Merry Christmyth/Winter Solstice!

[azmastablasta]

Originally Posted By: YotecallrIt's sad to see so many people here who believe in the trinity doctrine, which is a non scriptural doctrine created in 325 AD. at the council of Nicea,and probably have been baptized in a non scriptural method too. Without going into a lot of scripture just think on this. Eph 4.5..."One Lord, one faith, one baptism " And think about this too, Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Ghost, so if you believe in the trinity, then that makes Jesus is the son of the Holy Ghost. 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

LOL, guess I shouldn't be surprised to see this issue brought up. See FW even Christians can disagree amongst themselves. I guess I am a bit surprised Yote that this would make you sad. It certainly has no affect on anyones eternal life. We believe one way you guys the other. Are either of us right? Who knows? For certain we will know for sure when we get there and believing either way is not a deal breaker, so cheer up, no sadness needed here.

In terms of number of adherents, nontrinitarian denominations comprise a small minority of modern Christianity. By far the largest nontrinitarian Christian denominations are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ("Mormons")and Jehovah's Witnesses which I'm certain you are most likely a member of one of these. I surely hope you've advanced past the stage that a great many in these two doctrines hold dear, that is, if you don't believe exactly like we do you ain't goin to heaven. I'm sure you noticed that while the word Trinity does not appear in scripture, neither does the name of ANY denomination other than Judaism. Hence Paul was sent to gather all us rough and tumble prior pagans into the fold.

I have had several conversations with both JW's and Mormons, each of us wielding our own scriptures which we believe completely debunks the other. And guess what, we all came away without changing our minds. It is the Holy Spirit who enlightens us to understand scripture. Without His aid none of us will ever clearly get it. YMMV.

So, don't you think we could all spend our time much more fruitfully than to ,get emotional and try to debunk each other on a public forum when the fields are so ripe for harvest with those who do not know Christ at all?

IMHO, the bottom line is that we get to heaven and spend eternity with Abba, our Father, not picken each other apart. What we believe, the minor stuff, is just not that important.

 

[azmastablasta]

Originally Posted By: swampwalkerSo basically, there's a very good chance Danny's in he11 or will be shortly. Meanwhile, if by chance his cheating whore wife happens to be exposed to the gospel, she as well as her "good catch" get to live on in eternal bliss. Seems fair

Swampy, don't get all hung up on what's fair or not. Fairness is not an attribute of God. And thank God it's not. If fairness was an attribute of God we'd all be sunk. The attributes of God are immutable, that is, not changeable. God today is exactly the same as the God of the Bible. In many people’s minds, fairness is everyone receiving exactly what he or she deserves. If God were completely “fair,” by this definition, we would all spend eternity in [beeep] paying for our sin, which is exactly what we deserve.

God is “fair” in that He is unbiased, honest, and just. Peter, standing in a Gentile’s home and seeing the work of the Holy Spirit, said, “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right” (Acts 10:34–35). God is eminently fair. He treats no one wrongly.

Those whom God has chosen are receiving God’s love and grace. But, when God draws our hearts and opens our minds, we have the opportunity to respond to the revelation of the creation around us and the conscience within us and turn to God. Those who do not respond will receive what they truly deserve because of their rejection of Him. Their punishment is fair. Those who believe are receiving far better than they deserve. No one, though, is being punished beyond what he or she deserves. Is God fair? Yes. He is also gracious, merciful, and forgiving.

As in the case of Danny, bad things happen, even to good people which are not directly caused by God. It could be posed, although incorrectly, that it is the fault of God due to the fact that He gave His creation, humans, the gift of Free Will. The wife in this instance made the decision she made, based on what seems to be self-centeredness and selfishness. God didn't directly cause her to leave.

Without Free Will we would all be acting as pre-programmed robots created by God. So yes, we're free to choose the wrong things, driving drunk, smoking cigarettes, doing dumb stupid things that hurt and possibly kill us and, unfortunately other people.

No my friend, I for one am eternally grateful that fairness is not an attribute of God.

 

[Yotecallr]

Obedience to the Apostles doctrine is the only doctrine that will save you.

It's called Biblical salvation.

 

[sandy hicks]

Gods justice= getting what we deserve

Gods Grace= getting much better than we deserve

You can be saved by the Grace of God if you accept it.

 

[azmastablasta]

I respect your belief there Yote, but help me out here. Please tell me who Jesus was praying to in the Garden of Gethsemane the night before His crucifixion, Luke 22 : 39-44 39And he came out and went, as was his custom, to the Mount of Olives, and the disciples followed him. 40And when he came to the place, he said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” 41And he withdrew from them about a stone’s throw, and knelt down and prayed, 42saying, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.” 43And there appeared to him an angel from heaven, strengthening him. 44And being in agony he prayed more earnestly; and his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Who was He speaking to when on the cross he said " “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

Also in Luke 23:46 why in the world would He say "46Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.

Of course there's always that confusing phrase in John 14:28. ' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I. '

Again in Matthew 27:46 we're told about about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” Here, Jesus was expressing His feelings of abandonment as God placed the sins of the world on Him – and because of that, God had to “turn away” from Jesus. As Jesus was feeling that weight of sin, He was experiencing a separation from God for the only time in all of eternity. This was also a fulfillment of the prophetic statement in Psalm 22:1.

Maybe you can help me understand this statement “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing” (Luke 23:34). Those who crucified Jesus were not aware of the full scope of what they were doing because they did not recognize Him as the Messiah. While their ignorance of divine truth did not mean they deserved forgiveness, Christ’s prayer in the midst of their mocking Him is an expression of the limitless compassion of divine grace.

Yote I am not mocking I am sincerely asking, if you and your denomination believe that Jesus is the only God, hence there is no Father, how do you explain these scriptures? Help me understand. And how do you guys view the Holy Spirit? I don't expect an immediate answer. If you need to get some answers from your Pastor that's fine, I'll wait. I know these are some reasonably deep theological questions and the average pew sitter may not have pat answers. But I'm sincere and would like a reply. Thanks.

 

[tnshootist]

John 3:16,3:17 and 3:18 is pretty plain.

 

[IAyoteHNTR]

Might as well leave one more truth bomb for all of my religious friends here.........

Gods have been man made for over 100,000 years.

 

[Willy Brotz]

Originally Posted By: Rocky1I don't know but I've seen several instances of divine power of late, that simply can't be explained by science.

-- Bought a couple cutting boards at TJ Maxx awhile back to saw up for turning stock. Went looking for Olive Wood Cutting Boards as they typically have some pretty decent stuff. Only had a couple olive boards on the shelf, one was pretty blah, so I wound up with one Olive and one Acacia board. They've laid in the shop for a month or two now. Decided to turn the preacher a pen with a cross clip on it for Christmas. Remembered Olive had significant biblical reference and it was really cool stock, so I turned his pen out of a piece of the olive cutting board. Wife said I had to turn something for his wife as well. So I looked up "biblical references to wood", to see what else I might have to make a "Holy" gift of. First result on Google suggested 72 references to wood in the bible, so I picked that one, thinking I had to find something therein that I had in the shop. First 5 references listed - "Acacia".

Science cannot explain such things. It can't even answer the age old question... What are the odds?


-- Sister-in-law said she's had it, living in a 50 year old double wide, house is rotting down around them, brother doesn't have the ambition or money to fix everything. She IS GOING TO HAVE A NICER HOME, IF SHE HAS TO BUY THE [beeep] THING HERSELF! Had my father go with her to look at a newer mobile home couple weeks before Christmas. Before they get the loan papers drawn up and signed, brother gets a notice that an old friend and fellow band member had passed away. Guy always had a little money, always told all his buddies in the band that when he passed away, he was going to leave them some of it! So they held off to see what he was leaving them, and how to draw up the loan. Brother said he figured, "Yeah OK, I'll maybe get a guitar and a couple grand." Seems the old boy was worth a WHOLE LOT MORE than they thought. Left his kid about half of it, split the remainder amongst 20 of his buddies, each got a check for $45,000, 2 days before Christmas, while the brother and sister-in-law are dealing on a new home.

Science cannot explain such things... can't even begin to tell you what the odds are.


-- Gal that worked for us a few years back texted me the other day, says she's coming through my home town down here in Florida in few days. Asked if I was going to come see her, and meet her mother? Know her dad and step-mother well, never met Mom. I told her, "Absolutely! Give me a shout when you get to town." She texts me yesterday says they're on the way. Was going to meet them out on 90, they were traveling down 75. She texts and says plans have changed, they're going to jump off on 10. Told her that was better yet, 15 minutes to the Interstate that way, saved me having to drive clear across town. Gave her directions to the only restaurant on this end of town, right off the Interstate, open 24 hours. I get there, no sign of them, call and they're on the off ramp, so waited all of about a minute.

They pull in the parking lot, she jumps out runs across the parking lot and gives me a big hug. Mom walks up, she's mid-40s, brunette, beautiful woman, borderline modelish, slim build, sportin a set of 38 Double Ds. Kid introduces us, I extend my hand, and she says...

"Oh no; I'm a hugger, I hope you don't mind."

To which I immediately replied, "Oh he11 no, that ain't gonna bother me at all."

While thinking, "YES!!!! THERE IS A GOD!!!!"

No amount of science can explain that one either! But it was great!!



This is strange. So some rich guy leaves some trailer trash a few thousand bucks and you claim that's gods work? These few pages on this topic just proved there is no 1 god. Not even the bible thumpers agree on the myth. I can't believe this is a hunting forum. Why can't you just believe and keep it between you and yourselves? Wait until muslims take over and start spewing the same garbage. Will their word carry as much weight if they write their idea of a constitution? Who thinks the earth is 5 billion years old? Who thinks it's 6200 years old? Actually you did witness a miracle. Who thought a double wide would last 50 years. Better hang you hat on that miracle than the other garbage.

 

[azmastablasta]

Willy, this forum, COTPT, the one you're posting on is not a hunting forum. It is an open forum to discuss at will anything we wish. You sound a little sensitive there snowflake. Maybe you should restrict your viewing to the other sub forums that don't scare your genteel feelings so bad. MmmKKK newbie? It's painfully obvious you ain't ready to run with the big dogs yet, and you know the view from a pup's viewpoint at the back of the pack is always the same. I'm just sayin.

 

[tnshootist]

Some just can't see past religion.
I guess if you are hunting an excuse for yourself landing on Religion is as good as any.
At one time I sort of excused myself because religion was not always perfect or understood.
Then one day I figured out it is not about religion at all.
Jesus is what it is about.

No one has ever been able to make much of an argument that Jesus is not the real deal.
All they can come up with is a couple pictures off Face Book.
It is good to have the chance to publicly testify. Perhaps that is the purpose of professed atheists.
Without the OP I would have not had so good a chance to say I believe.

I can understand why atheists feel like they are enlightened smart people.Ole scratch couldn't catch them if he didn't use tricks and lies.

 

[azmastablasta]

Amen John, seems Ole IA hater did a good favor to help spread the word and I'm certain that was not his intention. Sorta backfired huh? Not only that his pot stirring brought another snowflake out of the closet, his mother's closet in the basement I'm sure. LOL, tell em willy boy is here...LOL

 

[Infidel 762]

Originally Posted By: Willy BrotzThis is strange. So some rich guy leaves some trailer trash a few thousand bucks and you claim that's gods work? These few pages on this topic just proved there is no 1 god. Not even the bible thumpers agree on the myth. I can't believe this is a hunting forum. Why can't you just believe and keep it between you and yourselves? Wait until muslims take over and start spewing the same garbage. Will their word carry as much weight if they write their idea of a constitution? Who thinks the earth is 5 billion years old? Who thinks it's 6200 years old? Actually you did witness a miracle. Who thought a double wide would last 50 years. Better hang you hat on that miracle than the other garbage.

Nah, if Muslims ever took over you not need to worry about anything, for you would be missing your head. Their constitution is Sharia law, under which you would not be able to spew your garbage without your head. Yet maybe you should consider what you would do if Muslims ever did take over here. I don't consider it for I would be dead before I would see that. I'm sure if you found a good place to hide you would be able to see for yourself if their words carried weight.

Maybe you could even start your own hunting forum that would generate endless pages of proof to hang your other hats on... just don't trip over any miracles getting there..

 

[Lazerus]

Actually iaHATER, I DID choose my religion as do millions around the world. But don't let facts get in the way of your ignorance. But since you brought it up, what religion are you? You seem to be of the opinion that we don't have the ability to choose and are whatever our parents were. So your parents are atheists? Feel free to man up and admit you got caught in another lie.

Or quick, post another irrelevant picture that truly shows how uneducated you can be.

and Willy......willy willy willy. Are you REALLY confused about coming to a hunting forum that is populated mostly(not all) by conservatives and finding them defending Christianity when some loon insults them?

REALLY???????

The quickest way to spot a fraud and a troll is when they say something so stupid you have to wonder if they even speak English or are using a translator program.

 

[Fursniper]

Originally Posted By: IAyoteHNTRMight as well leave one more truth bomb for all of my religious friends here.........

Gods have been man made for over 100,000 years.

You can't hang your hat on science. Science cannot prove what I ate for lunch 2 weeks ago on Wednesday. However, a couple of eye witnesses and a sales receipt from the restaurant can. Likewise, science cannot prove the existence of God, but several eye witnesses and a calendar based on the death of Jesus can.

When a law enforcement investigator receives a written statement from an eye witness, that written statement becomes tangible physical evidence that is admissible in a court of law. Only first hand witness information is admissible in court, second hand or hearsay information is not.

The New Testament is mostly a collaboration of written statements from several eye witnesses with first hand information. They documented what they saw Jesus do, their conversations with him, and his teachings. The New Testament is the only bible written by people with first hand information. It is not hearsay or something written through a prophet. It is amazing how this information continues to be minimized and censored to prevent people from knowing the truth.

There has only been 1 God that has ever proven he exists. Jesus told us who he was and performed the impossible in front of thousands of people to prove it.

When Jesus died, the impact of his death resulted in resetting our calendar to the year 1 in every country around the world. Think about that for a moment. How astronomically enormous would an event have to be in today's society to reset our calendar to the year 1 again? That is not something a man can do unless he was Jesus and possessed special abilities.

 

[IAyoteHNTR]

Originally Posted By: FursniperYou can't hang your hat on science. Science cannot prove what I ate for lunch 2 weeks ago on Wednesday. However, a couple of eye witnesses and a sales receipt from the restaurant can. Likewise, science cannot prove the existence of God, but several eye witnesses and a calendar based on the death of Jesus can.

When a law enforcement investigator receives a written statement from an eye witness, that written statement becomes tangible physical evidence that is admissible in a court of law. Only first hand witness information is admissible in court, second hand or hearsay information is not.

The New Testament is mostly a collaboration of written statements from several eye witnesses with first hand information. They documented what they saw Jesus do, their conversations with him, and his teachings. The New Testament is the only bible written by people with first hand information. It is not hearsay or something written through a prophet. It is amazing how this information continues to be minimized and censored to prevent people from knowing the truth.

There has only been 1 God that has ever proven he exists. Jesus told us who he was and performed the impossible in front of thousands of people to prove it.

When Jesus died, the impact of his death resulted in resetting our calendar to the year 1 in every country around the world. Think about that for a moment. How astronomically enormous would an event have to be in today's society to reset our calendar to the year 1 again? That is not something a man can do unless he was Jesus and possessed special abilities.

But I do hang my hat on science, and I do it knowing that science can and will change it's stance on known facts and/or hypothesis and theories that stand up to the rigors of scientific review. As far as the Jesus thing, The writings you speak of were absolutely NOT examples of actual eyewitness accounts and were definitely hearsay, written decades after the supposed death of Jesus.

I'll leave this tidbit from Raphael Lataster, he is a lecturer in religious studies at the University of Sydney. He is author of There Was No Jesus, There Is No God............

Paul’s Epistles, written earlier than the Gospels, give us no reason to dogmatically declare Jesus must have existed. Avoiding Jesus’ earthly events and teachings, even when the latter could have bolstered his own claims, Paul only describes his “Heavenly Jesus.” Even when discussing what appear to be the resurrection and the last supper, his only stated sources are his direct revelations from the Lord, and his indirect revelations from the Old Testament. In fact, Paul actually rules out human sources (see Galatians 1:11-12).

Also important are the sources we don’t have. There are no existing eyewitness or contemporary accounts of Jesus. All we have are later descriptions of Jesus’ life events by non-eyewitnesses, most of whom are obviously biased. Little can be gleaned from the few non-Biblical and non-Christian sources, with only Roman scholar Josephus and historian Tacitus having any reasonable claim to be writing about Jesus within 100 years of his life. And even those sparse accounts are shrouded in controversy, with disagreements over what parts have obviously been changed by Christian scribes (the manuscripts were preserved by Christians), the fact that both these authors were born after Jesus died (they would thus have probably received this information from Christians), and the oddity that centuries go by before Christian apologists start referencing them.

So what do the mainstream (and non-Christian) scholars say about all this? Surprisingly very little – of substance anyway. Only Bart Ehrman and Maurice Casey have thoroughly attempted to prove Jesus’ historical existence in recent times. Their most decisive point? The Gospels can generally be trusted – after we ignore the many, many bits that are untrustworthy – because of the hypothetical (i.e. non-existent) sources behind them. Who produced these hypothetical sources? When? What did they say? Were they reliable? Were they intended to be accurate historical portrayals, enlightening allegories, or entertaining fictions? Ehrman and Casey can’t tell you – and neither can any New Testament scholar. Given the poor state of the existing sources, and the atrocious methods used by mainstream Biblical historians, the matter will likely never be resolved. In sum, there are clearly good reasons to doubt Jesus’ historical existence – if not to think it outright improbable.

You're welcome to look up the latest research by Ehrman and Casey if you'd like. It makes for a good read.

I'm sure this will have no effect on your beliefs, and that's fine, but understand this, until I see credible evidence in the existence of the supposed man named Jesus who walked on water

and rose from the dead (double

) I feel no reason to suspend my reason.

Most of main points that are the story of Jesus are nothing more than rewrites from earlier forms of religious texts anyway. Look at all the similarities between him and Horus. To many religious liberals and skeptics, it appears obvious that the early beliefs that grew up around Jesus' life were copied from the myths surrounding Horus' life which had been circulating for millennia before Jesus' birth. Just a coincidence huh?

 

[tnshootist]

And the Holocaust never happened.
Man never landed on the moon.
The towers were taken down by bombs not airplanes.
There will always be a few disjointed people that will claim they have proof of most anything.
Your arguments are weak.
Some man no one ever heard of from Sydney you believe.
You have great faith. It is however misplaced.
You know something greater than science is out there. You can feel it. Every man can feel it.
That feeling that something is pulling at you. That thing you try so hard to deny.
You know it's there. The proof of that is in trying so hard to prove it's not.
You know you could care less how I believe.
It's not me you are trying to convince.
It's yourself.

 

[swampwalker]

lets remember, the religious experts of the day (who were actually there and witnessed the supposed miracles) did not buy into them. Putting this point aside. How in the world does brutaly sacrificing a human Being appease a loving God? According to the scriptures, Jesus was well aware of his divinity and even showed it off sometimes. That being the case, as painful as being crucified is, knowing that you're an omnipotent being, kinda takes the sting out of it. Don't you think? I mean, Jesus's experience was not that of the thousands that the Romans regularly strung up.. IF true, he had the upper hand. Crucifiction would be nothing but a brief interlude of discomfort AKA (a bad day) for an omnipotent being.

Scapegoating was the ancient Jewish practice, where the villagers gathered around a goat and casted their evil spirits and sins onto it. After that, they threw it off a cliff. This act Saved the village.. Hooray!!! (Of course, for a small priest and goat fee) now, with this said, let's ask ourselves a couple questions.

1) Does this sound familiar

2) Did the village get saved?

3) is this a system that's Advocated by the creator of the universe?

 

[tnshootist]

Nope thats not my understanding.
Jesus was flesh,he felt the pain. Same as all the others.
He also carried the weight of the sins of man present and future.
It does take some open minded critical thinking to understand it all. But you have to remember you are trying to understand the greatest event to ever take place. There fore some things might be a little hard to figure if you really want to get into the details.
I used to wonder why children I helped get out of wrecks and other terrible things I saw was allowed to happen.
The answer I came up with after interrupted sleep and much pondering is that God knows why.It is not necessary that I know why. He knows what lays ahead. Maybe he spares them from the future. I don't know.
There will always be things we just don't understand in this life.
Thats one of the things I look forward to.Getting answers I hope.
One thing I have thought might explain some of the things I have seen over the last 60 years is that even a long life here is only a fading spark in relation to the next life. Just my thought but maybe He is concerned with the life in eternity more that the short spark of time we have here.
One thing I can say for sure.God knows what he is doing and to expect to understand everything He does would make a persons head explode.
All these things said what it always comes back to is faith. He wants us to have faith and trust Him.
It's easier to understand that part if you have been in situations that were completely out of human control and there was no where to turn except to Him.NOWHERE to find any help except Him.
Before the next question comes up,sometimes He says no or not now. All prayers are answered.

 

[swampwalker]

"Need open minded critical thinking to understand" scapegoating? Look, let's be honest here. None of this involves open mindedness or critical thinking. These are rather large leaps of faith for one to take. As far as the "greatest event to have ever have taken place" comment. Had I been there, ( with my atheism ) I'd felt obligated to do everything within my power to stop this Barbarity from occurring...of course all reason would have been thrown out the window. As what good would it have done to argue logic, science and morals with a Bronze Age Jewish high priest.

 

[Lazerus]

Religion, by its very definition is a faith based venture. I can no more "prove" to you that it is real as you can prove to me that it isn't.

Should you be mocked for your inability to disprove religion?

With that said, lets play by YOUR rules for a minute.

Answer me this VERY simple science question(since science is infallible and always true, otherwise why would someone with such a superior intellect as you "hang your hat on it").

Is global warming caused by man? And THEN, if you are feeling really froggy, go ahead and answer if global warming is even real.

It is a FACT that there are some VERY prominent "scientists" who have made OPPOSITE statements of "indisputable fact" regarding this topic based on "their "evidence" and SCIENCE".

So who do YOU believe iaHATER? Is it real or is it not?

You see my friend, if you choose to mock religion, you are in fact mocking yourself. You BELIEVE in the religion of science. It is just as faith based as any other religion. But being the learned and wise man that you are, no doubt you already knew this.

Yet you still mock.

reminds me of a certain Southpark episode....

is it you iaHATER?

Oh those silly beavers......