature=youtu.be
Here is a video of a recent hunt with the Photon. The target is a possum at 60 yards.
As you can see, focus is not good and I could not get it any clearer. On top of that,
I had white-out on two shots - not good for video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv6Smqp8Dw0&feature=youtu.be
You might try taking the shot without the IR directly on your rifle or with the IR off. What might be happening is your IR is reflecting off of the smoke plume from your muzzle blast and that is the white out that you are seeing. I have the same problem when shooting with the camera on my rifle with the IR on. This is more of a problem when there is no wind to move the smoke plume out of the line of sight for the camera, shooting up wind or downwind. Cross winds are best for trying to get good camera footage when you have to use IR. Kevin
So today I received an updated 5x X-sight running firmware 1.8.00.174
I observed that the "saved" zero coordinates (X/Y) will change based on your dialed in zoom level. The X-sight has 1.0x which is native 5x magnification all the way up to 8x digital zoom. So what the following video does is illustrate the fact that if you check your zero settings at a given digital zoom value the number will change.
I would think an optimal configuration for the zero coordinates would be for them to reflect a consistent value regardless of the zoom level however I am unsure if this is technically possible due to the screen being used to set the zero point.
I cannot recall if the previous firmware was setup in this way as I don't have that scope currently on hand.
No even sure this is an "issue" but I am not in the business of posting advisories so call it what you like - I just want to give you a heads up so you don't scratch all your hair out
BB
I observed that the "saved" zero coordinates (X/Y) will change based on your dialed in zoom level. The X-sight has 1.0x which is native 5x magnification all the way up to 8x digital zoom. So what the following video does is illustrate the fact that if you check your zero settings at a given digital zoom value the number will change.
I would think an optimal configuration for the zero coordinates would be for them to reflect a consistent value regardless of the zoom level however I am unsure if this is technically possible due to the screen being used to set the zero point.
I cannot recall if the previous firmware was setup in this way as I don't have that scope currently on hand.
No even sure this is an "issue" but I am not in the business of posting advisories so call it what you like - I just want to give you a heads up so you don't scratch all your hair out
BB
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6mm06
Well-known member
Ben, thanks again for the info. I tried to access the video and it says it's unavailable.
I'm like you, I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but it doesn't sound good. If a guy sights in at a particular zoom and uses that zoom in the field, then he should be spot on when hunting. But, if he wishes to zoom up or down he may have problems. This is just guessing at the moment from the sound of it. This sounds pretty much like what some conventional scopes do, especially the cheaper ones, that when you zoom or move the setting up or down, the POI changes.
Kevin, your assessment sound logical about the smoke plume effect. However, the issue as I see it is "where is a guy to mount the IR if not on the scope or rifle?"
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Ben, thanks again for the info. I tried to access the video and it says it's unavailable.
I'm like you, I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but it doesn't sound good. If a guy sights in at a particular zoom and uses that zoom in the field, then he should be spot on when hunting. But, if he wishes to zoom up or down he may have problems. This is just guessing at the moment from the sound of it. This sounds pretty much like what some conventional scopes do, especially the cheaper ones, that when you zoom or move the setting up or down, the POI changes.
Kevin, your assessment sound logical about the smoke plume effect. However, the issue as I see it is "where is a guy to mount the IR if not on the scope or rifle?"
Video fixed sorry about that, that is what I get for leaving the 4 year old dog in charge of the upload. He is sleeping outside tonight
Not exactly the situation, its more a concern with the method of zeroing - I prefer a good solid 3x - 4x magnification level when doing a 100 yard zero. So if I dial in the zoom on the first shot to a 3.0x and then enter the zero menu and change x=0,y=0 to x=7, y=33 and then on the verification shots I bump up to 4.0x zoom and shoot and still need to adjust when I enter the menu to set x/y it will say x=13,y=43 even though I didn't make any changes between shots 1 and 2.
This will be enough to drive the guys who are accustomed to manual turrets or non-changing x/y values NUTS.
I believe the solution is to just continue with zeroing to the new point of impact after shot two.
Take a third shot at whatever zoom value you pick and if it is on then go back down to 1.0x zoom and write that number down....
I think.
BB
Ben, thanks again for the info. I tried to access the video and it says it's unavailable.
I'm like you, I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but it doesn't sound good. If a guy sights in at a particular zoom and uses that zoom in the field, then he should be spot on when hunting. But, if he wishes to zoom up or down he may have problems. This is just guessing at the moment from the sound of it. This sounds pretty much like what some conventional scopes do, especially the cheaper ones, that when you zoom or move the setting up or down, the POI changes.
Kevin, your assessment sound logical about the smoke plume effect. However, the issue as I see it is "where is a guy to mount the IR if not on the scope or rifle?"
Video fixed sorry about that, that is what I get for leaving the 4 year old dog in charge of the upload. He is sleeping outside tonight
Not exactly the situation, its more a concern with the method of zeroing - I prefer a good solid 3x - 4x magnification level when doing a 100 yard zero. So if I dial in the zoom on the first shot to a 3.0x and then enter the zero menu and change x=0,y=0 to x=7, y=33 and then on the verification shots I bump up to 4.0x zoom and shoot and still need to adjust when I enter the menu to set x/y it will say x=13,y=43 even though I didn't make any changes between shots 1 and 2.
This will be enough to drive the guys who are accustomed to manual turrets or non-changing x/y values NUTS.
I believe the solution is to just continue with zeroing to the new point of impact after shot two.
Take a third shot at whatever zoom value you pick and if it is on then go back down to 1.0x zoom and write that number down....
I think.
BB
HTRN57
New member
Originally Posted By: 6mm06
Ben, thanks again for the info. I tried to access the video and it says it's unavailable.
I'm like you, I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but it doesn't sound good. If a guy sights in at a particular zoom and uses that zoom in the field, then he should be spot on when hunting. But, if he wishes to zoom up or down he may have problems. This is just guessing at the moment from the sound of it. This sounds pretty much like what some conventional scopes do, especially the cheaper ones, that when you zoom or move the setting up or down, the POI changes.
Kevin, your assessment sound logical about the smoke plume effect. However, the issue as I see it is "where is a guy to mount the IR if not on the scope or rifle?"
Dave,
I am currently working on a solution myself with my Gen 3 setup. My only fix now is to hunt cross winds so the wind can take the plume away from out in front of you. I used a muzzle brake last year which channeled the plume to the sides which helped but you would need an AR platform for that. On half to full moon nights when you don't need IR (for Gen 3) then I don't use it and can get some really good footage that way. The Photon however, seems to need IR most of the time. I will keep working on a solution. Kevin
Ben, thanks again for the info. I tried to access the video and it says it's unavailable.
I'm like you, I'm not sure if this is an issue or not, but it doesn't sound good. If a guy sights in at a particular zoom and uses that zoom in the field, then he should be spot on when hunting. But, if he wishes to zoom up or down he may have problems. This is just guessing at the moment from the sound of it. This sounds pretty much like what some conventional scopes do, especially the cheaper ones, that when you zoom or move the setting up or down, the POI changes.
Kevin, your assessment sound logical about the smoke plume effect. However, the issue as I see it is "where is a guy to mount the IR if not on the scope or rifle?"
Dave,
I am currently working on a solution myself with my Gen 3 setup. My only fix now is to hunt cross winds so the wind can take the plume away from out in front of you. I used a muzzle brake last year which channeled the plume to the sides which helped but you would need an AR platform for that. On half to full moon nights when you don't need IR (for Gen 3) then I don't use it and can get some really good footage that way. The Photon however, seems to need IR most of the time. I will keep working on a solution. Kevin
I've been reading this "plume effect" white out with interest. I know that white out happens with the photon, it didn't occur to me that it might be smoke plume causing it. Makes sense Kevin. Any digital scope using a lot of IR light would suffer from this, including the x-sight. As I understand it, it needs a lot of IR help to see on darker nights as the photon does. Proper gain control should keep the white out effect minimized. Propagation delay issues in the scope electronics may keep it from clearing quickly. I wonder if a helmet mounted light would help keep the smoke reflection issue down. Your beam path would be out of the immediate plume. What do you think Kevin?
SkyPup
New member
It has been a first class roll out for sure, lots of fluff, feathers, and frustration from the PR/Sales Department with virtually zilch for technical info.
Still looks like an expensive digital day scope too, not really convinced of its performance after the sun goes down, bet a good discount can be had in the local pawn shops next year.
Perhaps a new improved model will make its debut at the 2015 Shot Show next month?
Still looks like an expensive digital day scope too, not really convinced of its performance after the sun goes down, bet a good discount can be had in the local pawn shops next year.
Perhaps a new improved model will make its debut at the 2015 Shot Show next month?
HTRN57
New member
Originally Posted By: 1loboI've been reading this "plume effect" white out with interest. I know that white out happens with the photon, it didn't occur to me that it might be smoke plume causing it. Makes sense Kevin. Any digital scope using a lot of IR light would suffer from this, including the x-sight. As I understand it, it needs a lot of IR help to see on darker nights as the photon does. Proper gain control should keep the white out effect minimized. Propagation delay issues in the scope electronics may keep it from clearing quickly. I wonder if a helmet mounted light would help keep the smoke reflection issue down. Your beam path would be out of the immediate plume. What do you think Kevin?
I looked at Dave's whiteout footage and you can see that the picture gradually comes back as the smoke plume clears. I don't believe there is anything wrong with the scope or the electronics from the scope. I have had the same issues occur using a PVS-14 or MX-160 on the front of my camera with it mounted on my gun. Take a look at the footage below. This is a double I got a few years back. This was a full moon night. The first coyote was shot at around 65 yards using no IR light at all. The second coyote appeared about 3 minutes later and while I could have shot it without the IR on I thought for viewing/filming purposes it might be best to turn it on. On this shot you can clearly see the smoke plume affect.
If you use an AR platform you can purchase muzzle brakes that channel the gasses and smoke to the sides. This does an effective job of clearing for the camera. Only problem with this setup with Gen 3 is the muzzle blast is so large that it activates the ABC which shuts it down momentarily and I don't get any footage of the impact. I don't think that would be a problem with digital NV since it is not as sensitive to brighter light and has no automatic shut off control. Kevin
I looked at Dave's whiteout footage and you can see that the picture gradually comes back as the smoke plume clears. I don't believe there is anything wrong with the scope or the electronics from the scope. I have had the same issues occur using a PVS-14 or MX-160 on the front of my camera with it mounted on my gun. Take a look at the footage below. This is a double I got a few years back. This was a full moon night. The first coyote was shot at around 65 yards using no IR light at all. The second coyote appeared about 3 minutes later and while I could have shot it without the IR on I thought for viewing/filming purposes it might be best to turn it on. On this shot you can clearly see the smoke plume affect.
If you use an AR platform you can purchase muzzle brakes that channel the gasses and smoke to the sides. This does an effective job of clearing for the camera. Only problem with this setup with Gen 3 is the muzzle blast is so large that it activates the ABC which shuts it down momentarily and I don't get any footage of the impact. I don't think that would be a problem with digital NV since it is not as sensitive to brighter light and has no automatic shut off control. Kevin
Originally Posted By: SkyPupIt has been a first class roll out for sure, lots of fluff, feathers, and frustration from the PR/Sales Department with virtually zilch for technical info.
Still looks like an expensive digital day scope too, not really convinced of its performance after the sun goes down, bet a good discount can be had in the local pawn shops next year.
Perhaps a new improved model will make its debut at the 2015 Shot Show next month?
Hey SkyPuP -
I think any new improved model(s) would up the price which would take it to a whole other plane of customers.
What they have right now is a sub 800.00 device that most frugal people can buy and get in the game with.
I have zero clue where it is headed but I don't foresee paying more $$$ for a better screen if the other aspects of the system don't also get "enhanced".
It is a wait and see situation for me at this point, firmware can be optimized but as you say if the company shifts towards a new direction and stops developing firmware that could spell disaster for early adopters.
Still looks like an expensive digital day scope too, not really convinced of its performance after the sun goes down, bet a good discount can be had in the local pawn shops next year.
Perhaps a new improved model will make its debut at the 2015 Shot Show next month?
Hey SkyPuP -
I think any new improved model(s) would up the price which would take it to a whole other plane of customers.
What they have right now is a sub 800.00 device that most frugal people can buy and get in the game with.
I have zero clue where it is headed but I don't foresee paying more $$$ for a better screen if the other aspects of the system don't also get "enhanced".
It is a wait and see situation for me at this point, firmware can be optimized but as you say if the company shifts towards a new direction and stops developing firmware that could spell disaster for early adopters.
SkyPup
New member
Ben, thanks for the heads up, you do a great job reviewing the digital gear and I read your posts on it to keep up to date with new developments.
An $800 digital scope is still allot of coin for someone like me who could easily invest that money in a NV IR laser device, and NV ACOG scope, or thermal scanner, each of which I use virtually all the time.
So far, it's nighttime performance leaves much to be desired to me for anything beyond blasting armadillos in the backyard with an IR illuminator with my custom Ruger .22 dillo blaster.
That makes this scope more of a novelty digital day scope for which I can find much better high quality utilitarian investments that would be put to better use.
An $800 digital scope is still allot of coin for someone like me who could easily invest that money in a NV IR laser device, and NV ACOG scope, or thermal scanner, each of which I use virtually all the time.
So far, it's nighttime performance leaves much to be desired to me for anything beyond blasting armadillos in the backyard with an IR illuminator with my custom Ruger .22 dillo blaster.
That makes this scope more of a novelty digital day scope for which I can find much better high quality utilitarian investments that would be put to better use.
Thanks for the compliment on the reviews and videos.
We'll get you into a digital scope someday - this year isn't the breakout year that we were hoping for with regards to the hype on the product however I believe a good number of companies are paying attention to customer response to the technology.
So maybe in 2016...
Hope you and the wife have a good X-mas, will miss the opportunity to meet you at SHOT this year but you have more important things at hand.
BB
We'll get you into a digital scope someday - this year isn't the breakout year that we were hoping for with regards to the hype on the product however I believe a good number of companies are paying attention to customer response to the technology.
So maybe in 2016...
Hope you and the wife have a good X-mas, will miss the opportunity to meet you at SHOT this year but you have more important things at hand.
BB