Obama on guns
- Thread starter Tommy Johnson
- Start date
Jeff Mock
Active member
Like I said before...He will SAY anything to get elected. His record speaks MUCH, MUCH louder than his "You Tube" video does...
Courtesy of my good buddy Java: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Barack Obama on Gun Control
Democratic Jr Senator (IL)
Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws
Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual's right to bear arms?
A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.
Q: But do you still favor the registration & licensing of guns?
A: I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don't have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets.
Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008
FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban
Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."
Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:
35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.
Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views."
Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008
Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok
Q: You said recently, "I have no intention of taking away folks' guns." But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you've said that it's constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?
A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions.
Source: 2008 Politico pre-Potomac Primary interview Feb 11, 2008
Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing
Q: When you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?
A: I don't think that we can get that done. But what we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. The efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers. As president, I intend to make it happen. We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You've got the tradition of lawful gun ownership. It is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot. Then you've got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago. We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets.
Source: 2008 Democratic debate in Las Vegas Jan 15, 2008
2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month
Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month (it did not pass). He voted against letting people violate local weapons bans in cases of self-defense, but also voted in2004 to let retired police officers carry concealed handguns.
Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.148 Oct 30, 2007
Concealed carry OK for retired police officers
Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois senate that allowed retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons. If there was any issue on which Obama rarely deviated, it was gun control. He was the most strident candidate when it came to enforcin and expanding gun control laws. So this vote jumped out as inconsistent.
When I queried him about the vote, he said, "I didn't find that [vote] surprising. I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry. This was a narrow exception in an exceptional circumstance where a retired police officer might find himself vulnerable as a consequence of the work he has previously done--and had been trained extensively in the proper use of firearms."
It wasn't until a few weeks later that another theory came forward about the uncharacteristic vote. Obama was battling with his GOP opponent to win the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police.
Source: From Promise to Power, by David Mendell, p.250-251 Aug 14, 2007
Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities
Q: How would you address gun violence that continues to be the #1 cause of death among African-American men?
A: You know, when the massacre happened at Virginia Tech, I think all of us were grief stricken and shocked by the carnage. But in this year alone, in Chicago, we've had 34 Chicago public school students gunned down and killed. And for the most part, there has been silence. We know what to do. We've got to enforce the gun laws that are on the books. We've got to make sure that unscrupulous gun dealers aren't loading up vans and dumping guns in our communities, because we know they're not made in our communities. There aren't any gun manufacturers here, right here in the middle of Detroit. But what we also have to do is to make sure that we change our politics so that we care just as much about those 30-some children in Chicago who've been shot as we do the children in Virginia Tech. That's a mindset that we have to have in the White House and we don't have it right now.
Source: 2007 NAACP Presidential Primary Forum Jul 12, 2007
Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality
I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer's lobby. But I also believe that when a gangbanger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels someone disrespected him, we have a problem of morality. Not only do ew need to punish thatman for his crime, but we need to acknowledge that there's a hole in his heart, one that government programs alone may not be able to repair.
Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p.215 Oct 1, 2006
Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban
KEYES: [to Obama]: I am a strong believer in the second amendment. The gun control mentality is ruthlessly absurd. It suggests that we should pass a law that prevents law abiding citizens from carrying weapons. You end up with a situation where the crook have all the guns and the law abiding citizens cannot defend themselves. I guess that's good enough for Senator Obama who voted against the bill that would have allowed homeowners to defend themselves if their homes were broken into.
OBAMA: Let's be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban.
Source: Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes Oct 21, 2004
Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions
Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.
Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:
Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime
Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect
Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought
Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations
Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices
Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S 397 ; vote number 2005-219 on Jul 29, 2005
Courtesy of my good buddy Java: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Barack Obama on Gun Control
Democratic Jr Senator (IL)
Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws
Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual's right to bear arms?
A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.
Q: But do you still favor the registration & licensing of guns?
A: I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don't have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets.
Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008
FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban
Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."
Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:
35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.
Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views."
Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008
Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok
Q: You said recently, "I have no intention of taking away folks' guns." But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you've said that it's constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?
A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions.
Source: 2008 Politico pre-Potomac Primary interview Feb 11, 2008
Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing
Q: When you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?
A: I don't think that we can get that done. But what we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. The efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers. As president, I intend to make it happen. We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You've got the tradition of lawful gun ownership. It is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot. Then you've got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago. We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets.
Source: 2008 Democratic debate in Las Vegas Jan 15, 2008
2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month
Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month (it did not pass). He voted against letting people violate local weapons bans in cases of self-defense, but also voted in2004 to let retired police officers carry concealed handguns.
Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.148 Oct 30, 2007
Concealed carry OK for retired police officers
Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois senate that allowed retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons. If there was any issue on which Obama rarely deviated, it was gun control. He was the most strident candidate when it came to enforcin and expanding gun control laws. So this vote jumped out as inconsistent.
When I queried him about the vote, he said, "I didn't find that [vote] surprising. I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry. This was a narrow exception in an exceptional circumstance where a retired police officer might find himself vulnerable as a consequence of the work he has previously done--and had been trained extensively in the proper use of firearms."
It wasn't until a few weeks later that another theory came forward about the uncharacteristic vote. Obama was battling with his GOP opponent to win the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police.
Source: From Promise to Power, by David Mendell, p.250-251 Aug 14, 2007
Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities
Q: How would you address gun violence that continues to be the #1 cause of death among African-American men?
A: You know, when the massacre happened at Virginia Tech, I think all of us were grief stricken and shocked by the carnage. But in this year alone, in Chicago, we've had 34 Chicago public school students gunned down and killed. And for the most part, there has been silence. We know what to do. We've got to enforce the gun laws that are on the books. We've got to make sure that unscrupulous gun dealers aren't loading up vans and dumping guns in our communities, because we know they're not made in our communities. There aren't any gun manufacturers here, right here in the middle of Detroit. But what we also have to do is to make sure that we change our politics so that we care just as much about those 30-some children in Chicago who've been shot as we do the children in Virginia Tech. That's a mindset that we have to have in the White House and we don't have it right now.
Source: 2007 NAACP Presidential Primary Forum Jul 12, 2007
Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality
I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer's lobby. But I also believe that when a gangbanger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels someone disrespected him, we have a problem of morality. Not only do ew need to punish thatman for his crime, but we need to acknowledge that there's a hole in his heart, one that government programs alone may not be able to repair.
Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p.215 Oct 1, 2006
Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban
KEYES: [to Obama]: I am a strong believer in the second amendment. The gun control mentality is ruthlessly absurd. It suggests that we should pass a law that prevents law abiding citizens from carrying weapons. You end up with a situation where the crook have all the guns and the law abiding citizens cannot defend themselves. I guess that's good enough for Senator Obama who voted against the bill that would have allowed homeowners to defend themselves if their homes were broken into.
OBAMA: Let's be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban.
Source: Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes Oct 21, 2004
Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions
Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.
Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:
Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime
Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect
Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought
Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations
Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices
Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S 397 ; vote number 2005-219 on Jul 29, 2005
do you believe what he says now, or what he's done his entire life?
I was born in the morning, but not *this* morning. I'll go by what he's done.
I was born in the morning, but not *this* morning. I'll go by what he's done.
Ackman
New member
He's lying, plain and simple. What he says is exactly opposite to everything, EVERYTHING, he's said and done in the past. Those fools in the Sportsmen for Obama group need only to look at his record. If you don't really want to know, then don't investigate and just stay oblivious. But if you care, then make the effort to educate yourself about this guy.
Tommy Johnson
New member
I dont see his voting totally in left field although yes its left of center. Im sorry, READ what he says and not what you think he is saying. Common sense approach to making sure firearms dont fall into the hands of criminals and kids committing mass killings in schools.
I think a president that doesnt address the situation chalks it up as well a few kids are going to have to die and a few 7/11's are going to have to get robbed so we can selfishly own firearms with absolutely no common sense measures.
I think there is no reason for kids to get their hands on guns. If parents would do the right thing and lock up their firearms NONE of the unfortunate incidents we have seen in the past would have ever happened.
Criminals have no reason to have their hands on firearms. But yet any self respecting thug who is somebody has one.
I dont think you have anything to worry about. Go ahead and worry yourself to death over the issue. Yes, its not "anyone who wants one can have one" type of politicing. But it sure doesnt scream, "Im gonna unarm America".
I think a president that doesnt address the situation chalks it up as well a few kids are going to have to die and a few 7/11's are going to have to get robbed so we can selfishly own firearms with absolutely no common sense measures.
I think there is no reason for kids to get their hands on guns. If parents would do the right thing and lock up their firearms NONE of the unfortunate incidents we have seen in the past would have ever happened.
Criminals have no reason to have their hands on firearms. But yet any self respecting thug who is somebody has one.
I dont think you have anything to worry about. Go ahead and worry yourself to death over the issue. Yes, its not "anyone who wants one can have one" type of politicing. But it sure doesnt scream, "Im gonna unarm America".
Tommy Johnson
New member
In four years when we are voting for our guns again we'll recap the issue. MARK MY WORDS!!!
slicktree2
New member
Well I must be out of touch. My 14 yr. old who's been riding his bike out to go hunting for predators and deer for the last two years now owns a couple 22's, a 12 ga. a 223 a 50 cal. muzzleloader and this year he thinks he needs and is going to get a 7.62x54. He thinks he wants to spend his moonlight nights wacking yotes with the massive 54. I know I'm raising a crazed cereal killer but he has a good head on his shoulders and has been taught the difference between right and left, I mean wrong.
Attention deficit disorder is cured with a couple good slaps up alongside ones head Tommy.
OBAMA THINKS THE 2ND AMENDMENT IS OUTDATED. FUDGE HIM.
Attention deficit disorder is cured with a couple good slaps up alongside ones head Tommy.
OBAMA THINKS THE 2ND AMENDMENT IS OUTDATED. FUDGE HIM.
Savage270NM
New member
Quote:
I think there is no reason for kids to get their hands on guns. If parents would do the right thing and lock up their firearms NONE of the unfortunate incidents we have seen in the past would have ever happened.
So let's see, the house I grew up in had well over 20 firearms in it. All unlocked and most loaded, I killed a whole ZERO people in my whole life...
My firearms are within reach, several loaded and I GUARANTEE that my kids will not touch them. I have ways of knowing.
You're on the right path, it's the parents responsibility to teach and control their children, not the governments'. But there are many people who WANT the government to control, not only their children, but themselves. I personally want to continue my responsibilities to teach and control my children until they are to be on their own.
I think there is no reason for kids to get their hands on guns. If parents would do the right thing and lock up their firearms NONE of the unfortunate incidents we have seen in the past would have ever happened.
So let's see, the house I grew up in had well over 20 firearms in it. All unlocked and most loaded, I killed a whole ZERO people in my whole life...
My firearms are within reach, several loaded and I GUARANTEE that my kids will not touch them. I have ways of knowing.
You're on the right path, it's the parents responsibility to teach and control their children, not the governments'. But there are many people who WANT the government to control, not only their children, but themselves. I personally want to continue my responsibilities to teach and control my children until they are to be on their own.
Tommy Johnson
New member
Right and left, Ha good one slick. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Savage I did the same thing as a young man with younguns. My strongest Republican friends didnt even agree with me when they came over and they saw my guns in an unlocked cabinet in the living room for all to see. I campaigned for it being my right to store my guns as I see fit. As my kids began to grow, they're still young, momma had a way of getting in my head when my youngest daughter began walking and kept hanging out at my side of the bed where I stored my handgun between the matresses. Needless to say she got the majority on that vote. They are now locked away.
Its risky business savage how you conduct business. More power to you. Now say the unthinkable happened and one of your guns got loose and was used in a criminal act, should you be exonerated?
Savage I did the same thing as a young man with younguns. My strongest Republican friends didnt even agree with me when they came over and they saw my guns in an unlocked cabinet in the living room for all to see. I campaigned for it being my right to store my guns as I see fit. As my kids began to grow, they're still young, momma had a way of getting in my head when my youngest daughter began walking and kept hanging out at my side of the bed where I stored my handgun between the matresses. Needless to say she got the majority on that vote. They are now locked away.
Its risky business savage how you conduct business. More power to you. Now say the unthinkable happened and one of your guns got loose and was used in a criminal act, should you be exonerated?
Ackman
New member
Quote:
Right and left, Ha good one slick. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Savage I did the same thing as a young man with younguns. My strongest Republican friends didnt even agree with me when they came over and they saw my guns in an unlocked cabinet in the living room for all to see. I campaigned for it being my right to store my guns as I see fit. As my kids began to grow, they're still young, momma had a way of getting in my head when my youngest daughter began walking and kept hanging out at my side of the bed where I stored my handgun between the matresses. Needless to say she got the majority on that vote. They are now locked away.
Its risky business savage how you conduct business. More power to you. Now say the unthinkable happened and one of your guns got loose and was used in a criminal act, should you be exonerated?
That's all real fine, but it has nothing to do with how Obama and Biden feel about firearms and their sorry records. So don't be too smug about how you think it'll be in 4 years. I won't be laughing when you're proven wrong and neither will you. But guess what.....the damage will be done and it'll be too late. Those two will do more damage to this country than you can imagine. You're very naive. Maybe go stay at a Holiday Inn.
Right and left, Ha good one slick. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Savage I did the same thing as a young man with younguns. My strongest Republican friends didnt even agree with me when they came over and they saw my guns in an unlocked cabinet in the living room for all to see. I campaigned for it being my right to store my guns as I see fit. As my kids began to grow, they're still young, momma had a way of getting in my head when my youngest daughter began walking and kept hanging out at my side of the bed where I stored my handgun between the matresses. Needless to say she got the majority on that vote. They are now locked away.
Its risky business savage how you conduct business. More power to you. Now say the unthinkable happened and one of your guns got loose and was used in a criminal act, should you be exonerated?
That's all real fine, but it has nothing to do with how Obama and Biden feel about firearms and their sorry records. So don't be too smug about how you think it'll be in 4 years. I won't be laughing when you're proven wrong and neither will you. But guess what.....the damage will be done and it'll be too late. Those two will do more damage to this country than you can imagine. You're very naive. Maybe go stay at a Holiday Inn.
So the NRA rates him an "F" for no reason?? And his past voting record is no indication of what he'll do in the future?
Last time I was on Obama's own website, I couldn't find mention of the 2nd Amendment. Only talk of "common sense" gun laws under the urban policy section.
Please, for the sake of our country, yourself, and all other gun owners/hunters, PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND!
Last time I was on Obama's own website, I couldn't find mention of the 2nd Amendment. Only talk of "common sense" gun laws under the urban policy section.
Please, for the sake of our country, yourself, and all other gun owners/hunters, PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND!
Totch94
New member
Tommy,
This all comes down to one simple issue. You either believe the best way to accomplish things is for The citizens to run their own homes and lives or you think that the government can do a better job making decisions for you.
What exactly makes you think that Thugs who rob 7/11's will suddenly stop if there are more strict gun laws? There are 250 Million firearms in the US, the only way to keep them out of the hands of criminals is to impound ALL of them. That, my friend, aint going to happen. The better way to discourage the Thug is for him to believe that every 7/11 attendant might have a gun of their own and they could shoot his AZZ when he sticks them up.
Chicago has some of the most strict gun control laws in the country, it is also the murder capital of the country. There are more people being killed there than in Iraq. Those gun control laws are really gettin-r-done huh?????
Tommy, as I have said several times, I mean you no disrespect personally, and I believe that you are most intitled to your personal beliefs, but I am DEEPLY troubled that i'm having to discuss the ABC's of gun control with a MODERATOR here at PM. If you side with the BRADY group, that is your own decision, but I'm not sure you should be in a LEADERSHIP position with a PRO 2A site such as this.
This all comes down to one simple issue. You either believe the best way to accomplish things is for The citizens to run their own homes and lives or you think that the government can do a better job making decisions for you.
What exactly makes you think that Thugs who rob 7/11's will suddenly stop if there are more strict gun laws? There are 250 Million firearms in the US, the only way to keep them out of the hands of criminals is to impound ALL of them. That, my friend, aint going to happen. The better way to discourage the Thug is for him to believe that every 7/11 attendant might have a gun of their own and they could shoot his AZZ when he sticks them up.
Chicago has some of the most strict gun control laws in the country, it is also the murder capital of the country. There are more people being killed there than in Iraq. Those gun control laws are really gettin-r-done huh?????
Tommy, as I have said several times, I mean you no disrespect personally, and I believe that you are most intitled to your personal beliefs, but I am DEEPLY troubled that i'm having to discuss the ABC's of gun control with a MODERATOR here at PM. If you side with the BRADY group, that is your own decision, but I'm not sure you should be in a LEADERSHIP position with a PRO 2A site such as this.
vahunter
Active member
I forgot where I found this but here's a good one from someone who knows Obama
CHICAGO, Oct 15, 2008 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ -- The following is the text of an open letter to the nation's hunters and sportsmen issued today by Illinois State Rifle Association Executive Director Richard Pearson:
Fellow Sportsman,
Hello, my name is Rich Pearson and I have been active in the firearm rights movement for over 40 years. For the past 15 years, I have served in the Illinois state capitol as the chief lobbyist for the Illinois State Rifle Association.
I lobbied Barack Obama extensively while he was an Illinois State Senator. As a result of that experience, I know Obama's attitudes toward guns and gun owners better than anyone. The truth be told, in all my years in the Capitol I have never met a legislator who harbors more contempt for the law-abiding firearm owner than does Barack Obama.
Although Obama claims to be an advocate for the 2nd Amendment, his voting record in the Illinois Senate paints a very different picture. While a state senator, Obama voted for a bill that would ban nearly every hunting rifle, shotgun and target rifle owned by Illinois citizens. That same bill would authorize the state police to raid homes of gun owners to forcibly confiscate banned guns. Obama supported a bill that would shut down law-abiding firearm manufacturers including Springfield Armory, Armalite, Rock River Arms and Les Baer. Obama also voted for a bill that would prohibit law-abiding citizens from purchasing more than one gun per month.
Without a doubt, Barack Obama has proven himself to be an enemy of the law abiding firearm owner. At the same time, Obama has proven himself to be a friend to the hardened criminal. While a state senator, Obama voted 4 times against legislation that would allow a homeowner to use a firearm in defense of home and family.
Does Barack Obama still sound to you like a "friend" of the law-abiding gun owner?
And speaking of friends, you can always tell a person by the company they keep. Obama counts among his friends the Rev. Michael Pfleger - a renegade Chicago priest who has openly called for the murder of gun shop owners and pro-gun legislators. Then there is his buddy Richard Daley, the mayor of Chicago who has declared that if it were up to him, nobody would be allowed to own a gun. And let's not forget Obama's pal George Soros - the guy who has pumped millions of dollars into the UN's international effort to disarm law-abiding citizens.
Obama has shown that he is more than willing to use other people's money to fund his campaign to take your guns away from you. While a board member of the leftist Joyce Foundation, Barack Obama wrote checks for tens of millions of dollars to extremist gun control organizations such as the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence and the Violence Policy Center.
Does Barack Obama still sound to you like a "friend" of the law-abiding gun owner?
By now, I'm sure that many of you have received mailings from an organization called "American Hunters and Shooters Association(AHSA)" talking about what a swell fellow Obama is and how he honors the 2nd Amendment and how you will never have to worry about Obama coming to take your guns. Let me make it perfectly clear - everything the AHSA says about Obama is pure hogwash. The AHSA is headed by a group of left-wing elitists who subscribe to the British view of hunting and shooting. That is, a state of affairs where hunting and shooting are reserved for the wealthy upper-crust who can afford guided hunts on exclusive private reserves. The AHSA is not your friend, never will be.
In closing, I'd like to remind you that I'm a guy who has actually gone nose to nose with Obama on gun rights issues. The Obama I know cannot even begin to identify with this nation's outdoor traditions. The Obama I know sees you, the law abiding gun owner, as nothing but a low-class lummox who is easily swayed by the flash of a smile and a ration of rosy rhetoric. The Obama I know is a stony-faced liar who has honed his skill at getting what he wants - so long as people are willing to give it to him.
That's the Barack Obama I know.
CHICAGO, Oct 15, 2008 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ -- The following is the text of an open letter to the nation's hunters and sportsmen issued today by Illinois State Rifle Association Executive Director Richard Pearson:
Fellow Sportsman,
Hello, my name is Rich Pearson and I have been active in the firearm rights movement for over 40 years. For the past 15 years, I have served in the Illinois state capitol as the chief lobbyist for the Illinois State Rifle Association.
I lobbied Barack Obama extensively while he was an Illinois State Senator. As a result of that experience, I know Obama's attitudes toward guns and gun owners better than anyone. The truth be told, in all my years in the Capitol I have never met a legislator who harbors more contempt for the law-abiding firearm owner than does Barack Obama.
Although Obama claims to be an advocate for the 2nd Amendment, his voting record in the Illinois Senate paints a very different picture. While a state senator, Obama voted for a bill that would ban nearly every hunting rifle, shotgun and target rifle owned by Illinois citizens. That same bill would authorize the state police to raid homes of gun owners to forcibly confiscate banned guns. Obama supported a bill that would shut down law-abiding firearm manufacturers including Springfield Armory, Armalite, Rock River Arms and Les Baer. Obama also voted for a bill that would prohibit law-abiding citizens from purchasing more than one gun per month.
Without a doubt, Barack Obama has proven himself to be an enemy of the law abiding firearm owner. At the same time, Obama has proven himself to be a friend to the hardened criminal. While a state senator, Obama voted 4 times against legislation that would allow a homeowner to use a firearm in defense of home and family.
Does Barack Obama still sound to you like a "friend" of the law-abiding gun owner?
And speaking of friends, you can always tell a person by the company they keep. Obama counts among his friends the Rev. Michael Pfleger - a renegade Chicago priest who has openly called for the murder of gun shop owners and pro-gun legislators. Then there is his buddy Richard Daley, the mayor of Chicago who has declared that if it were up to him, nobody would be allowed to own a gun. And let's not forget Obama's pal George Soros - the guy who has pumped millions of dollars into the UN's international effort to disarm law-abiding citizens.
Obama has shown that he is more than willing to use other people's money to fund his campaign to take your guns away from you. While a board member of the leftist Joyce Foundation, Barack Obama wrote checks for tens of millions of dollars to extremist gun control organizations such as the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence and the Violence Policy Center.
Does Barack Obama still sound to you like a "friend" of the law-abiding gun owner?
By now, I'm sure that many of you have received mailings from an organization called "American Hunters and Shooters Association(AHSA)" talking about what a swell fellow Obama is and how he honors the 2nd Amendment and how you will never have to worry about Obama coming to take your guns. Let me make it perfectly clear - everything the AHSA says about Obama is pure hogwash. The AHSA is headed by a group of left-wing elitists who subscribe to the British view of hunting and shooting. That is, a state of affairs where hunting and shooting are reserved for the wealthy upper-crust who can afford guided hunts on exclusive private reserves. The AHSA is not your friend, never will be.
In closing, I'd like to remind you that I'm a guy who has actually gone nose to nose with Obama on gun rights issues. The Obama I know cannot even begin to identify with this nation's outdoor traditions. The Obama I know sees you, the law abiding gun owner, as nothing but a low-class lummox who is easily swayed by the flash of a smile and a ration of rosy rhetoric. The Obama I know is a stony-faced liar who has honed his skill at getting what he wants - so long as people are willing to give it to him.
That's the Barack Obama I know.
we already have well over 20,000 laws & regulations over our guns.
C'mon, Tommy, tell me just what it is we're missing to make everyone safer here? What "common sense" measures have we missed out on on?
The gun grabbers have ALWAYS said "we need common snese measure to yadda yadda yadda", & those measures always turn out to be bad for law abiding citizens. Gun bans, registration, one gun a month limits, banning concealed carry, the list goes on.
C'mon, Tommy, tell me just what it is we're missing to make everyone safer here? What "common sense" measures have we missed out on on?
The gun grabbers have ALWAYS said "we need common snese measure to yadda yadda yadda", & those measures always turn out to be bad for law abiding citizens. Gun bans, registration, one gun a month limits, banning concealed carry, the list goes on.
mspingy
New member
Let's see, a one minute and 40 sec video versus years of mad dog anti gun hatred.
Gee, how am I ever going to decided what is true?
Tommy, you should be ashamed to bring us this lying dogs' drivel regarding "gun rights."
I hereby am asking that the moderators at Predator Masters revoke your moderator status.
This is a very serious thing that you are continuing to do here.
You are a traitor toward the Second Amendment!
Gee, how am I ever going to decided what is true?
Tommy, you should be ashamed to bring us this lying dogs' drivel regarding "gun rights."
I hereby am asking that the moderators at Predator Masters revoke your moderator status.
This is a very serious thing that you are continuing to do here.
You are a traitor toward the Second Amendment!
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Javafour
New member
+1 Stu, et al.
The other part of this equation is that Obama will appoint judges, from the SCOTUS to the Federal Districts, who view the 2d Amendment as a collective, not individual right.
It is through the courts that the Obama-types get a lot of their dirty work done.
Anyone who votes for Obama doesn't understand the rationale underlying the 2d Amendment or the intent of our founders.
They had NOTHING in common with Obama and would have considered his policies 180 degrees contrary to their vision.
Also, anyone with an even basic grasp of the 10th Amendment would understand that gun laws, "common sense" or otherwise, are a state, not Federal, issue.
Surrendering one's freedom to an ever-stronger state is NEVER a good thing.
The other part of this equation is that Obama will appoint judges, from the SCOTUS to the Federal Districts, who view the 2d Amendment as a collective, not individual right.
It is through the courts that the Obama-types get a lot of their dirty work done.
Anyone who votes for Obama doesn't understand the rationale underlying the 2d Amendment or the intent of our founders.
They had NOTHING in common with Obama and would have considered his policies 180 degrees contrary to their vision.
Also, anyone with an even basic grasp of the 10th Amendment would understand that gun laws, "common sense" or otherwise, are a state, not Federal, issue.
Surrendering one's freedom to an ever-stronger state is NEVER a good thing.
Stealth1959
New member
TJ
Just keep drinking that obomba kool aid, you're almost there.
Just keep drinking that obomba kool aid, you're almost there.
