AR's and lost coyotes
- Thread starter GhostsoftheGrass
- Start date
DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: B.C.T.
That's the graphic I designed and posted a few years ago. I maintain it's an excellent aiming point for bang-flop DRT performance. NOT further back like so many hunters do.
Pssst: I use a 223 40gr Vmax with great success. I also enjoy neck shots.
If you can't consistently hit a 3x5 card from various field positions, you will have spinners, runners, and tales of woe. Move closer, improve your marksmanship skills, and/or use more accurate gear. If you can't hit a piece of paper with consistency then you're not going to kill coyotes efficiently either.
Pssst: I use a 223 40gr Vmax with great success. I also enjoy neck shots.
If you can't consistently hit a 3x5 card from various field positions, you will have spinners, runners, and tales of woe. Move closer, improve your marksmanship skills, and/or use more accurate gear. If you can't hit a piece of paper with consistency then you're not going to kill coyotes efficiently either.
I made a post last night and after a couple of stands today I wanted to add one more post. Shot another coyote 150 yards rock river AR 18" barrel 60 grain v-max frontal chest shot. The bullet made its exit in one side of the stomach area. If it would have been a deer I almost would not have to clean it. It was about a softball size hole. It for sure wasn't a runner or a spinner. I have a lot of confidence in my AR's.
azcatter
New member
i use the 55 gram vmax if you are lossing coyotes its becouse ou are missing if you conect they will be right there i had one this morning drop in its tracks at 400 yards it was shot threw the hips with a 55 gran vmax hornady wind drift even deer go down at long range with the 55 gran vmax go to the range and shot and work on your hand loades or throw them away and go get a box of hornady and not leave wounded animals out there
crowslayer17
New member
Originally Posted By: GhostsoftheGrassUnder 150 yds. Last night was first one I lost on a standing shot. It was frontal so on those there isn't much distance from a center shot to shoulder shot. But my body has lost all his on broadside shots. So I must be a better shot than him. All mine lost coyotes were from running shots so shot placement on those are tough to say.
I think you answered your own question here. Poor hits on running coyotes. I've seen it often over the years, more so than because of bullet design. It is easy to get excited and knowing you have several follow-up shots rush and make a poor hit especially on a running coyote. Make sure you have a good trigger in your AR and don't come unglued when the shooting starts. Also keep an eye on them if they drop to make sure they are dead. Naturally the 22-250 has more energy so it'll be a little more forgiving and I bet you are taking more time with the bolt action.
Seems like your buddy has a bullet issue if he's getting runners on good hits, unless he is hitting them too far back.
I think you answered your own question here. Poor hits on running coyotes. I've seen it often over the years, more so than because of bullet design. It is easy to get excited and knowing you have several follow-up shots rush and make a poor hit especially on a running coyote. Make sure you have a good trigger in your AR and don't come unglued when the shooting starts. Also keep an eye on them if they drop to make sure they are dead. Naturally the 22-250 has more energy so it'll be a little more forgiving and I bet you are taking more time with the bolt action.
Seems like your buddy has a bullet issue if he's getting runners on good hits, unless he is hitting them too far back.
Ihateyotes
New member
The best piece of advise I have read on this site and have applied which has helped me is "shoot until they know they are dead not until you think they are dead". With 55gr federal vmax I had several standing broadside hits through a 6x genIII night scope off a bipod between 40-60yds that went down and I thought they were dead and after a couple of minutes they got back up and lit the burners. My fault was I was aiming at the shoulder with a varmit bullet and should have went a hair farther back and a little lower. Once that statement stuck I don't take the scope off them or my finger off the trigger until they have realized they are dead. I don't know about the hornady vmax I have several boxes but the 64gr power point has worked for me so far.
The question on your mind is if they ran off how do you know where you hit them the answer is I saw them again later running with their (2 different coyotes) mate and were limping on that right front shoulder. and to update they no longer have a limp
That and they have an amazing will to live or to at least get away.
The question on your mind is if they ran off how do you know where you hit them the answer is I saw them again later running with their (2 different coyotes) mate and were limping on that right front shoulder. and to update they no longer have a limp
That and they have an amazing will to live or to at least get away.
justin10mm
New member
The problem I see is some insist on using bullets designed for 4 pound rodents on 40 pound coyotes and then wonder why they get spinners and runners.
IMO the only thing that makes the .223 suitable for coyotes and deer are the heavier, stoutly constructed hunting bullets that are available. The 55gr NBT and various 55gr soft points at a minimum but preferably something 60 to 65 grains.
IMO the only thing that makes the .223 suitable for coyotes and deer are the heavier, stoutly constructed hunting bullets that are available. The 55gr NBT and various 55gr soft points at a minimum but preferably something 60 to 65 grains.
Originally Posted By: azcatteri use the 55 gram vmax if you are lossing coyotes its becouse ou are missing if you conect they will be right there i had one this morning drop in its tracks at 400 yards it was shot threw the hips with a 55 gran vmax hornady wind drift even deer go down at long range with the 55 gran vmax go to the range and shot and work on your hand loades or throw them away and go get a box of hornady and not leave wounded animals out there
What?!! "DRT at 400 yards it was shot through the hips" I could never be so lucky!
What?!! "DRT at 400 yards it was shot through the hips" I could never be so lucky!
I don't have the kill numbers that most on this thread do, but the .223 has worked super for coyotes ime. The AR has nothing to do with the runoffs; it is location location location of bullet impact. No doubt the 22-250 is a better coyote round on less than perfect hits because it has more horsepower and does more local/regional damage. I have used Speer 50g TNTs for most of my coyote kills and they work great; in fact they seem to kill faster than the 55g TNTs ime. I have been more surprised at recoveries from my less than stellar shooting than I have from runoffs. Coyotes are very tough and if they can gather enough energy/composure to get their feet/legs under them they can run off and die out of sight. I have killed 2 3-legged ones and one that was bob tailed with a big hairless scar across its rump that were otherwise in perfect body condition. I've only had one runoff after a confirmed hit(knockdown, spin, etc.) and that was with a 6.5 DTI at about 200 yards. It gathered its feet and senses and ran off sideways with its tail waving in a circular fashion down into a deep, steep, rough ravine. I didn't recover him for hero shots but I'm confident his poult/fawn killing career ended that day. It's pretty much all about shot placement.
Just a short story to add. A few years ago my partner and I spent the day calling with one of our local professional government hunters/trapper. when we were on our way out that day he asked what we were shooting. My partner had a bolt action 223 and I had my AR 223. He made a comment that he didn't like the 223 because of to many lost coyotes. He was shooting a 6MM AI with 65 grain. V-max.
We killed 9 dogs that day with 7 band flops with the 223 and two runners both with the 6mm. Both of his shots were on broadside coyotes and he hit the shoulder on both and splashed. We did recover them but they got up and went a ways. Both of us were shooting 55 grain soft points. I have killed coyotes with just about any caliber you want to shoot and have had success with all of them and have had runners with all of them. I personally have gotten away from the v-max bullet due to splashes. I have gone to the Nosler B-tip Just because it is a little tougher bullet. Shoot with what you want and find a bullet you are confident in and go hunting. Anyone who has not had lost or run offs hasn't shot many coyotes. I tell people all the time that coyotes will make you a bad shot( tongue in cheek of course) The target on a coyote is not that large and usually moving. If you can hit it 100% of the time you are a much better man than me. Sure faster and bigger will give you a little margin of error but won't always make up for a marginal hit.
drscott
We killed 9 dogs that day with 7 band flops with the 223 and two runners both with the 6mm. Both of his shots were on broadside coyotes and he hit the shoulder on both and splashed. We did recover them but they got up and went a ways. Both of us were shooting 55 grain soft points. I have killed coyotes with just about any caliber you want to shoot and have had success with all of them and have had runners with all of them. I personally have gotten away from the v-max bullet due to splashes. I have gone to the Nosler B-tip Just because it is a little tougher bullet. Shoot with what you want and find a bullet you are confident in and go hunting. Anyone who has not had lost or run offs hasn't shot many coyotes. I tell people all the time that coyotes will make you a bad shot( tongue in cheek of course) The target on a coyote is not that large and usually moving. If you can hit it 100% of the time you are a much better man than me. Sure faster and bigger will give you a little margin of error but won't always make up for a marginal hit.
drscott
Interesting comments on the VMax. My litied experience with the 53 gr VMax in 223 on yotes has been impressive, but I've lately been doing load developement for an AR using 55g BT's and it looks like they're more readily accurate in this particular rifle, meaning that's what I'll likely use for hunting in the future. It's a 1-7 twist barrel, so getting lighter bullets to shoot well is a bit of a problem & generally they have to be launched at a bit lower velocity to keep the groups tight.
yotekiller
New member
I have never lost a coyote due to an ar or 223. I can't remember one that took another step honestly.
I should add that I primarily use ars in thicker areas where my shots are normally less than 150yrds. Longer ranges and open country usually sees a bolt action 204 or 22-250, I have had runners in both of those calibers. Most of the time is was from shot placement for whatever reason. Heck, I can screw up a group from a bench.
I should add that I primarily use ars in thicker areas where my shots are normally less than 150yrds. Longer ranges and open country usually sees a bolt action 204 or 22-250, I have had runners in both of those calibers. Most of the time is was from shot placement for whatever reason. Heck, I can screw up a group from a bench.
Stu, I think the V-max are a good bullet but in my experience they are more prone to failure at high velocities. I shot them for awhile in my 6mm also and had a few splashes. I also had some come apart in the grass in front of my intended target. This was shooting 65 grains with a hot load. I had better luck when I slowed them down a bit. I know a lot of people swear by them so I know they are effective. So far I have just had better luck with the Nosler BT. In places I call you always have the possibility of calling a bear or a lion so I opted for a little tougher bullet. Most of the guys I know that hunt around here shoot V-maxes and kill lots of critters with them. I just am using my personal experiences and opinions for what they are worth. I am currently shooting 70 grain Noslers in all my 6mm rifles and have been happy with the performance at a variety of velocities. this is in My 6mm rem., a 243 and a 6x45. In the 6x45 this has proven to be a extremely fur friendly combo and at the lower velocity has been the hammer of Thor. Not so fur friendly in the 6mm rem.
drscott
drscott
the impactzone
New member
get a dog and you won't loose any, never had to track a coyote hit in side the ribs or shoulder with a 55-60 Vmax out of a 223 that went over 150 yards, have hit in the legs then the dog caught them at 500 yards, have not lost one after turning the dog loose. If I want DRT and not recovering fur it a 243 & 58gr vmax at 3800
orkan
Active member
Originally Posted By: possumalOriginally Posted By: GhostsoftheGrassReloads. We've used 53 Vmax, 50 Zmax, and 55 gr Noslers. I'm in process of trying out 52 gr Sierra MatchKings.
I hope you meant Sierra 52 grain Blitz Kings. The MatchKing is for paper punching. To date, the 52SMK is the most impressive coyote killer I've found... and I've tried a LOT of different bullets. Currently shooting them in my 22-243 and it will take quite an amazing pill to get me to switch.
I hope you meant Sierra 52 grain Blitz Kings. The MatchKing is for paper punching. To date, the 52SMK is the most impressive coyote killer I've found... and I've tried a LOT of different bullets. Currently shooting them in my 22-243 and it will take quite an amazing pill to get me to switch.
If you hit a coyote behind the diaphragm or low in the brisket, It may knock him down, then he may get up and haul freight once he has over come some of the shock.
In the mid 80's, we knocked down 6 coyotes that got back up and hobbled off on a three day hunt down in Mexico. We were shooting a Ruger 77 in 22/250 with the speer 52g hp with a load of 35g of IMR 4064. That particular lot# of bullets was made with thin jackets and they were exploding on shoulder blades and on Ribs. Speer has since thickened up the jacket a tad.
I will never get over just how hard a coyote can be to kill, as I have seen some very incredible things happen when coyotes have been hit hard.
One issue that I had when hunting with an AR was that the factory trigger was so hard to pull, that the shooter would often yank the shot which lead to bad hits. This happened frequently, so I installed a $200 trigger.
I am a firm believer that 55's in the 3250 fps area will dump coyotes hard, all sierra lead tips, and the Nosler 55g ballistic tips. Sierra 55g BTHP is a super accurate bullet and is tougher than the lead tip bullets, and we did not have trouble with that bullet either.
Quartering shots on coyotes either coming or going can be difficult, and running shots are a hail mary to a lot of guys that have trouble aiming off the body leading a coyote on the run.
Good luck
In the mid 80's, we knocked down 6 coyotes that got back up and hobbled off on a three day hunt down in Mexico. We were shooting a Ruger 77 in 22/250 with the speer 52g hp with a load of 35g of IMR 4064. That particular lot# of bullets was made with thin jackets and they were exploding on shoulder blades and on Ribs. Speer has since thickened up the jacket a tad.
I will never get over just how hard a coyote can be to kill, as I have seen some very incredible things happen when coyotes have been hit hard.
One issue that I had when hunting with an AR was that the factory trigger was so hard to pull, that the shooter would often yank the shot which lead to bad hits. This happened frequently, so I installed a $200 trigger.
I am a firm believer that 55's in the 3250 fps area will dump coyotes hard, all sierra lead tips, and the Nosler 55g ballistic tips. Sierra 55g BTHP is a super accurate bullet and is tougher than the lead tip bullets, and we did not have trouble with that bullet either.
Quartering shots on coyotes either coming or going can be difficult, and running shots are a hail mary to a lot of guys that have trouble aiming off the body leading a coyote on the run.
Good luck