Merry Christmyth/Winter Solstice!

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Swampy....We can't put our faith in men. Thomas Jefferson not only stated the things you posted, he also put these statements in writing.

Quote:THOMAS JEFFERSON

SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; DIPLOMAT; GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA; SECRETARY OF STATE; THIRD PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man.63

The practice of morality being necessary for the well being of society, He [God] has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral principles of Jesus and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in His discourses.64

I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others.65

I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.66



63. Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Bergh, editor (Washington, D. C.: Thomas Jefferson Memorial Assoc., 1904), Vol. XV, p. 383, to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse on June 26, 1822.

64. Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Alberty Ellery Bergh, editor (Washington D.C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XII, p. 315, to James Fishback, September 27, 1809.

65. Thomas Jefferson, Memoir, Correspondence, and Miscellanies from the Papers of Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Randolph, editor (Boston: Grey & Bowen, 1830), Vol. III, p. 506, to Benjamin Rush, April 21, 1803.

66. Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Ellery Bergh, editor (Washington, D.C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XIV, p. 385, to Charles Thomson on January 9, 1816


http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=8755#R66


 
Originally Posted By: IAyoteHNTROriginally Posted By: FursniperOriginally Posted By: IAyoteHNTRI'll leave this tidbit from Raphael Lataster, he is a lecturer in religious studies at the University of Sydney. He is author of There Was No Jesus, There Is No God............

Apparently, Raphael Lataster's peers at the Sydney University don't even support him. This link disqualifies everything you wrote in that prior post.

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2014/12/24/4154120.htm


Happy New Year!


Yep, and the author of your little linked article is an over the top christian aopoligist, therefore very skewed, therefore disqualifies your whole attempt at any type of valid rebuttal. Typical.
rolleyes.gif



Well, that about sums up your mentality. Your argument is based on the already proven false writings of a COLLEGE STUDENT, and instead of admitting you were wrong(like a real man would do), you DOUBLE DOWN??????????????

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW......

I am sure you still think Hillary "won", don't you ....lol

Does it hurt much? Does it? The brain cramps must be unbearable.

oh man I am hurting from laughing so hard at you.
 
Attention please! Paging Mr Yotecallr! This is earth calling Mr. Yotecallr. CHIRP..CHIRP...CHIRP

Umm if you are being held captive by a cult please give us a sign. Thankfully Janet Reno has left the building but there may be FBI agents surrounding your compound as we speak. I know it can be embarrassing to have been led down the path of false doctrine by cult leaders but it's time to step into the light of biblical truth.
 
Originally Posted By: FursniperSwampy....We can't put our faith in men. Thomas Jefferson not only stated the things you posted, he also put these statements in writing.

Quote:THOMAS JEFFERSON

SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; DIPLOMAT; GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA; SECRETARY OF STATE; THIRD PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man.63

The practice of morality being necessary for the well being of society, He [God] has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral principles of Jesus and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in His discourses.64

I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others.65

I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.66



63. Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Bergh, editor (Washington, D. C.: Thomas Jefferson Memorial Assoc., 1904), Vol. XV, p. 383, to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse on June 26, 1822.

64. Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Alberty Ellery Bergh, editor (Washington D.C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XII, p. 315, to James Fishback, September 27, 1809.

65. Thomas Jefferson, Memoir, Correspondence, and Miscellanies from the Papers of Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Randolph, editor (Boston: Grey & Bowen, 1830), Vol. III, p. 506, to Benjamin Rush, April 21, 1803.

66. Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Ellery Bergh, editor (Washington, D.C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XIV, p. 385, to Charles Thomson on January 9, 1816


http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=8755#R66




Look, Thomas Jefferson as I, believed Jesus to be mortal like the rest of us. Does this diminish any of his teachings? I've read a decent amount of the Bible and that is also my interpretation. Jesus's downfall was that he lived in a crappy place during a bygone era. For that he ultimately payed with his life. If things unraveled as purported, When Jesus asked "father why have you forsaken thee?" then died shortly there after. That was just one more instance where God's hand failed to show up. IN MY OPINION

The Bible to me, gives us the rare view into the mixed up mind of a bronze aged middle eastern goat herder. (Its understandable to take pen to paper and vent. As living in that kinda environment must've been hella frustrating to say the least). It's a document that shares their thoughts about the workings of the world. I say this as not to ridicule, how could they have known the earth was not made in seven days or that those little specks of light in the sky are actually the light of suns billions of miles away? How could they have known about governing democracies and republics, when all they were ever exposed to were brutal kings and emperors? Had they been, perhaps the books would have been written a bit differently.

Luckily, we don't need religions or books to issue our morals. They're inherent in us. otherwise, we never would have made it this far withought them. There once was a time not to long ago, when "humans" weren't human as we are today. Though they couldn't talk, or pass on religious beliefs, they cared for their young and stuck together. The crooks, A-holes and free loaders didn't last long...that is my lineage, not Adam and Eve.
 
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Consider this.
God don't use a calendar.
You keep mixing up men in Gods work.
There may be things about the Bible that anyone can take issue with but it is the best guide we have.
Consider this also. Perhaps the Bible tells us what we need to know,not everything there is to know.

I can't get my head around the fact that space goes forever but we know it does.
Some things you just know even if you can't understand how it can be.

The Bible tells us God created the Heavens and Earth. It does not explain in detail how he did it. If it did do you think man has the capacity to understand something like that?

It tells us in the most simple terms how to get to Heaven yet so many struggle to understand that.
 
Quote:Look, Thomas Jefferson as I, believed Jesus to be mortal like the rest of us. Does this diminish any of his teachings? I've read a decent amount of the Bible and that is also my interpretation. Jesus's downfall was that he lived in a crappy place during a bygone era. For that he ultimately payed with his life. If things unraveled as purported, When Jesus asked "father why have you forsaken thee?" then died shortly there after. That was just one more instance where God's hand failed to show up. IN MY OPINION

The Bible to me, gives us the rare view into the mixed up mind of a bronze aged middle eastern goat herder. (Its understandable to take pen to paper and vent. As living in that kinda environment must've been hella frustrating to say the least). It's a document that shares their thoughts about the workings of the world. I say this as not to ridicule, how could they have known the earth was not made in seven days or that those little specks of light in the sky are actually the light of suns billions of miles away? How could they have known about governing democracies and republics, when all they were ever exposed to were brutal kings and emperors? Had they been, perhaps the books would have been written a bit differently.

Luckily, we don't need religions or books to issue our morals. They're inherent in us. otherwise, we never would have made it this far withought them. There once was a time not to long ago, when "humans" weren't human as we are today. Though they couldn't talk, or pass on religious beliefs, they cared for their young and stuck together. The crooks, A-holes and free loaders didn't last long...that is my lineage, not Adam and Eve.


Swampy...I believe there are others that share similar thoughts to yours. I had some of the same myself. Thanks for being honest about your interpretations and bringing them to this thread. Here is some info to consider.

The Old Testament is all about God is coming. The New Testament is about what happened when he did. Jesus' life was based on fulfilling a script that was written in the Old testament. What happened to Jesus was predicted to happen.

There were hundreds of prophecies that were described in the Old Testament that were fulfilled as Jesus lived his life on earth. There are way too many to be a coincidence. Half of the prophecies were beyond Jesus' control to fulfill and he did.

One of the prophecies that Jesus fulfilled was that there is eternal life. Jesus had to die first and then conquer death to do that.

Jesus was crucified when he never committed any crimes. He is the only person that was able to live his life on earth to the standards of what God considers to be a good person.

Here is the other purpose why Jesus died. He was persecuted because of the sin nature of man. The leaders wanted him killed because of their greed for power over the people. Jesus took the sins of the world and put them on his shoulders so that we could be forgiven. That is, for those who believe in Him.
 
What do you think the sun is? It's a medium sized star...One of about a hundred billion. In a medium sized galaxy, of which there's a couple hundred billion that we can see..
 
Curious to know where you believe all those suns came from.
The Big Bang?
OK. Where did the stuff come from to make the big bang?
Keep going back. Where did the stuff that made the stuff come from.
It looks to me like logic would finally tell a person that there must be a creator.
 
One sun one moon. The rest are stars. You see, you dont believe in God and Jesus, I dont believe half of the stuff in science books. Most of it is stuff that is dreamed up that cannot be substantiated. Just theory. Hence, the theory of evolution. You may have been a snail at one time but I was created.
 
I suppose Jupiter, mars, Venus and every other celestial body doesn't exist either. WOW... okay you got me.. what is the definition of a star?
 
Originally Posted By: swampwalkerwhat is the definition of a star?
Anything man wants it to be based on his stupidity at the time?


Astronomy software can used to rewind the sky to determine what the position of the stars were thousands of years ago and what the sky looked like from anywhere on the surface the earth. What caused the bright light in the sky over Bethlehem when Jesus was born was determined using this technology. Which stars lined up also matched what was prophesized in the Old Testament. Also, what the sky looked like at the precise time of Jesus' death match what was documented in both the Old and New Testament.

Here is a video documentary about it.

 
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Wow I've been gone a few days and surprised at the amount of replies to this. Really makes me glad to see a bunch of christians standing up for what they believe and trying to educate someone that everything the have been taught in school is not accurate. I'm sorry swampwalker your lineage as well as mine begins with Adam and Eve. Not apes. We're both created by God on purpose....not the result of pond scum basking in the sun for billions of years. Didn't read your whole post but did catch where you felt Jesus was let down by God when He was on the cross. I feel like your missing some information and that is Jesus cannot be let down by God because he is God. Jesus was fulfilling the path to salvation which was prophesized in tthrough out the Old Testament. first verse in the Bible states that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. If you can believe that verse than there is nothing in the Bible that you cannot believe. If you can't than there is nothing in the Bible that you can believe. Just remember that everyone believes in God. Atheists just think they are god as nothing can begreater than themselves.
 
Good points Dholsapple. I am constantly reminded of the intricacies involved just to make this planet habitable. In terms of space, just a few degrees more or less of tilt on the earth axis would result in an uninhabitable earth. A few miles closer or farther from the sun would produce the same results. If gravity were increased slightly we would be crushed under our own weight. The amount and percentage of oxygen, if tweaked slightly would preclude life. Think of all the intricate details of the animal world. I was watching a new TV series tonight called Safari Live. Excellent show, the scientist was examining the lowly dung beetle. I watched them with fascination since I was a kid. He showed under the microscope the one element that allows this beetle to survive, that is a type of mite. Without these mites the beetle could never find the dung necessary to lay it's eggs and further it's kind. He showed a type of bird with a long beak, just the right length, with sensitive nerve endings at the tip of its beak to allow it to feel the precise wave lengths produced by the particular worm on which it survives. We could go on for hours about the symbiotic relationships necessary for any entity to survive.

The theory of evolution has been soundly defeated by the scientific world itself. Never, not one time has any specie fossil been found to be an in-between example showing evolution occurring. And no scientist has ever been able to generate life where none existed in any specie micro or macro. They would have us believe that we were descendents of apes? Based on what evidence? No one has found the elusive missing link. In fact all the drawings and models of prehistoric humans are simply the figment of some atheistic scientist. The skeletons shown in museums of early man are in fact not of fossilized bone, they're plaster or plastic. Why is that you ask? Because the total amount of fossilized early human bones discovered to date would fit into a good sized box. Never, not once has a complete skeleton been found. Not once has a complete skull been found. The renowned scientists start with a few chunks and create what they think that humanoid would surely have looked like. It's a farce but don't expect the msm to tell you about it. They know how gullible people are and need to find ways to renew their grant money.

No one, even the world's foremost researchers can explain how matter was first created, after all one of the basic laws is that it cannot be created or destroyed. (That is, not by man). But yet they all want to believe that somehow, someway we were simply lucky that just the right conditions existed at a far distant date and it just happened...just that one time.

So let me ask you naysayers, you non-believers to help me figure some odds here. My fetching wife bought me a very expensive tactical watch for Christmas (you know that holiday when we celebrate the birthday of Jesus?). All kind of fancy protections, waterproof to 1000 ft, etc. Lifetime guarantee. While studying the internal characteristics there seem to be a huge number of minute, fragile parts that must be positioned just so in order to operate. For the sake of argument, let's say I disassemble the watch entirely. Put all the pieces in a brown paper bag and shake the crap out of that bag, open it, and dump it on the table. How many times or how many lifetimes must I shake up those parts until finally, one time, I dump on the table a fully functioning watch?

Now granted the watch is a complicated item, but nowhere near as complicated as the universe and everything in it. And yet you want to think that it was all mere chance. That no Supreme Creator was there to shake a huge universe size brown bag? No one majestic, powerful creator created all this with intent? If you truly are gullible enough to believe that it was mere chance then I fail to understand how someone that dense can even manage to feed themself. Sorry, but I'm just sayin.
 
Saying "God did it" will get you laughed out of court. Meanwhile, DNA evidence continues to put criminals to death. It is the highest form of proof we have.. DNA has proved Humans and chimpanzees share 98% exact DNA. Explain that? The remaining 2% Occured during 6,000,000 years time, since we broke off from one another. Now to clarify, we never were apes and chimps never were humans. We share a common ancestor that was neither. Now, If man can breed a grey wolf into a chiwahua over a relatively short time. What do you think nature can do in millions of years.?? With DNA evidence, either we mostly evolved together or God went way, way, way out of his way making it look that way..a ridiculous notion.

Blasta brought up a good point about the intricacies of life on our planet and what are the odds? Well, that brings us back to the trillions of stars (suns to put into perspective) out there. You see, circling some of those suns are what's called "planets". Through the use of very sensitive equipment, Astronomers have been able to locate and name over 10,000 of these far off planets. The vast majority of them reside outside the "habitable" zone that's been mentioned. some of these planets however, meet the requirements of where life could possibly exist... Now I'm not a mathematician, but when you take into consideration the vastness of space and the trillions of planets out there, it seems that those "what are the odds?" Chances of having a nice cozy environment such as Earth's, go way up. infact, it's pretty much excepted that the chances are so good that not only are we not alone, but that there are many, many advanced beings out there. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending how you look at it, (due to the unimaginable immensity of space) there ain't a chance in he11 we'll ever get to meet up and talk about it....(which opens up a whole other can of beans)..

There's a bit more bones and evidence then a shoe box's worth, but either way, a general Lack of bone fossils can be explained by decomposition, weather and time. It generally takes unique situations for fossils to occur and the chances of uncovering the body of an "intact missing link" that stumbled into such a situation would be extraordinarily rare find. Remember we're talking about millions of years here. Expecting Anything to survive, biological material nonetheless is asking a lot.

Anyway, I'm getting bored of this topic. I'll continue to answer your questions about evolution if you want, but think maybe it's time to get back onto subjects that we agree on
 
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Breed a wolf and a dog and there are puppies... an ape and a human cannot reproduce. You act like through mutations you get something stronger when in fact only weaker. I don't remember the name of the worm and didn't take time to look it up but we share 99% match DNA to it. So is that work the missing link between apes and humans? Humans have something no animal has and that is called a soul. It's like your conscience, the voice in your head, your thinking process, it's what makes you you and it's what lives onfor eternally. Animals do not have it since it's what God put in us when he created us in His image. It is clear that I cannot convince you of what I know to be true. But think about this, if you are right I will never know because I will be dead and part of the ground back to dust. If I am right and that means the Bible is accurate you will one day find out. Seems like a lose lose situation that you have put yourself in out of pride in my oppinoin. But I don't want you to think I don't believe in evolution. I do. As adaption. As one species changing through adaption over time but years later it is still the same species. Such a a wolf and coyote and dog. The evolutionary Theroy as how the world began I do not believe in at all as they are two different things.
 
Excellent post Dholsapple!

I have of a Bachelor of science degree. My major dealt with a lot of taxonomy and physiology of plants and animals. When it comes to evolution, yea I get it. No where in my university classes did it mention where our conscience comes from. If man created life, it would not have a purpose.
 
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