Is this hunting ??????????

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OK Kirby that is what I wanted!! I understand better where the human fits in to it. I will be the first to admit my hound hunting experience is with coon, and once (and my last time) with deer. I'm not completly sold but I buy into to the idea that it is more sporting than I had previously envision.

I still beleive the kill should be humane to keep either the coyote or the dogs from suffering but I not passing judgement on that.
 
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1 hound vs 1-coyote?? Really?. Tarry have you ever seen up close a lone dog fight a coyote?.... I've seen a boatload of good fast hard fighting coyote dogs. Fight a coyote face to face 1 on 1. Coyote kicks butt, no ifs ands or butts.

There are dogs that can kill a coyote 1 on 1. Generally they are referred to as a "Throat dog". Any other kind of coyote hound will pay dearly. These "lone coyote killer's" are a very high premium to buy. Also a rarity for sure. A houndsman, would pay top dollar if he/she wanted to buy "a lone coyote killer". Thus, the hound pack rule applys.

You watch most any hound/coyote catch. Unless that hound gets in a "VERY Quick throat hold & doesn't let go". That hound will get it's face slashed by that little buzz-zaw.
Now say, that coyote is 40 lbs or more. [I've seen a boatload of 40+ coyotes in my time]. That lone hound best be girded up. As he/she is in for a whupping.



I have a dog that kills coyotes 1 on 1 and he is right it is a hell of a fight!!! She is amazing to watch....you can tell that she is enjoying every second of it...she is even wagging her tail sometimes...she was bread to hunt and kill and that is what she does....and does it well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Man I love my dog haha

So to condem someone for letting there dog hunt is rediculus just because you dont hunt that way or have never tried it.
 
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2robinhood didn't just pop in the door with the topic at hand as his introductory post in anticipation of a warm and hearty hello. If I'm wrong, then he can prove it.

Post a positive topic that shows that you have experience and a heritage to back it up.

Don't expect an apology if I am wrong.



I have been a hunter since 15, I am now 38. I hunt small game, whitetail, turkey, and just in the fall of 2007 tried coyote hunting at night.
Here in New Jersey we can hunt in the day and at night time with a permit.
I am a newbie to predator hunting and was doing Yahoo searches and came across this site for advice.
I am registered to many sites and have many post. I am only new to the preadtor sites since I just started coyote hunting and am hooked. Went a bought a Foxpro scopion and red spotlight, etc. I have no yote kill as of yet, but hopefully soon.
Here I am on another site.
( http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2505685&mpage=1&key=&#2505685 )

Look at my post on this site and even Huntingnet.com and you will see that I have been asking advice on coyote hunting.

I just have always been for the quick kill. Not a out numbered ripping apart.
But like I said, to each his own.

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But like I said, to each his own.



Now thats the best thing I've read in this thread. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
I like it, the first video was the best! If I lived in open flat land, I would have a pack of greyhounds and do the same thing. And I would have been doing it for a long time before now. It's a very effective way to reduce the coyote population. Safer than using poison, ie "M44 coyote getters" (cyanide). It's a natural way to kill coyotes. Canine against canine. I'd really like to have been there, with Kirby and Vargy and my cameras. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
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I hunt for food, the challenge and enjoyment of it.



We are similar. I don't eat predators or varmints. I hunt for the kill, for the same reasons as you, challenge and enjoyment.
 
I started this thread.
I didn't think all of this would happen.
If it is fuel for the anti's. DELETE THIS THREAD.
I was just wondering how you guys felt, I now see.
 
2Robinhood, welcome to Predator Masters.

Looks like you know how to make an entrance. I think you'll find the hunters here are more than willing to help you with your education about predator hunting but I doubt you will find any , especially the hound guys, who will stand by and let you go unchallenged and uneducated when you make broad statements about their style of hunting.

Statements like a "Not a 5 minute, out numbered ripping apart." Backed up with a video that actually shows contact for less than 1 minute won't support tour POV.

At one time or other I've hunted nearly everything that can be hunted with hounds, I've also killed more than a few coyotes. If you hunt, regardless of the tools used, there will come a time when you will not get a clean quick kill.
That is the reality. I don't like it and I do everything I can to ensure it doesn't happen, but it still does from time to time.
Rifle hunting coyotes sometimes ends in bangflop, but sometimes even with a heart shot, the coyote will run for 100+yds. or do some acrobatics, that if they were put on video and broadcast, would get the same response as hound hunting in this case. Point is they will take some time to die, much lnger if they are wounded. I have had "good " hits on coyotes only to roll them and have them run off, and require more hits to kill them. Certainly not the result I expect or desire. Just reality. If you hunt at night, I believe it is even more challenging to get a bangflop.

Take the hound men out of the equation for a minute. That pack of hounds wouldn't sit around in the yard and sleep all day? They would hunt and kill what they catch. They would also do it as efficiently as they could.
Enter the human handler to let the hounds know what is acceptable[legal] to hunt and where.

Regardless that you have many years hunting experience, you still come from a position of little or no information about predator hunting and hounds in particular..
There are always those who have something negative to say about someone else's type of hunting. More often than not the comments come from someone who has never tried the very thing they are complaining about and instead come from a position of emotion instead of facts.

I didn't say everyone, I said most. I've tried many differnet techniques to hunt and some I'm really not excited about doing. Night hunting for one. Nothing wrong with it, I just don't enjoy it. But I sure won't help anyone take it away from us, in fact I will fight to keep it.

Opinions are good and discussions are good as long as they stick to the topic at hand, come from a base of facts or personal experience, and don't get into personal attacks and name calling.

I've looked closely at your pic with the deer, congrats BTW, and I can't see any bridge /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif So I'm gonna go out on a limb here, no bridge, = no troll. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

What is that growing in the field behind you? Kale? turnips?
 
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The crucial factor in sporting ethics is the one shot one quick kill mantra.




You hit the nail on the head! One shot, One (quick) kill. That "mantra" is laser etched into the minds of rifle hunters. Purist rifle hunters.

So what about bow hunters? There's nothing "quick" about that kill. Do you look down on that form of hunting? How 'bout we make a video showing a lung shot buck running thru the woods for 20 minutes, belching blood every foot of the way. Would that be more acceptable than a dog hunting video?
 
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I've looked closely at your pic with the deer, congrats BTW, and I can't see any bridge /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif So I'm gonna go out on a limb here, no bridge, = no troll. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

What is that growing in the field behind you? Kale? turnips?



Thank you, It was my first I wanted to put on the wall.
There is rape and clover planted.
 
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2robinhood,

I'm an ex-houndsman...please don't hate me, LOL!
Good luck with your 1st coyote. Kill'em twice, as they can often take a severe pounding /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
It seems neither side of this debate are leading. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I have made numerous statements about using greyhounds, both in this forum & the Hounds forum. Like so many in this thread, my opinions & experiences seem to fall on deaf ears...unless you hunt with hounds. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

So I'll just say this...
I am a 3rd generation coyote hunter. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
I grew up hunting coyotes with greyhounds. I started going along in '73.
My Grandad hunted this way from '40's to the late '60's.
My uncles started doing it in the '50's & the uncle who is still living, continues to hunt this way.
(and he HATES us people who use calls, because "we're not hunting coyotes the right way".) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Dad hunted this way from '50's to '79.

For years, I thought this was the ONLY way to hunt coyotes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

From '80-'95, Dad & I used a shotgun instead of dogs...other than that, everything else was the same. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
When my Dad gave it up in '95, I turned to calling. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Each way of hunting...& yes, it is hunting whether you like it or not...each has it's own merits/challenges/skill. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

While I truly love to call, I'll always miss the chase. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I'm outa here...peace! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Handling dogs is the sport. Of course it's hunting.

I hunted birds primarily for 20 years starting at age 9 or so. If I didn't have my own dog to train and work, I didn't go. It was that important. (And I went into the field all the time!) The dog is as important as anything, more important than most things. Working the dog was the best part of the hunt.

Working a dog or a pack of dogs is a true accomplishment, pleasure, and privelege, and holds huge satifaction for the master.

I've never hunted game with dogs, but if I could, I'd love to. My own dogs, that I trained, and I'm working. If it was their job to kill, so be it. That would be part of the experience. It's no different in nature, in fact nature is usually more brutal and raw that that 4 minutes of catch/kill. (I've seen a dozen or more kill sites this season alone. There was nothing "quick" or "humane" about the way those animals died.) I wouldn't be out there for a "fair" fight. I've be out there to accomplish the goal... dead coyote. Could it be done better? Sure. Should it? Maybe. Must it? No. There's nothing wrong with it.

I support those hunters... and their masters.
 
Probably looks very similar to when some coyotes gang up on a house pet, deer etc. Hunting with dogs is a good way to control the coyote populations. I know a bunch of guys who do it. The bad thing is that these people posted the video for all to see.
 
Redfrog... "That bunch of hounds wouldn't sit around in the yard and sleep all day. They would hunt and kill what they catch." Oh really, so there are no laws in Alberta about dogs running loose in wildlife habitat. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif Come on that is the weakest argument that I have ever heard. It's kind of like saying pitbulls were bread to fight soooo they should be allowed to /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

And yes, the mantra of one shot one (quick) kill is what everyone should strive for. It's not purist or elitest ... It's hunter ethics 101. Notice I used the word strive ... the important point being one knows at the outset that if you are going to let your dogs kill a yoke, it is going to be long and messy whereas with a rifle, handgun, bow, crossbow ... etc the goal is quick and humane.

P.S. if your deer runs for twenty minutes after being shot with a bow, you need alot more pratice before you should be hunting with one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
Doesn't bother me. Coyotes are varmints. Just because we like to shoot doesn't mean they have to be taken with a firearm. Don't be so elitist. Might not be "hunting" or sport to you, but maybe it is to the guys who are doing it. Or maybe the whole point is just to get rid of coyotes and that's their method. Most farm dogs would do the same thing to any coyote. My friend's Akita used to kill coyotes when they'd come around after chickens. Pretty or not, those dogs are doing the same thing coyotes do to deer or sheep or anything else they kill.
 
Ok, here goes.

When I first saw the videos, it upset me. Did not turn my stomach or anything, but it DID upset me. As I got further into this thread though, I noticed that it began to not bother me as much. By the end of the post, it made me think about possably wanting to try this myself (with someone elses dogs of course), as it might be fun, and I am always trying to broaden my horizons. Just to be sure, after I read the last post, I went back and watched all the videos again. I thought that just the fact that the images in my head were fading mi9ght be the reason it didn't bother me anymore. Answer: afer I was a bit educated on the matter (not much but a little) and knew what I was watching, I realized that it is not as barbaric as first seen. You see, ignorance will bias (spelled correctly) more opnions than anything. Antis seeing cut little prarie dogs doing half gainers with entrails hanging out see a gorey bloodlust, not someone sharpening their shooting skills, challanging themselves, and helping out ranchers. THEY DO NOT KNOW, AND HAVE NO DESIRE TO UNDERSTAND! The people that posted in this thread flaming folks or calling names dont understand, and have no desire to do so. Some even admit that they will make no effort into the subject other than to spit hatred at the other side. I'm not saying you should be all for everything, just that most (i use the term generally speaking) people make teir minds up on stuff like this before they are ever presented the facts. I am a used car salesman from Texas, does that make me a liar? Most people will say "yes". Get to know me, my father (the local minister) my mother (the local teacher) and my wife and kids, and you will realize that I am quite the opposite. Those guys hunt coyotes with dogs, does that make them evil, or animal torturers, or inhumane? No, it doesnt, it jsut makes them diffrent than ME! or am I diffrent from them? Anyway, my rant is over.

Oh yeah and one last thing, I happen to LOVE granola! Should I flame everyone that says that that makes me a tree-hugger?
 
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The post by furmaster on page 2 of this thread pretty much says it all!! He is dead on correct!

Putting videos like this on youtube for the WORLD to see is STUPID. STUPID. STUPID. That video right there is just what the anti whackos love to get their hands on. That video is way better than the prairie dog videos for their agenda.

Some common sense and discretion in this day and age of computers, internet, the W.W.W. and youtube would go a long way. If the hound guys, the prairie dog hunters, the trappers, etc. want to keep enjoying our sport, we better start using a little better judgement on things.

It's surely not going to get any easier for us to keep enjoying what we do guys. We don't want to make it harder.



Gentleman - the above is the BEST REPLY to this thread - bar none!
 
Tweeter, congratulations on having an open mind. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif That's getting to be a rare commodity these days. I have never run coyotes. But a thread, very similar to this one, came up about 3-4 years ago. By the time it got to be about 6 pages long, I had to go find out for myself. I contacted one of the houndsmen on this board, and asked if I could could come see what it was all about. He said sure. He was 3 States east of me, but I drove over so I could make up my own mind.


Vargy took me out and showed me what runnin' hounds was all about. Let me tell you, it is nothing at all like you hear from non-houndsmen and people who have never participated. It was exciting as hell. Probably moreso for the dogs than for the humans!

Do yourself a favor. Go. Go on a couple of coyote runs. Be sure to do a night run. That is waayyyy spooky fun! Vargy has a (non-kill) fun run and picnic called the Var-B-Q every year. It's open to the public. Try to attend if you can. But be careful. You just might end up ordering some of his trail hounds. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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