.223 Wynde vs. 5.56

You can think WHATEVER you want. I know how the RRA chamber is cut and throated. SHORTER throat than NATO. Guaranteed. Call RRA if you need to. I don't.........
 
Quote:

No. The Wylde is just a .223 with a chamber cut with more leade so you can shoot the longer bullets without hitting the rifling.
Quote:


This is NOT correct.......
 
I don't know and don't really care how RRA is chambering their rifles. I see if I order a JGS Wylde reamer, it's going to cut a sloppy chamber with a lot of free bore.
That would be good if I was interested in shooting 5.56 and .223, which I'm not.
According to you (and you may be right), RRA is calling something a Wylde chamber that doesn't conform to what JGS markets as a Wylde reamer, and also doesn't conform to what Bill Wylde stated as his design criteria in 2003.

And you may be right, maybe there's a Wylde chamber and a "RRA Wylde chamber" that are drastically different.

I doubt it, but maybe. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
I have a few 223s,5.56s, & one 'wylde' chamber. I do know I have to load shorter for the wylde chamber, shorter than 5.56 or regular 223 chamber. This is at times shorter than most book listed COLs. Maybe the freebore of .224 has something to do with it, resistance to the bullet as it touches.

I also know the custom builder I talked to said there were 100 chamber options available for the 223/5.56.
 
Why would a chamber designed to be a match chamber be more sloppy? That is EXACTLY what the NATO chamber is. NATO brass is thicker, therefore neck tolerances are greater than 223. Throats are longer due to fact that they do not want to get a case "stuck" due to excessively long brass.

The Wylde chamber is LESS sloppy, with a SHORTER throat. RRA did not misprint it in their ad. It is TRUE.......
 
NATO chamber is ALREADY excessively large or "sloppy" when firing 223 and purposely for feeding issues, AND for potentially excessively long brass issues. In other words, in order to be reliable in all conditions. MIL-SPEC. WHY would anyone dream of making it more "sloppy"? Please, let me know.......
 
2MG... you are an intellectual whirling dervish... you says something, and when you get caught, you change sides and say the opposite, and you argue both sides from the middle - it is easy to disagree with you on this one, because no matter what anyone says. you have said the opposite, and then the opposite to that, then the opposite to that... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

You said:

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
...and features a shorter throat for improved accuracy



I believe that is actually incorrect.




It is incorrect...

The throat is longer to tale some of the longer military ammo.

So it can't be short and long at the same time.

.



You are incorrect. The Wylde throat IS shorter.




And then you say...

Quote:
Cat--The NATO throat is longer to take the longer military ammo. You know NATO=Military. Get it?

Military ammo has NOTHING to do with why Bill Wylde designed the chamber. It was designed as a MATCH chamber. Less slop, tighter tolerances, shorter throat, less bullet jump, = greater accuracy.

Period.......



---------------

And then, in a moment of blindness, you can't see the chart that everyone else sees...

Quote:
What chart?




---------------

Then you say... (which is WRONG)

Quote:
The Wylde chamber has NOTHING to do with military applications nor seating longer bullets. It is a MATCH chamber cut to tighter tolerances than NATO with a shorter throat meaning less bullet jump for greater accuracy. THE END.......



Boy... BIG WRONGNESS HERE - these are not benchrest rifles, the "223 match" chamber is cut for "Across the course" rifles, and the match chamber is to shoot 75, 80, and 90 grain bullets at 600 and 1,000 yds - the throat is long because these stages are shot single loaded, and the bullets are seated WAY out - Sinclair makes special feeders for these rounds in "match shooting".. but since you don't shoot these matches, you have no idea what you are talking about.

--------------

And someone says...
Quote:
Quote:

No. The Wylde is just a .223 with a chamber cut with more leade so you can shoot the longer bullets without hitting the rifling.




This is NOT correct.......



He has it right, and you disagree - and you are wrong!!

-------------

Quote:
Why would a chamber designed to be a match chamber be more sloppy? That is EXACTLY what the NATO chamber is. NATO brass is thicker, therefore neck tolerances are greater than 223. Throats are longer due to fact that they do not want to get a case "stuck" due to excessively long brass.

The Wylde chamber is LESS sloppy, with a SHORTER throat. RRA did not misprint it in their ad. It is TRUE.......



Now you have done a 180 and say that the throat is LONGER (that means that you have totally changed your argument /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif) And you now claim that military brass is sloppy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif that's funny, QC at lake city is tighter than at Rem or the other commercial makers - but you needed an out to excuse changing your mind.

------------

Quote:
NATO chamber is ALREADY excessively large or "sloppy" when firing 223 and purposely for feeding issues, AND for potentially excessively long brass issues. In other words, in order to be reliable in all conditions. MIL-SPEC. WHY would anyone dream of making it more "sloppy"? Please, let me know.......



Lookie here... here's the numbers.

SnapzProXScreenSnapz005.jpg



But since you can't seem to be able to read the chart.

223 Match -- base dia 0.3779" -- shoulder dia 0.3568" -- neck at body 0.2510" -- neck at mouth 0.2510" -- base to case mouth 1.7600" -- neck length 0.2034" -- free bore -- 0.0680"

Wilde -- base dia 0.3810" -- shoulder dia 0.3572" -- neck at body 0.2566" -- neck at mouth 0.2558" -- base to case mouth 1.7726" -- neck length 0.2228 -- free bore -- 0.0619"

Nato -- base dia 0.3803" -- shoulder dia 0.3560" -- neck at body 0.2550" -- neck at mouth 0.2550" -- base to case mouth 1.7750" -- neck length 0.2180 -- free bore -- 0.0500"

So...

In the body base, the Wilde chamber is Larger (sloppier) than either the 223 Match or the NATO (how do you get sloppier than NATO /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)

At the shoulder, the Wilde chamber is Larger (sloppier) than either the 223 Match or the NATO (how do you get sloppier than NATO /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)

In the neck at the body, the Wilde chamber is Larger (sloppier) than either the 223 Match or the NATO (how do you get sloppier than NATO /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)

In the neck at the mouth, the Wilde chamber is Larger (sloppier) than either the 223 Match or the NATO (how do you get sloppier than NATO /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)

In the base to case mouth, the Wilde chamber is 0.126" longer than the match, and 0.024" shorter than the NATO.

In the neck length, the Wilde chamber is 0.01" Longer than the NATO, and 0.246" longer than the match /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif (how do you get sloppier than NATO /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)

In the free bore, the Wilde chamber is 0.119 longer than the NATO, and 0.061 shorter than the match (because the match chamber is designed to shoot loooong bullets, as said above.

So, 2MG, the Wylde is LARGER in most dimentions... id est, "Sloppier"!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

You seem to have a very large problem with these threads - you make stuff up, trying to sound like an expert, and when you get caught, you lash out at the person that caught you. It's not me, you have a problem with EVERYBODY... like your 22-250 thread - you make this stuff up as you go along!

-
2MG... you're still dancin' and jivin'...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

For this, you get awarded an new prize...

LittleBullPoo.jpg
 
2MG:

After you get this one sorted out, are you close to publishing your promised and long-awaited Doctoral Dissertation on "Why the 22-250 is Hard to Reload"...?

Or was it a Master's Thesis...? I forget...

-BCB
 
I have the chamber prints in front of me for the SAAMI 223, the NATO 5.56 and the Wylde chambers and the longest leade is the Wylde. While RRA may ream a chamber with a short leade and label it Wylde it is not as designed by Wylde.

Jack
 
Quote:
I have the chamber prints in front of me for the SAAMI 223, the NATO 5.56 and the Wylde chambers and the longest leade is the Wylde. While RRA may ream a chamber with a short leade and label it Wylde it is not as designed by Wylde.

Jack




Jack why do you think the Wylde in the Rock River shoots as well as it does??

I have been reading this post, and actually alot of the comments are a bit confusing. I am not a gunsmith, nor a machininst so some of the terms are a bit vague to me.

However we do have 2 RR Varminter's that are in the 223 Wylde chambering(according to RR), and they really shoot. They actually shoot better than any other AR's I have ever seen. And I have seen a few. Tom.
 
I don't know.
Maybe they just are better barrels and maybe they do shorten the leade from what the Wylde chamber calls for? My guess would be just better barrels although a shorter leade would help with the shorter bullets.

Jack
 
Making one assumption and one guess I am going to say Mr Wylde has a
bit of hands on experience and a lot of knowledge and if you look at the pilot
it is tight, the throat is tight and with the long throat the angle is less than
all the other .223 chamberings. Just guessing I would say the 1.25 degree
throat angle settles the bullet into the lands better. And then Wilson makes
very good barrels.
 
You guys have done it again. You made me walk out to my loading room to look something up. I have a bushy with a 5.56 chamber and two RRAs. The COAL for the bushy for a 60gn vmax is 2.366. The coals for the RRAs are 2.295 and 2.292 for a 60gn vmax. This does seem to support that RRAs throat are not as deep as Bushys 5.56 chamberings. I always check for max coal even for a gun that limits me to 2.260 because of mag length.

I'm also aware that the published max COAL is 2.250, but I haven't had a magazine jam yet with them out that extra .010.

Just my .02
 
i'm not a benchrest shooter tho i hav shot off a bench at rest vs one that's moving.....i always thot the wylde was middle ground in bullet seating....but what do i know...i'm just an old stbd door gunner with a moving view of the world.
 
Last edited:
Why does the RRA with Wylde chamber shoot so well.

Bigwheeler hit on it a little bit. With the .224 dia. throat and assuming the chamber is cut straight with the bore, the bullet is self aligned as it hits the lands. This negates to a large degree the short bullets fired in a long throat theory. Most all of the RRA rifles with the 3/4 MOA have the Wylde chamber.

I bought a 223 upper from Dan Carey last year. I told him I would be shooting 50-55g bullets and he recommended the Wylde chamber, although his is modified with a slightly shorter throat. With the shorter bullets seated to function in the magazine you are not going to reach the lands. So.. I would rather have the smaller throat dia. with the longer length than the bigger throat dia. with the shorter length.

Just my 2 cents.
 
All chambers from RRA were not wylde, though I believe they are today.(Correction they still use nato in the carbine stuff)

Three characters side by side over the chamber.
First Character: N or W...N for NATO chamber or W for Wylde
Second Character: 8 or 9...8 for 1:8 twist and 9 for 1:9 twist.
Third Character: A, S, or C...A for moly (chrome-moly Alloy), S for Stainless, and C for Chrome-lined alloy.

New Codes:
The actual base part number from our parts system/catalog, located over the chamber. These are the most common. Unless indicated otherwise, all stainless barrels are 1:8 twist and all moly barrels (chrome-lined or not) are 1:9.

All 16" moly barrels have a NATO chamber, while the 20" moly and all stainless barrels have a Wylde chamber.

200 =moly CAR
200CL =Chrome-lined CAR
202 =moly R4
204 =Chrome-lined R4
205 =Chrome-lined light-weight R4, 1:7
206 =Stainless CAR
208 =16" varmint
210 =moly Mid
212 =Chrome-lined Mid
215 =Stainless Mid
218 =18" varmint
219 =Chrome-lined light-weight R4, 1:9
220 =moly Std (rifle)
221 =Chrome-lined Std (rifle)
222 =Stainless NM(rifle)
223 =Stainless NM (rifle), unthreaded
226 =20" varmint
228 =24" varmint (1:8)
229 =24" varmint (1:12)

There may be "S" & "C" after the numbers. The "S" is for stainless and the "C" is for chrome-lined.
 
Last edited:
WHAT in the heck are you talking about here? Where did I say anything other than the Wylde throat is shorter than the NATO? I never once said anything otherwise. Did you read the whole thread or just pile 19 quotes on top of each other to confuse people. You are out of your friggin' mind.
 
Quote:
WHAT in the heck are you talking about here? Where did I say anything other than the Wylde throat is shorter than the NATO? I never once said anything otherwise. Did you read the whole thread or just pile 19 quotes on top of each other to confuse people. You are out of your friggin' mind.



Still dancing and jiving.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Back
Top