1/4" all day long rifle's.....

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Bottom line is that it is easier to get groups small by writing things off.



You hit the nail right on the head "DOYLE" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ankney added the extra shot as well he should. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif "You shoot it you own it" sums it up nicly.

A flyer reguardless of wheather it's the shooter (called flyer) or the rifle, load, wind, or whatever is part of the equasion. When you go to a BR Match you can't explain it away. A bullet hole in the target counts. Plain and simple.

I remember a similar thread that Brad started a while back where he said, "no called flyers, no do overs, and no mulligans". I agree.

As mentioned there is a pattern developing, and it seems to be a little more than twice the infamous 1/4" all day long.
.6 - .7 is still some fine shooting and well under MOA.
 
With a few exceptions, we're not benchrest shooters with benchrest guns. Most of our equipment, mostly on a budget, lacks the ability to shoot 1/4" groups anything more than occasionaly. And most of us probably lack the skills to do it even if we had a capable rifle. That's why we're not benchrest shooters.
 
25 shots of quality factory ammo could cost anywhere from $20-$35 depending on what type of ammo. I doubt many folks will take up this challenge due to the cost.

Reloaders can shoot it for less than $10 easy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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25 shots of quality factory ammo could cost anywhere from $20-$35 depending on what type of ammo. I doubt many folks will take up this challenge due to the cost.

Reloaders can shoot it for less than $10 easy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif







your kidding right? what the [beeep] is $20 now a days . 4 gallons of gas ................trip to tacobell......20-30 is cheap fun......
 
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Yes a match is pretty much all day. Five targets in the morning, and five in the afternoon. You may have as many as three, or four relays, so you shoot your target "five shots on the record in seven minutes" then you go reload your shells. So about 45 minutes later you shoot again. Then you do the same thing at 200 yards on Sunday.
 
In perusing other threads, I have concluded those of us who have posted targets own sub-standard equipment and we suck as riflemen. My ego is bruised.
 
This is the first snobbish thread I've ran into on this site. I don't care what groups any of you shoot, I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut hole, my animal is just as dead as yours. To think that your rifle is better than mine or mine is better than yours is just plan childish. I really enjoy this site, because I receive a lot of advice from you guys, but this thread is totally worthless. Who cares if someone exaggerates what their rifle will do, let them be. If they show up at a shootin' match the truth will soon be known.

 
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brdeano..sorry this isn't a 25 shot string..with the same load..
i decided to whip up some new load's for my 17 remington..the bullet's are Nagel custom 30 grainer's..these are my 1st try's with his bullet's..also my 1st try with varget in my 17..primer is a remington 7 1/2..i decided to seat the bullet's .030 off the land's to start..my o-give measurement is 1.901..all four group's were less than m.o.a. so i'm cool..the bore was clean..i shot 1 fouler "however" i accidently grabbed a round from the 22.0 load..that's why it's only four shot's..scope used is a Nikon Buckmaster 3x9 set @ 9 power..i imagine guy's out there can do better..this is typical of my group's..the orange bulls-eye is 1"..
DSCN3338-1.jpg
 
I believe the point of the thread was that people may be getting an unrealistic idea of what their new, off the shelf or not, hunting rifle will/should shoot. People are getting this idea because they are comparing themselves to these "internet rifle" and thinking less of their skills and/or rifle.

I think this is a good thread that may let some inexperienced shooters know what real life groups look like with a hunting rifle. If you don't want to show your targets, don't, I probably won't(only because I don't get to the range very often). I did print four targets to give it a try someday.

I think we are all adult enough to handle it.

Good luck, -Ron
 
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I believe the point of the thread was that people may be getting an unrealistic idea of what their new, off the shelf or not, hunting rifle will/should shoot. People are getting this idea because they are comparing themselves to these "internet rifle" and thinking less of their skills and/or rifle.

I think this is a good thread that may let some inexperienced shooters know what real life groups look like with a hunting rifle. If you don't want to show your targets, don't, I probably won't(only because I don't get to the range very often). I did print four targets to give it a try someday.

I think we are all adult enough to handle it.

Good luck, -Ron



That's a bunch of BS. No way you could get anything you just said from the original post.(Go back and read it) The first post was arrogant to say the least.
 
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That's a bunch of BS. No way you could get anything you just said from the original post.(Go back and read it) The first post was arrogant to say the least.



Okay, I went back and read it again. You maybe right about the first post but, I think the discussion is a good one.

I can remember on a few occasions someone making a claim similar to, 1/4" all day long, and getting a response about the top shooters in the world could not do that. Just good to see some honest responses with real world hunting rifle targets, not empty claims.

-Ron
 
Fly killin's fun... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

fly.jpg


The problem with the Sniper's Hide target idea is it is based on honor. And a dishonorable person can get another dishonorable person to "witness" it for him...

The heavy 30 cal Matchkings are about 40 cents each now, counting shipping. Add another dime's worth of powder and primer and you're talking 50 cents a shot for many rifles.

That's $12.50 not counting cost of travel to the range and other related expenses just to attempt the 5 group agg...

And what if it did come out looking fantastic?

No one would believe it. Powder burns on the target paper... shot it at 25 yards, etc.

So the notion is entirely untenable. Can we see that? Of course... we see it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Dan
 
Well RePete, since we are going downhill now I may as well follow it.

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That's a bunch of BS. No way you could get anything you just said from the original post.(Go back and read it) The first post was arrogant to say the least.



Not sure how the first post was arrogant? The original poster made it well known that the groups shot were larger than expected. Was it due to the rifle name mentioned? Would it still have been considered snobbish if 1/4" Sakos were the one? I doubt it and some probably would have got a chuckle out of it.
 
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I believe the point of the thread was that people may be getting an unrealistic idea of what their new, off the shelf or not, hunting rifle will/should shoot. People are getting this idea because they are comparing themselves to these "internet rifle" and thinking less of their skills and/or rifle.

I think this is a good thread that may let some inexperienced shooters know what real life groups look like with a hunting rifle. If you don't want to show your targets, don't, I probably won't(only because I don't get to the range very often). I did print four targets to give it a try someday.

I think we are all adult enough to handle it.

Good luck, -Ron



That's a bunch of BS. No way you could get anything you just said from the original post.(Go back and read it) The first post was arrogant to say the least.



If anything, I probably shouldn't have singled out the savage guys. I found the humor in it, I guess alot of guys didn't. Some guys get real sensitive about their rifles, I don't, and some shoot better than others. Ever read any A-bolt bashing thread's? Ever read any of the Kimber bashing threads? Surely you've read the threads about the Rem's that won't shoot?

I still retain one outstanding shooting savage. I did sell some that weren't up to par though....had a few rem's that weren't all that good either.

gun002.jpg
 
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Fly killin's fun... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

fly.jpg


The problem with the Sniper's Hide target idea is it is based on honor. And a dishonorable person can get another dishonorable person to "witness" it for him...

The heavy 30 cal Matchkings are about 40 cents each now, counting shipping. Add another dime's worth of powder and primer and you're talking 50 cents a shot for many rifles.

That's $12.50 not counting cost of travel to the range and other related expenses just to attempt the 5 group agg...

And what if it did come out looking fantastic?

No one would believe it. Powder burns on the target paper... shot it at 25 yards, etc.

So the notion is entirely untenable. Can we see that? Of course... we see it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Dan



Dan, what does a dishonorable person stand to gain from cheating on that target...some anonymous person on the www telling him good job???? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

As far as the cost of loading supplies being a deterrent, I don't get that either. A guy can choose to spend his excess cash eating out at McDonalds every day for lunch, hanging out at the bar with buddies, going to dinner and a movie. What about guys who choose to smoke cigarette's, their buring up quite a few bullets a week right there. I prefer to spend it on powder and bullets, and then shoot them up. I hope your not paying 40$/100 for your .30cal SMK's, you can get better deals than that?
 
I think maybe some folks are missing the point of the thread. We all know there are many outlandish claims made on the Internet and this forum isn't immune from BS. I think this thread was started with the idea of adding some down to earth performance based reality to cyber land. There are several pieces of valuable information that can be gathered from this thread. First, the five shot, five string target can give a person a realistic idea of what they can reasonably expect from thier rifle, glass, ammo combination. The thread also points out there is a substantial gap between "best efforts" and par performance. The targets posted show what can reasonably be expected from a decent rifleman shooting a good field rifle, say Sendero weight and lighter. I don't think the guys are snobby gear queers and equipment whores, but maybe I am wrong.

I have seen factory rifles with mid-range glass that will perform amazingly well at 100 yards. I know for a fact my CZ 527 Varmint with Bushnell glass will shoot right along with my Remington VSF with NXF optics at 100 yards. Move that back to 500 yards and beyond and the Remington will blow the 527 out of the water. I doubt any seasoned shooter will debate that comment, and I didn't have to reference group sizes at all.

As far as leaving the Internet BSers alone and letting them promote their favorite rifle and/or load data based on unrealistic claims and expectations, I suppose that will work. Leave them alone and let them express themselves. Do those who want to offer a counter opinion not have the same right? Of course we have the right as long as we are civil and not combative. But there really is no need because experienced shooters already recognize the Internet is often a really poor source of information when the shooter's testosterone and ego are at stake. I take questionable accuracy claims with a grain of salt and I realize the claims are probably based in fact, but they may not be an accurate representation of day in and day out performance. Statements like (making this up) "I am consitently getting groups in the .3s with my Walmart cheapie rifle and pawn shop Tasco" really means "Man this rifle shoots like a house on fire and I didn't break the bank on the outfit."

As for the 1/4 inch all day long, I read that somewhere, but I don't recall where. I think the original poster was using the quote tongue in cheek because it has become somewhat of a standing joke.

FWIW, I shot the target this morning with a CZ 527 American and I intended to post the results to show what can be done with load development, making sure the known CZ issues are addressed first, etc. If such a post would be seen as childish, snobbish, and no one would care, I'll keep it to myself.
 
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