Where's NASA

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Maybe the Mods should put this thread in a vise. Its going nowhere constructive.....in my most humble opinion /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Rick, relax no one said your a bad guy or did anything wrong, but FO shouldn't have been banned if it had anything to do with you or your differences, and if it was and you sleep well over that, its fine, because its your image.

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Alaskan Yoter, I can find nothing based in fact in your post. It has been evident for years from your posting here and elsewhere that you have issues with the moderators here, and me in particular. You seem to have a problem with everything from my name to my nationality.
What I find interesting is that I've been here everyday for 8 years volunteering to make this a better place and to promote the sport, while you continue to snipe with your "facts" skewed. If I wasn't doing a decent job, I would have been asked to leave as a mod. Simple as that.
You can be part of the problem or part of the solution.




Frog I find it hard you can even say the word "Fact". I have been less a thorn in PM's side then most, and generally when I get involved its because, its a dictatorship style of moderating, or a do as I say but not as I do issue, and you fully well know that. I have discussed you on other boards, yes! Nothing that I don't say here and nothing like you may be eluding to, and I don't try to get caught in the games. I'm pervy to you and your style, and a few other tid bits, but ya don't see me running to other boards and bashing you like you mention. If so please provide me with the link. I'm sure those other boards will tell you I generally avoid those issues too. Do I like you, No! Based on what I have seen ya do and your rants (Which by the way are much cleaner), but thats my choice and no one can tell me other wise.

Your broad stoke of the brush, saying I have issues with the moderators here, is a typical of you and a few moderators. (Make it look like Tods a rebel) My issue isn't with all its with a few, and they perty much know who they are, if they haven't left already. The majority of your moderators here are super, and you have added a few nice ones. What makes them better is people skills, the lack of the heavy hand, and the restraint to dog pile any time another mod/admin takes the lead.

The only problem I have with your nationality is that your running this board, nothing else. That was said in public before and I'll say it again to a board that preaches the dream. I don't think you as a Canadaian should be running this board, and before the dog pile, why not turn it over to some one in Mexico. Theres no difference.

Yes, I'm sure you do a good job some times even most, but I re call a phone call between us where you were like a rabbit dog trying to get two mods, booted? Remember that as a new and upcoming mod? Stretch was one of them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I told you he was wrong but didn't deserve to be jumped on and your words were "I'm gone do what I can do, to get him booted." Ah, team player. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Of course your still here, seems that anyone that opposes the click gets ran out or booted. Jim seen you do this before, your already trying to turn this towards me and make me look like the bad guy. when I'm just speaking my mind. Am I sniping? Nope! Matter fact you and few others like to use that term quite frequently when being asked the direct questions, or having the obvious pointed out.

I have had one Mod contact me and tell me that I'm wrong about the NASA issue, and I respect him enough to leave it lay and hope he's right.

I'm a problem or part of the solution? Thats other quick turn around at me but you already know that answer. I like PM and would like to see it move on, but I won't not speak my mind when someone tries to run someone over.

As far as the other stuff I mentioned. Its hard see a fine line between a sponsor and a take over when, most are affiliated with one company. Be it selling staffin, field testing, moderating etc..... Its great for the company but bad business for a board open to the predator community, and is supposed to be an un biased community, and fair for all, but its not Jim and it starts at the top. Is the company to blame? Nope they are doing what they are supposed to do. The admin of this board is to blame. There should be no affiliation with anyone running this board, and a sponsor. I'm sure you understand what I'm saying. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Look at your sig line? And your gona tell me its unbiased? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Predator Masters is becoming what you paint it to be and what the public members see it as, and the concerns seem to be perty much the same with a perty good chunk of members.

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Reasons for immediate loss of membership privileges also include private messages or emails that are in violation of our terms of service, and sent to members or staff of Predator Masters.




And you say this doesn't leave the impression theres a dictatorship kind of style going on? Whats it any business of PM who or what I say in an email or PM? Or any other member for that matter. Has anyone got a hold of couple of your emails Jim? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Two way street thing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

The points I made are factual or based on things I have seen done or deleted by yourself or your staff. Nothing skewed.

If NASA is not telling the trueth clear your name and present the facts, but as it looks now he was banned with no appearnet reason, or one he knows of. Its all in the image. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

James glad to see your paying attention. Nope not making up figures but those numbers were given to Krusty and varfied by three of your moderators in mIRC chat (Remember that). Matter fact it was a majority of the ones that chatted that said they didn't vote or voted for him to stay, and several are still here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif So No, I'm not making up numbers, I'm using the ones provided by PM at the time.

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I can look in the mods forum and tell you exact numbers and who voted which way and you are flat wrong on that one.

Thing is if I told you the facts of who voted what way I would be breaking confidentiality and that would require the other moderators to remove me from moderatorship for it..




So you just confirmed what I have been saying. Regardless of the numbers you have and the ones provided, the obstained and to stay votes didn't add up with what the mods were saying. So your right they are lying! Thanks James. Says alot doesn't it?

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If you asked 7 moderators which way they voted (which I doubt) and they told you (which I really seriously doubt) they broke confidentiality




I simply asked how they voted, and they answered, no breach of what ever confidentiality you think you may have. Matter fact you would have been amazed the free talkings of the goings on in the PM closet back then. I'd have to check to see how many are still here or hanging around, but I think there are atleast 3-4 still on your staff, and others have moved on. But hey another thing to cover up. I call it like I see it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif P.S. Didn't you guys keep copies of what was posted in there? I think so, you used it once to threaten someone of a law suit? So you have what ya need?

Maybe you guys should have a forum/post for band folks and why they were banned? What would there be to hide and heck even give them a chance to repsond or appeal it before the door is locked?

Better yet, have the membership vote on it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Theres a novel idea. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Todd,
I see where you and I joined this place on the same day. I reckon nobody else has noticed the changes. Kinda reminds me of America voting for Obama as the next president. Just follow the herd.
Anyone remember when Will Craig died? Anyone have a copy of his original "Dream" thread? Just curious. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I too will miss NASA. Love him or hate him the guy had a lot to offer. One of Will Craigs personal friends getting booted........hmmm?

Why even call it "Keeping Will Craig's dream alive"? It really doesn't mean that to anyone. It's become more of a punch line or campaign slogan than an actual dream that is being kept alive. Oh well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
I'll just go crawl back into the hole I came out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
I guess you don't remember Will banning people, including people that he personally brought to PM.
 
I guess this whole thing confuses me. I can certainly see both sides of the issue. I also understand that the Moderators and Admin Staff do have to maintain law and order and I believe by and large they do a darn good job. I have never had an issue with a mod on this board.

The whole thing makes me wonder though as to the why of all the confidentiality. I kind of liken this to a member of society committing a crime. When that happens, the legal system forces them to answer for their actions. The whole thing, including the crime they have committed is public record. Not only that, but they are judged by a jury of their peers. By their peers, not by a panel of judges. That person has, amoung many rights, the right to remain silent or the right to testify and defend themselves. The moderators are the peace officers of the board. They keep the law and order. But if this was truly a membership, in its purist sense, then the members should have a part in the process. Its very dangerous when all the facts are not laid upon the table for all to see. Kinda makes people wonder if there isnt something dark going on somewhere.

I have always supported the staff of PM and value my membership here. I just think you need to re-examine your process and maybe tweek it a bit. NASA was my friend. I dont understand what happened and maybe if I did I could make a more informed decision how I feel about him being gone. I will miss you NASA and you are welcome in my camp anytime.
 
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The whole thing makes me wonder though as to the why of all the confidentiality.



Look, I just don't know what it is about grown men that makes them think that they have some sort of right to stick their nose into other people's private business. The bottom line is that just because you want to know something does not mean that you have right to, or are going to. Is this a genetic thing? Too much estrogen, or what?

We mods have always -set up by Will himself- worked with the understanding that what is said in the moderators forum is utterly confidential. What is said there, stays there. Period. No matter what the subject, trouble with a member, discussing policy, whatever.

It's private. Always has been. Always will be. The day that changes is the day that most likely every single moderator leaves. It would take something truly extraordinary to change that. I've been here over 7 years and a lot has happened during that time. Nothing sufficient to cause us to decide to break that trust.

When it comes to disciplinary action regarding a member, that member is indeed told why action was taken. NASA was told why he was banned. The specifics, quite frankly, are no ones business but his & ours.

Some of you guys sound to me like a bunch of gossipy old women, sitting around with your granny panties in a wad, wringing your hands.
 
I really take offense to the statement of Jim being Canadian and his position here. There are many American company's with foreign directors. Many of you think Jim runs this board alone, he dosen't. There are checks and balances. As a group we make these decisions. You just hear more from Jim because it's his role. It makes no difference were he is from.

Just because you feel you have a right to gain information dosen't mean you will. If we release any member and or sponsor for any reason thats PM's business. If you want to ask them feel free. But remember, you will only get their side of things. Lets say that your even a paid member of an organization or sponsor, you still have no right to information regarding daily decisions. Members and sponsors alike are free to come and go as they please but if the TOS aggreement is broken we will act on it.

I'm pretty sure that this post will be locked sometime today. Theres no need for any futher discussion on the matter. Tom knows why he was banned and so do we. He knows the process (being a mod at one time) and how it works but he and he alone chose to do what he has done.

End of story.
 
Alaskan Yoter

Good post!!!!!!!!!!

This like it or leave it,post the way I want you to post or leave it,Agree with eveything we do or say or leave additude gets old. If you defend someone you like and respected, you can one of two things agree with mods or leave or take the chance of being band.
 
YellowHammer, RedFrog, SOMEBODY PLEASE lock this thing up......I'm getting tired of seeing it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
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Alaskan Yoter

Good post!!!!!!!!!!

This like it or leave it,post the way I want you to post or leave it,Agree with eveything we do or say or leave additude gets old. If you defend someone you like and respected, you can one of two things agree with mods or leave or take the chance of being band.



Hate to burst your bubble, but nobody has been banned for asking. We simply told you that you aren't going to get what you want, which is to be privy to confidential discussions of the moderators.

Now, you can stomp your little feet & hold your breath until you're blue in the face, but it ain't gonna change anything.
 
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Anyone remember when Will Craig died? Anyone have a copy of his original "Dream" thread? Just curious

Why even call it "Keeping Will Craig's dream alive"? It really doesn't mean that to anyone. It's become more of a punch line or campaign slogan than an actual dream that is being kept alive. Oh well.



This is a post from Will himself, and outlines what he intended when he started this board.

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The dream of Predator Masters is bigger than just a message board, the board is just the tip of the iceberg. We would like Predator Masters to become the Ducks Unlimited of predator calling.

Predator calling is the fastest growing hunting sport in North America. If we don’t get organized to protect and promote the sport we love so much, we might not have it one these days. We need to organize and stand together to fight the anti-hunting movement at a State by State level.

The basic plan is as follows:

1. Develop message board using professionals that have the very best in communications skills and expertise.

2. Develop standard Rules of Conduct. (see Rules of the Game -thread)

3. Develop moderators to become active in managing their forums. The Administrator and the moderators would become the “operational managing team”.

4. Develop and approve a logo.

5. Develop a Board of Directors.

6. Develop and approve bylaws and a mission statement.

7. Develop membership levels to the point to attract predator calling related businesses, incorporate banner

8. Develop advertising funds to generate operational funds. Operational funds will first be used to over operational cost such as server fees and web site optimization Excess funds from advertising can be used to create Predator Masters collateral to generate additional operational funds. (See Advertising for PM - thread)

9. Surplus funds will be used to purchase Predator Masters hats, decals, stickers, etc., to be sold to members to increase operational funds. These funds will be used to support activities such as the regional scheduled hunts, seminars, public education programs etc.

10. An Annual Predator Masters Hunt/BBQ is vital to bring the membership together and Predator Masters must continue them throughout the future.

11. Develop a system where State Predator Master organizations are formed, who in turn will implement programs where they can . State, and local, Predator Masters clubs can further promote the sport of predator calling and support their local activities.


It is hoped that at least some advertisers will agree to offer Predator Masters members discounts on products and also donate items for contest prizes, raffles, awards, etc. In turn Predators Masters will offer a free product field testing service to Predator Masters advertisers. Therefore advertisers are actually Predator Masters members. This body of both predator callers and business that support the sport with products or services work together to promote and protect the sport of predator calling.

So there you have the basics of the dream. Many if not all of the items mentioned need to be done. The hard part is finding people that are truly willing to get involved and stay that way. Right now we need some one to help with attracting advertisers and accounting for the funds generated.

Predator Masters can be the weapon that protects the sport if we can get people to work together. Lots of work to be done but one or two people cannot do it alone, but working as a team it can happen....

Predator Master Members Rules:

All Predator Master members are expected to conduct themselves in a courteous and respectful manner when posting at the forum. All Predator Masters members will be treated with the utmost respect and dignity. Individuals violating the following conditions will be subject to having their posting privileges suspended and/or revoked as determined by Predator Masters.

(1) No profanity, flaming, name calling. This board is visited by a wide audience, males, females and kids! Predator Masters will not tolerate the use of vulgar language, racial slurs or other terms intended to be of an insulting nature.
Predator Masters understands that individuals will not agree with each other on all subjects or comments made on the Predator Masters forum. We have no problem with the concept of open, respectful debate on any and all subjects found on the forum. However, Predator Masters demands that all forms of debate or disagreement between those posting on the forum be conducted in a manner that prohibits personal attacks being directed from one party to an other.

(2) Predator Masters members are asked to post all questions, comments, etc. to the related forum category.
An example would be asking a question about reloading on the Predator Biology forum. Predator Masters has obtained very knowledgeable, and professional, individuals to serve as forum moderators. “Off Topic” posts will be moved, by the moderator, to the forum category where the post is best suited. So please do not take offense if your respective post is moved to another category within the Predator Masters forum. This is done to insure that the Predator Masters forum remains segmented in such a manner that makes finding respective information easier for all to find.

(3) False information/illegal activity. Predator Masters takes a dim view of individuals who intentionally post, or make false statements, that are designed to mislead the membership of Predator Masters. Posted material that is a known violation of state game/hunting regulations will be immediately forwarded to the respective agency by Predator Masters.

(4) Predator Masters Moderators. Forum moderators are responsible, and have the authority; to move, edit, or remove, any posted material in violation of the above.

Here's my take on things. Please read and think things over. I don't want a list of rules a mile long but I'd like to cover the important things at the same time...

I'd like to hear from everyone on this ASAP, pretty please.... WIll (2001)

....y'all remember this!




http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubb...page=0#52582311
 
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or other terms intended to be of an insulting nature



Then why are there so many moderators, just in this NASA topic alone, who are being insulting and demeaning? I understand they're not the only ones doing it and it has turned into a heated discussion, but who should be setting the example here?
 
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YellowHammer, RedFrog, SOMEBODY PLEASE lock this thing up......I'm getting tired of seeing it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif



Moderators, will one of you PLEASE lock Hidalgo out of this thread. He is tired of seeing it but hasn't figured out how to NOT see it. PLEASE help him /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
We have a war raging about us for our freedom, our right to bear arms, our hunting heritage and then we have all this "in fighting" over something that in the bigger picture amounts to squat. Divide and conquer, yes sir, the enemy is at work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
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YellowHammer, RedFrog, SOMEBODY PLEASE lock this thing up......I'm getting tired of seeing it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif



Moderators, will one of you PLEASE lock Hidalgo out of this thread. He is tired of seeing it but hasn't figured out how to NOT see it. PLEASE help him /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif



So now you're attacking me? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

I don't understand how anyone could enjoy this mess. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
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Hidalgo if your tired of seeing it then don't come here to read it.

See how easy that is



Oh no....I NEED to be here reading it. But that doesn't change the fact that it's a very disappointing read.

It is totally amazing to me that I had misinterpreted some of the members here and their personalities. Some of the ones I thought were pretty good 'ole boys and mature adults are surprising me...to say the least.

Unless something is directed to me personally, I won't say anything else on this topic, except to say that I can only wonder how people who seem so unhappy with management in a club or organization could stand to be around it any more. I'd have already left and went elsewhere if I were as frustrated as some of the folks here seem to be.
 
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