Feds killing to many coyotes

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drhart
If I could make 15 stands call in two and kill one I would be happy as heck.
Where I live its about 80 sets to one coyote call and only a kill if he comes out of the brush.
 
On the Ranches and BLM land I hunt mother nature has more to do with the coyote population than hunting pressure does. We are in the middle of at least four years of drought, no rabbits, quail or any small game around at all. Last year I saw no coyotes pups at all. This year there was very few new coyote pups. If we don't get some rain between now and March I may not do any coyote calling with a firearm next winter around here.

The ADC government guys fly some of the ranches around here but they are asked to do it and have to have permission to do it. They do not fly government ground, only private property.
 
Originally Posted By: GrizleyHunterdrhart
If I could make 15 stands call in two and kill one I would be happy as heck.
Where I live its about 80 sets to one coyote call and only a kill if he comes out of the brush.

I understand that I have been spoiled and I liked it when I was spoiled. I don't know if I could keep it up it I only called something in once out of 80 stands. I might take up golf or something.
 
Quote:This is off topic but do you know a Joan Robbinson from your town???Yes, I know her.

Quote:If you are a rancher, there is no such thing as killing too many coyotes. True enough, but more and more ranchers are getting very particular about who does the killing. The days of assuming it's OK to just go kill coyotes on private property are gone around here. I find it very disturbing that coyote hunters are building such a bad reputation for themselves in central Wyoming.
 
Saw tons of mule deer and antelope. Coyote hunting was poor. Shooting coyotes from an aircraft using our tax dollors should be outlawed.
 
So....

This is about hunting success, right?

We should let the ranchers lose their family ranch, because we change things up, and make the gov't stop trying to do ADC work, so that a few hunters can have a couple of successful days in the field, right?

There's also something else that works. Go to an area that doesn't have sheep. Simple.

I do it all the time. The sheep ranchers here would LOVE for me to come out and call all weekend to see what I can kill on their ranch. But, it's not worth me time. I'll not call all weekend on a ranch to get a shot at one coyote.
So, I plan my hunting time around where the coyaotes ARE.

Smsnyder, you being from PA and all, you do realize that it's a totally diferent world out west. The west is basically devoted to agriculture...The same agriculture that feeds the world.

I'm not saying anything against you I'm just giving you a different perspective on things. Perhaps I shouldn't. I don't know. It's like speaking Spanish to someone that doesn't speak Spanish.

Here's a link that perhaps you could visit & join up with:

http://www.apnm.org/campaigns/coyotes/NM_assult.php

The ranchers are a BIG part of why we have places to hunt.
Without the ranches, how many members here would have a place to hunt? Not many....
If we put them out of business so that few guys can take a hunting vacation from back east and kill a few coyotes for their personal entertainment and enjoyment......Well, see what I mean? I doesn't quite add up, does it?

My first advice is that if you are planning a hunting trip...No matter if it's in your same county, do the small amount of investigation to determine if there are actually coyotes in the area you plan to hunt.

I have a hard time understanding the train of thought behind this thread. I hope that the ranchers reading it are minimal....Because if they percieve members of PM coming out for something that will put them out of business for good, and cause them to lose the ranch that they have a hard enough time keeping in the family, then I strongly suspect that the whole community of coyote hunters WILL have way more locked gates and access problems.

That's not what we are about here.
We are out to actually help the ranchers & be educated about what kind of damage predators can do to livestock & wildlife resources.
We are not about trying to change the laws to force our allies, the ranchers, out of business because we had a bad weekend hunting, and feel sorry for ourselves because we came into a region of the U.S. that we don't live in , nor understand, and had a hard time calling a coyote.

The predator hunters and ranchers down here, and throughout the West stand united to save the hunting priveldges that groups like the link I posted above would see stripped.

Ranchers and hunters have always enjoyed that relationship.
I know I won't stand by and let someone that DOESN'T have a vested interest in the area slam the very people that give us our places to hunt.

Just my .02's worth.

Barry
 
Originally Posted By: smsnyderShooting coyotes from an aircraft using our tax dollors should be outlawed.

Why? Because you went out west and didn't see any coyotes? Government hunters and trappers provide a valuable service to the land owners in this country. Where do you think the tax money comes from to fund the schools in those rural areas? From the land owners. If they can't make a profit, then why should they continue to operate?

I feel your frustration, but to make a blanket statement that that option should be outlawed sounds a little callous to me. Airplane and helicopter shooting was implemented for a reason, and just because some folks want to have a little fun and do some calling, is no reason to completely shut down an effective method of predator control. The ranchers and sheep folks have been here long before the hunters, and will continue to be. As hunters, we should do everything we can to keep them in business. If they sell out, (around here) many times the land gets split up or is paved with subdivisions and is unusable for hunting. Out west is obviously different. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes. This is just my opinion. Your mileage may vary. My family ranches here, so obviously I have a biased opinion.

Edit - I had a customer in my office for the last hour and Barry beat me to the punch.
 
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Coyote control has been going on since forever. I grew up in the midwest but now live on the west coast. As a young man I read about how they would eliminate coyotes with the 1080 bombs, poison shot into a coyotes mouth when he took a bait, I wondered what it would be like to have coyotes around as we had none anywhere close to where I lived. Later I went to college in Newyork and started hearing stories of coyotes showing in upstate NY. We figured they had to come from Canada. Wrong they were moving east even with the control methods. My point is when everything else is gone there will still be rats, cockroaches, carp and coyotes. When the rabbits come back the coyotes will follow. Predator control is just a quick bandade on a few ranches or important fawning grounds on public land. As hunters we need to stay united and predator control is an important part of big game managementin the west. I get frustrated when I show up right after they have flown an area but I realize its my responsibility to check first and not blame not blame the game managers or ranchers for trying to control local populations. Trust me enough survive to repopulate the area if there is a good food source, ie rabbits, they don't call him wiley coyote for nothing.
 
I have been hunting coyotes for over 30 years. In my opinion if you are having a decline in your area it has much more to do with food sources than hunting or even government flying. Back in the late 70's and early 80's there were probably 100 people trapping in my area of the state. Coyotes were bringing an average of $60.00. Back then everyone trapped but hardly anyone I knew called. I did both. In 1981 I was laid of from my job and spent the whole winter out running traps and calling. I made a very good living that year. There were coyotes everywhere. Nobody traps anymore around here. With changes in trapping laws, fuel prices etc, there is just no money in it. So the government trappers do 90% of the trapping. Our coyote population is off somewhat with the rabies outbreak, drought no grasshoppers this fall and very few rabbits. That said everywhere I go calling I see where others have pulled off and made a stand. This leads to much smarter coyotes. This is what is happening. Our sport is developing and we are creating a much smarter critter. It is just like with any other hunting 10% of the hunters will get 90% of the game. It is just the way it is. Those that adapt to our changing sport will succeed. Others will get frustrated and quit. The days of calling 20 coyotes a day on public land are gone around here, but when you do outsmart one you have accomplished something. I used to accomplish calling a coyote every 3 stands, now it is move like every 7 stands. I get a lot more dogs hanging up out at 300 yards and less hard chargers. My equipment has changed to get those that hang up. I call a lot more in areas that others won't. As a hunter I try to adapt as the animals I hunt change. For those that have been doing this awhile you might have seen the same things. For those that are new to this sport in some ways you have it made. The learning curve has been greatly reduced for you. But on the other hand you are hunting a lot smarter animal than we started out with years ago.

drscott
 
I hear you. We had one of our favorite areas flew last year and they managed 90 coyotes out of that area.
cry.gif
The year before we had 125 or something shot out of another area we hunted. Plus you add on the range that burned a couple years ago and the Parvo they say our dogs around here got. Things have gotten a little scarce. Just means I have to explore new country which is still fun.
 
There is this one desert area I hunt in Southern California. I have not seen any rabbits, mice, or lizards there in 2 years. I went calling yesterday. Nothing.

Hopefully, this will frustrate all the new coyote hunters. Maybe they will quit.
 
Nevermind...

I deleted this post in the spirit of friendship. ADC programs are always controversial and I think we all need to be more cognizant of all parties effected.
 
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Quote:But on the other hand you are hunting a lot smarter animal than we started out with years ago. That is one of the reasons we are losing so much access. I guess I have drifted the thread enough.
 
there is a tax on livestock when it is sold.
that pays for our county trappers or bounty depending on the county.
yes ranchers pay their taxes just like you and i then they pay more taxes on top of that for predator control.
i don't fault the ranches at all.
i've been calling a long time i can tell you we are heading into the low end of the coyotes cycle it has nothing to do with adc.
yes adc is doing its job but i know arial gunning doesn't get them all.
everyone and their brother has jumped onto the electronic call craze and with the variaty of excellent sounds everyone is killing coyotes. that still isn't enough to make up for the loss of trappers making a living at it like early 80's and before that.
what we are doing is educating coyotes to calls they have good long term memory just like a border collie.
you train a border collie something he will do it the rest of his life
coyotes are just as smart.
 
good post cmiddleton, i figure i'm going to step on some toes but here goes. to start off with the last state i was in didnt even have a plane when i left, and i know almost to the dollar what it took to keep me in my counties, not my pay check but the over all cost and it figured out at a few dollars under 200 a coyote, thats not counting around 2500 acres of prairie dogs that i posioned a year, the beaver i trapped that were trying to flood the county roads that you drive on, the birds that i got rid of that were shitting on your cars downtown, the coons that were tearing up the little old ladies bird feeders, the list goes on. i dont know any trapper that just goes where he wants when he wants, you have to sign people up if they want you there.
sounds great to get rid of the adc guys, more coyotes, look at it this way, you say you will take care of the coyote problems for mr. rancher, well he calls you monday night and says hes got a pair killing sheep the last 2 nights, well you got a job cant get there till sat morning, sorry wont fly with mr. rancher thats his pay check thats being turned into coyote turds. but wait you are off tuesdays so you can be there, but some yokel with a 17 and a new e call was out there last weekend and got them called up but just hit one in the leg so your out of luck on the calling now, drag out the traps, snares, anything you can because i promise mr. sheep rancher is calling you every night wanting to know if you have killed them yet. but you got a full time job so you cant find the time to run traps and snares and spend a day tracking and figureing out that the pair is coming from 3 miles off and tracking down the land owner you need to get on and hope that they will let you get on their land.oh and by the way there are 5 other ranchers calling at the same time.
i'm not bashing coyote hunters at all here, but some of you need to look at the whole pic here, its not just hobby calling, and the flying farther away from the livestock is preventitive maintance, cause they will be filling that void. and yes it does help the wildlife, three years flying some speed goat country brought up the survivial rate 70% in a area that i know of and thats money in the states pocket when you figure they can up the # of tags that they can sell. and like cmiddleton said some states have a pred tax on every head of livestock sold through a salebarn.
not trying to piss anybody off just want to show of of the other side, next time its raining or the wind is blowing 40 and snowing and you decide to stay home, remember theres a rancher some where lossing stock, ryan
 
Guys,

A couple things to think about. First there are still plenty of coyotes. I hunted on saturday within 50miles of Rock Springs and saw 12 in a day. Its down from past years but the govt guys have been killing about the same amount of coyotes for 25 years (on average). The biggest reason the coyote population is down was because the rabbits crashed two years ago. Rabbits are slowly on a rebound now.
Second cost per coyote in Sweetwater county is about 120 per coyote. 50% of this money comes from the federal goverment.
Third, Study after study (recent studies) have shown a direct correlation between low fawn crops in mule deer, and antelope and high density of coyotes. Most of us who hunt coyotes also hunt big game. With the condition of mule deer herds we can't afford any lower fawn crops than what we currently have. Although coyotes aren't the only predator that affect this they are the only one we can control (truth be told eagles are probably the biggest predator on our fawn crops)
Instead of worrying about the govt guys we should be worrying about the 10% of the hunters who are leaving the gates open, and screwing things up for the rest of us, there lyes the problem.
 
wyoyotebuster1 good post i have heard that gate story quite afew times and city people turning windwills off is another one that i hear alot, thing like that dont help the hunters at all
 
OK, a couple things. I am not opposed to ADC work or aerial gunning. It is the most effective way to control coyotes and necessary. It has been going on as long as I can remember and I had an uncle who was a government trapper in Montana for a while. I am just stating a fact that the EXTRA money that the state put into the predator boards a couple years ago didn't seem to be very cost effective when it was costing almost $1000 per coyote.
I am just stating a fact that coyotes are getting scarcer and the ones that are out there are harder to call. I know that they are getting a lot smarter because of so many people out calling. I get a lot more long distance lookers than in the past. The calling contests here get every high school kid with a call and a rifle into the field for a day or two. Actually, the same team has won it the last four years and they hunt a large private tract that no one else has access to. Not may coyotes get killed by most of the teams but lots of them get educated.
Rabbit populations are spotty in our area but in some areas, they are still overpopulated. I've seen a couple coyotes with mange this past year. I'm sure there are lots of factors in the coyote numbers being lower and the calling getting tougher. With all that being said, saying that taking 1100 coyotes out of one county in one year doesn't have an affect on the population is pretty naive. 1100 and the pups they would have had would make a big difference.
 
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