AR's and lost coyotes

I went through the same ordeal. Started off with a 22-250, and then went to the smaller .224's the only Yote I lost was with a 222 and 52gr smk's. I soon quit using the smk's in the deuce. I had great luck with them in the 22-250 though. I had a couple runners using the AR-15 223's. Always recovered them but still 100 yards is to far to track down a small critter with a minimal blood trail.
I've since moved to the .17 Remington and haven't looked back. It shoots a bit flatter then a 22-250, it's pretty dern accurate with some load devolpment, and I haven't had any runners........ Yet
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. Shot placement is still critical like the smaller .224's.
Rifles can be had in bolt or AR. You could simply buy a new upper for your existing AR if that platform suits you. Honestly I didn't care using my AR for calling. CZ and cooper build bolt actions in .17 Remington.
Another route you could go would be a custom bolt gun. If you go that route if definitely give the big .17 wildcats a look.
.17-204, 17TAC, .17predator, .17ppc, and .17BR just to name a few.
The .17's might not be your cup of tea, but they worked for me, and I had similar experiences that your having.
 
I hate to side with the original poster, but just this week I dropped 3 coyotes with my AR in 204 Ruger and lost the only dog I shot with my 5.56 AR loaded real hot with 65gr Sierras. The 204 AR with 45gr SP's is clearly the better medicine from my experience. Man that is one good bullet at moderate velocities. It's also my choice for my TX deer depredation work. The thing with 22-250 or swift is that they allow for a larger margin of error.
 
i have it summarized.

if you do not want to place your shots properly, or maybe if you can't, shoot a bigger caliber!

i find it odd that so many people complain about a 223 not being able to put down a coyote, but plenty will proclaim the 223 suitable for deer!

i have used many different bullets for coyotes, 55gr winchester, 55gr hornady spire points, 60gr sierra, and 55gr v-max, and probably some others. the 55gr v-max has by far been the most reliable for quick kills. i do not recall ever having lost a coyote using the v-max in the 223. i have never had splash with it, and on most coyotes it does not exit, i have also killed fox with it and had exit holes less than an inch. maybe at higher velocities it does not work as well, but i also use them in my 22-250 and have had great results with that as well. BUT, if extra velocity is making the bullets perform poorly, drop the velocity. i run a 55gr v-max in 223 using 748 out of a 24" barrel and it chronographs at 3050fps. i am puzzled by people claiming another 2 to 3 hundred fps with a barrel 4 to 8 inches shorter. my guess is that most of those claims are b.s. and have never been chronographed. but if they have been, why not drop some velocity and see what happens with bullet performance?
 
I love a 223 for yotes and have used it a considerable amount, and know many others who use this caliber on yotes as well. I have used 55 grain hornady softpoints and my friends use HPBT and vmaxe's with minimal fur damage but drt put down capability. It is a very capable coyote rifle in my eyes.
 
ah heck, get a .17 hmr and don't look back. Many have reported excellent performance from it, so it must be better suited for coyotes than the lowly .223.
There, someone had to say it.
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my load is a 55gr varmageddon pushed by 24.5 gr of benchmark out of my rra 20'' varminter. chrono has them pushing over 3200 and have yet to have an animal it hasn't dropped. I have a Ton of experience shooting wild dogs with 5.56, all with full metal jackets. never lost one and I doubt anyone could say that is a great bullet for the job but its what we had. some of these dogs were 20lbs some were closer to 60. I doubt any coyote hit where it should be will not expire within 30 yds using any decent hunting or varmint bullet
 
when I started coyote hunting I used a 22-250 loaded with 50 grain vmax, I like to run my guns full throttle so I think from my 22" barrel I was running these 3850ish maybe more. a stiff charge of RL 15 basically. I found this bullet to be mostly very poor on coyotes. occasionally if you hit just right it would be great. other times I got splashes or coyotes nearly cut in half. So I tried using match bullets like the berger match 50 grain. this worked just a little better but often did the same thing surface splashing as well although less often. Then I switched to a 52 grain JLK which as a very tight meplat. I still saw about the same thing as when I used the bergers. just erratic performance. sometimes they worked great, others not so great. The best bullet like DAA mentions and because of his suggestion I started using the sierra 1365. its THE coyote bullet, probably about the most efficient coyote killer you can find. I think it works better than any other caliber as well. it puts the dogs down and normally leaves a manageable exit hole. Although if you hit one wrong occasionally they can open one up. I had a couple foxes that it was really hard on.

The last few years I have been running a 243 AI with 105 hybrids. While I haven't walked out to check my longer range kills, but beyond 5=600 yards I seem to get coyotes that do quite a bit of spinning. I see them die but alot of times not right there. That tells me I could be having a bullet that isn't opening up that great.

Last week I shot 8 coyotes with a 223 20" ar 15. I used 53 grain vmax and 50 grain nolser's. the 53 grain loading was probably in the upper 3200 fps range and the 50 grain load was probably about 3000 fps. I was pretty darn happy with bullet performance all the way around. I didn't get any statue dead coyotes, mostly dropped in their tracks and with some convulsing on the ground but no steps afterward. Its been years since I have shot a coyote with a 223. I would NEVER shoot these bullets at coyotes driven at 22-250 speeds. I do think velocity is everything. I also think match bullets and varmint style bullets are constructed mostly the same. about as thin of a jacket as you can get away with. If your using a match style bullet your depending on the tightness of the meplate to control expansion. IMO this isn't an easy thing to manage at high speeds. The distance of the shot is also a big factor too. DAA has done some experiments with heavy jackets and basically match style bullets. I don't know if even he has found a happy medium yet with that. bullet performance just depends on how fast and how far. the other thing is many guys don't pay much attention to what happened to their coyote kill and why. I think this is why you see reports all over the map on bullet performance.

on edit: keep this in mind there is a HUGE disparity in speed between a full house 22-250 load and an average load from a 16-18" ar 15. in many cases its going to be around 1000 fps. I think this is often forgotten. its not uncommon for factory 223 loads from a 16" barrel to be in the 2800 fps range. thats why plastic tipped varmint bullets work for some guys not for others.
 
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What???? I shoot the same .223 load out of my AR and bolt gun. With the 55gr Vmax I haven't lost a coyote yet and I've shot a lot of them. As long as its an accurate gun once the bullet leaves the barrel a coyote doesn't know what its being shot with. I agree that most coyotes are lost with poor shot placement. I treat mine like every other animal wait for the best shot and bang flop.
 
When I started hunting coyotes, I used a H&R .223 single shot. I switched to a howa .243 bolt gun because I was tired of no follow up shot at doubles or my misses. Then I became tired of trying to locate the coyote after racking another round with the .243. So I bought a AR .223. I would never consider going back.
I think they have their issues. Bad factory triggers, slower velocity with a shorter barrel. But for me the positives far outweigh the negatives.
Shot placement is the issue I believe you are having. My 2 cents.
 
With an AR 15 you don't need to worry about accuracy as much, you just keep pulling the trigger. That's the top reason people say they like 'em: follow up shots because they know they can't get it done with the first shot.

If you actually want one shot kills, but you don't want to waste your time practicing, then what you need is a bigger caliber to cut 'em in half. In "half", because that's where you aim anyways (gut shots, aka spin n run) which is why you can't kill them with a 223 in the first place.

You're doin' it wrong.
 
So I've seen a lot on shot placement. Everybody knows a shoulder shot with a vmax results in a splash. The vitals and shoulder are a slim distance depending on how the coyote is standing. And a gut shot results in a spin n run. So that leaves the neck and face. 17 caliber guys are more than likely going at the neck. I'm getting the idea that everybody says shot placement but nobody is saying where that is. Cuz I can guarantee that all you "shot placement" guys have caught a shoulder before and have hit a little far back, which ends up letting the guts come out. Your not kidding anybody on here. To those that owned up to there flaws on lost coyotes, thank you for your ideas and thoughts! We'll get them ARs figured out soon enough. There just to darn fun to shoot to leave at home.
 
Quote:17 caliber guys are more than likely going at the neck.

Really? Is that from experience or something you just decided? Shoot many with a 17?

Speaking only for this 17 cal shooter, I mostly aim for the lungs. Shot placement, IMO, is in the vitals, and not hitting the shoulder or leg bones. Again IMO most people that have runners (not all) hit center mass or further back and they honestly think they placed the bullet in the correct spot. Larger calibers can be more forgiving with less than desirable shot placement, or sometimes hitting a shoulder bone.
 
Originally Posted By: Coyotejunki
17 caliber guys are more than likely going at the neck.

Really? Is that from experience or something you just decided? Shoot many with a 17?

A buddy of mine hunts with a 17 hmr and that's where he shoots em. I have no experience. Just a speculation.
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Shot placement is always crucial.

That being said, what the bullet does when it arrives is also crucial, which is why we can get splashes at 3,700fps and not at 3,000fps with the same bullet and placement.

In general, I stopped using the Vmax due to splashes (though the 75gr Vmax in my 243 works great with almost no fur damage, so far). When I switched to Nosler BT's, the splashes stopped. Using a Hornaday/Sierra softpoint, also no splashes.

In general, tipped bullets give me dramatic kills, where the coyotes get stiff and tip over, while with sftpts, the front end goes down, then the hips with maybe a 'tail flag'.

For your Ar, try a box of 45gr Barnes TSX and push them as fast as you can. I gaurantee you will not get any splashes, and they are usually fur friendly.
 
I really don't mean to be rude or arrogant or come off as an ahole. But it sounds like a) your being completely ignorant or b) you just don't won't to admit that poor shot placement could be the issue. An overwhelming number of experienced hunters suggest a very plausible answer to a problem and you basically just wrote it off as an impossibility.
I'm not saying it is what caused your runners but something did and it's easy for somebody to accept that it was their equipment, people in general have a hard time accepting the problem may be themselves.
I don't care if your shooting a 22lr or a freaking 500 nitro a poor shot is a poor shot. I shot a coyote right in the side of the head in Texas on a pig hunt last fall. I was using my 270 pushing 130gr SSTs, I blew the front half of his face clean of but I missed the brain and the coyote ran and it took a second shot to put him down. Last deer season using the same load I shot a coyote and I pulled he shot and hit him in front of the back leg and he ran, and a second shot this time right behind the front leg put him down. Big calibers and heavy bullets don't make up for poor shots.
Something else to consider is Coyotes have a will to live like no other animal I've ever hunted. We have probably all seen coyotes that should be dead in their tracks that run off to never be found. Personally I seen this happen twice in the last year alone. I watched through my binos as a friend shot a coyote behind the front leg on quartering away shot, the 60 gr Vmax he was using exited (from what I could tell through the binos) through the front of the chest and that coyote exploded, the snow looked like a murder seen. We had one little draw to cross to get over to that coyote and when we got there she was gone, we followed the blood trail over the next hill and lost it when the snow turned into bare ground, after spending hours searching we never found that coyote. It happens sometimes even on good shots.
As far as 17 calibers go it is not even fair to assume that people use neck shots based on what one friend uses with a 17 HMR. Most people regularly hunting with 17s are using the 17 remington, 17/204, 17 Fireball etc, which all out class the Mighty 17HMR buy a long ways.
As far as match bullets go I have found them to be excellent varmint/predator bullets. From my experience the Hornady Amax, Hornady BTHP Match, and Sierra Match King all perform admirably at 250 speeds. They explode violently after penetration and transfer their energy very well. Just because a company suggests not using them on game means diddly to me.
I sincerely hope you figure out the problem and everything works out. Don't take my comments personally as they are not intended that way. Perhaps I have greatly misjudged the tenor of your previous posts but when you ask a question. On a hunting forum and a common theme presents itself in the answers there is probably a reason for that. This forum has many members that make what i know and my experience look like absolutely nothing, perhaps someone else has a better solution to your problem.
 
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Originally Posted By: GhostsoftheGrass
Coyotejunki said:
Quote:17 caliber guys are more than likely going at the neck.

Really? Is that from experience or something you just decided? Shoot many with a 17?

A buddy of mine hunts with a 17 hmr and that's where he shoots em. I have no experience. Just a speculation.

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Originally Posted By: 22catwhat if you hit a coyote directly in the shoulder with a 243 with say a 80-100 grain bullet? and what does the hide look like when that happens?

for me, somewhere around softball size hole on exit
 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: GhostsoftheGrass
Coyotejunki said:
Quote:17 caliber guys are more than likely going at the neck.

Really? Is that from experience or something you just decided? Shoot many with a 17?

A buddy of mine hunts with a 17 hmr and that's where he shoots em. I have no experience. Just a speculation.

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OK, this is freaking hilarious. 17 HMR, in an AR also?
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Originally Posted By: CoyotejunkiOriginally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: GhostsoftheGrass
Coyotejunki said:
Quote:17 caliber guys are more than likely going at the neck.

Really? Is that from experience or something you just decided? Shoot many with a 17?

A buddy of mine hunts with a 17 hmr and that's where he shoots em. I have no experience. Just a speculation.

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OK, this is freaking hilarious. 17 HMR, in an AR also?


It's almost like this thread was destined to get to the 17HMR at some point. Oh the irony!
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