When do you stop and let them breed?

mike said
Quote:
Nonya, I bet there's more "common" folk on this website than fanatics.




FANATIC- marked by excessive enthusiasm for and intense devotion to a cause or idea
( THATS ME /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif)


Mike I would have to disagree pal.
There are over 9000 members here right?
I see it as the common folk the (common predator caller)are the 8900 that don’t stop bye much if at all.
The 100 or so guys that are on this sight every day and moltable times a day makes them fanatics.
I am a fanatic predator hunter that’s why I am signed on at 12am when I should be sleeping to get up early and go fishing
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
98% here are fanatica mike, i bet 1/2 of the guy here make there owne hand calls or elec. yep thats a fanatic /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Last edited:
George,
There's well over 12,000 members. You have your percentages backwards. The fanatics are the smaller percentage of the two. You are right about us fanatics being on here all the time though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Here it is Fathers Day and what is the first thing I do, check PM! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

I'm hopeless. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
mikegranger,
People tell me that I look real healthy, but looks are deceiving. My stamina is low and I get tired easily. I have open invitations to out of state hunts that I would never have turned down ten years ago. All of the recent talk regarding decoy dogs is reviving my spirit though. I would give one arm and half of one leg for a good decoy dog if I had a good place to keep it. Living in the city and all if you know what I mean. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif You are doing a fine job with this forum Mike. Keep up the good work.
 
Thanks Rich, I appreciate the good comments, especially from you. FYI, I retired my "old" cronk call last year when you sent me the new "cronk". That baby sounds so sweet I just couldn't let myself hang it on the wall. Many a coyote will be lured to their death with that howler! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Hunting with a dog really adds another dimension to coyote hunting. Bubba is not only a good hunter but a mighty fine companion too. He goes with me everywhere. Matter of fact, he can jump in the back of my pickup even with the tailgate up. Guess where he goes the second I walk outside? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Don't they have a pill for "lack of stamina" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif, take some and go coyote hunting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
It has always astounded me that experienced predator callers can consider such a beautiful, complex and fascinating canid to be vermin(various destructive insects or small animals rgarded as pests, as lice or rats.)

With the fascination and respect so many of us have developed for these animals over the years comes affection. That is what puts us on the opposite side of the fence from those that have developed an inordinate and undeserved hatred for the coyote.
Passions run high on both sides. It is understandable that sheepmen who are facing financial ruin from coyote depredation develope an intense dislike for the methods that coyotes use. But hunters who mount a personal crusade against the coyote because they view it as a competitor for the deer and turkey that they themselves hope to kill in the future should step back and take a closer look at the irony of their motives and beliefs.
The arguement that there is no closed season on the coyote does not make killing parents and puppies moral or ethical simply because it is not yet illegal. That will change. And I will campaign for it.
The management of coyotes at this time is still dictated by politics rather than sound biological recommendations. Present attitudes are a hold over from the war on predators that has been waged by the fes
deral government since Fish and Wildlife Service was inaugerated in July of 1885. Pioneers and settlers demanded aid in the private war against predators and were later joined by cattlemen (primarily wolf depredation) and sheepmen. These stockmen formed politically powerful Cattlemens Assoc. and Wool Growers Assoc. and elected government representatives that would assure that their needs were addressed and acted upon by congress and state legislatures. There was no middle ground. All out war was declared with the goal of total extirpation. The war was waged by private "wolfers" and govt. employees of WS, Bureau of Biological Survey, Parc, Predatory Animal Research Laboratory, Control Methods Laboratory, Division of Animal Damage Control, Division of Wildlife Management. USDA, and APHIS.
Government sponsored propaganda convinced the public that the harsh campaign , and the questionable methods they used, against predators was both reasonable and socially acceptable against a cruel, heartless and murderous coyote, wolf, lion , etc. When the wolf was extirpated the full weight of the machine turned toward the coyote.
In 1965 the Leopold Report to the Secretary of the Interior recommended that overkill be halted. In January of 1972 the Cain Committee Report was published and things began to change. 1080 was banned and "scorched earth" policies were abandoned. The concept of selective removal was embraced and Congress appropriated funds for Biological research of the coyote. Prior to that, Hope Ryden had written concerning the coyote " lore abounds, but facts are hard to come by." Today we have the published papers of scores of reseach studies by such as Camenzind, Lehner, Bekoff, Hays, Gipson, Silvers, Wells, Jaeger, Barrett, etc. etc. etc.
We have wealth of information about the behavior and ecological niche that this terrific little animal occupies and most of the hysterical misconceptions that had been perpetuated by stockmen and hunters with an agenda of extirpation have been proven to be false.
All of this has been offered to make the point that in this modern age of quick and easy accurate information old traditions and fictions and biases still prevent some degree of protection for the coyote that is afforded other furbearers, most of which are also predators. Some states have offered some protection during whelping season, I am sure that more will follow. I will happily and fanatically work to that end.
Sept. to March I will happily and fanatically call the coyote and support all that do.
 
Rich, plant your wrinkled old butt in your vehicle and drive out here so that you can plant it next to my wrinkled old butt on a stand and call some coyotes with Mattie. If you enjoy calling with her we can fix you up with a good calling dog to take home with you. You can keep the one half of a leg. I might consider the arm though.
Naw, you'll need both for your dog.
 
Why let them breed? Cronk, did you do chemo or something? My wife is too tired most of the time to do anything, two years after her first chemo, now starts next chemo on the 27th of June. I hate to see how the second one will affect her. She got artheritis in neck and back from the first one, and can't sleep at night.
I am thinking of trading my '05 Silverado, Duramax in for a '01 Cummins, to lower payments and pick up a couple of miles per gallon. It is possible I might go to MT to a dealership in Missula. If you are up to it, if I go, you can ride with and we could stop in WY to call a couple places. Hope you can build more stanima!! Later,T.20
 
Rich in AZ..If coyotes should have furbearer status then the season should run from Nov-Feb..but then that would iterfere with your club hunt in Sept.were there tallied at the end of the day..then pitched in the weeds...now that's respect and affection.
 
Tactical .20,
I had quadruple coronary bypass surgery a little over a year ago. By rights, I probably should be going 90 mph again now that the blockage has been repaired. It could be that I just got old before my time, or maybe the drugs I must take to control blood pressure have something to do with it. Your invitation is appreciated, and I will keep it in mind.

Rich Higgins,
I will be watching the internet prices on airline tickets. Your offer is almost too good to refuse. Even if we don't get any coyotes, I can still kick your arse for being in favor of placing a hunting season on coyotes.
 
Quote:
Rich in AZ..If coyotes should have furbearer status then the season should run from Nov-Feb..but then that would iterfere with your club hunt in Sept.were there tallied at the end of the day..then pitched in the weeds...now that's respect and affection.


Rob Meyers, I would truly love to see that happen. However, I will have to content myself with the AZ rules that close the furbearer season from March 15 to August 15. If that minimal protection is afforded the coyote I will be happy.
Most members of the club are of the same mindset as you and they will resist any change in regulations.
You are right, after check in the coyotes are disposed of unceremoniously, although the Raptor lady often attends checkins and takes the carcasses to feed the birds that are being rehabilitated.
Your sarcasm was duly noted. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Quote:
Rich Higgins,
I will be watching the internet prices on airline tickets. Your offer is almost too good to refuse. Even if we don't get any coyotes, I can still kick your arse for being in favor of placing a hunting season on coyotes.



I'll pick you up at the airport. We can make room for you at the house. If you stay long enough you will probably want to spend some time at Jay's as well. Bring your camera.
I know that I don't have to tell you that there are no guarantees that you will see coyotes but we will stay in my neck of the woods I'm pretty sure we can put a bunch in your lap. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Rich H,
If Jay shows up, we don't need a real live coyote. Jay looks enough like one to make up for it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Rich,
Excellent post. I too marvel at how some hunters want to eliminate most "predators" because they take "their" deer or elk. It really is a foreign concept to me as I believe there is room for a full gamet of wildlife, both predator and prey.

Each state makes it's own game laws and all it takes is some bad press and an organized effort and seasons we take for granted now, will be gone in a blink of an eye. Ask Redfrog about how hound hunting for coyotes was eliminated in Alberta. Rather interesting and happened quickly. Now I can't even take Bubba up there to lure them in!

I see the anti's jumping all over summer coyote hunting in the states that still allow it. It's just a matter of time. Biologicaly, it's impossible to justify. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
Biologicly it may be impossible to justify,and in many peoples opinion the killing of coyotes at any time of the year is unjustifiable,allow the opinions of anyone to reduce the hunting opportunitys we have now and it wont be long before you wont have to worry about when or where to hunt because it wont be an option.People have been shooting coyotes year round here for a century,it hasnt turned them into an endagered species,the number of coyote hunters is probably at an all time low and the coyote numbers around me are at a high,time has proven that we dont need to give them a break in order to keep a healthy population,thats proof that no text book can disprove.A season on yotes?No evidence can justify the need for one.
 
Nonya,

The answer is relative. To you, probably one coyote is too many, others would appreciate higher population levels.

Growing up in the West, I've always heard how evil and destructive they are, and as Rich pointed out, war has been waged for decades on the coyote.

But, go to Canada and the attitude is very different. When I first went up to hunt with Redfrog, we would go right to a ranchers house and call coyotes off of his back porch (literally in one instance). I was horrified at first thinking there wouldn't be a coyote within miles of a ranchhouse, because that's the way it is down here. But, I was wrong. The coyotes were right there and the rancher didn't seem to care. So much so, that I completely changed my way of calling in Canada. Instead of saying "we're too close to the ranchhouse to do any good", I would say to Redfrog, "look, a ranchhouse, let's go over there to call".

I ask you, what's the difference? Ranchers in Canada don't seem to mind having coyotes around, and down here, any coyote that "might" come in contact with livestock should be killed.

I also notice it doesn't appear they kill coyotes from planes like ADC does here. I might be wrong on the ADC stuff, but coyotes are far more plentiful in Canada and landowners don't seem to want to conduct a mass extermination.

We used to shoot eagles and hawks non-discriminately too. Those days are over, and guess what? There's still antelope, deer, elk and sheep. All over the west!
 
My own stomping grounds in Harrison county (Iowa) has seen a major drop in coyote population this year, but it wasn't caused by hunting and trapping. Mange is the culprit. Just one of nature's many ways of controlling the population. I would be against any effort to place a hunting season on the coyote. I don't see many young hunters or trappers out there anymore. Just a few old die hard hunters and trappers that love the outdoors, and love the challenge of fooling wild animals in their own environment. We have plenty of deer and turkey hunters, but calling and trapping seems to be a dying art.
 
Also, just because "that's the way we've always done it" isn't going to work much longer. We hunters need to be smarter than the folks trying to shut us down. The old adage, "better to lose the battle than the war", comes to mind. As you know, more and more non-hunters are moving into Montana. At the same time, fewer and fewer hunters buy license each year. What do you reckons going to happen when we jump up to defend our stance on any hunting issue by saying "that's the way we have always done it". We'll lose the issue in short order.

Another example. Just a couple of years ago, the black tailed pdog was being petitioned to be listed as "threatened". It wasn't because there are too few pdogs, but it's because there "range" has reduced by 98% over historical levels. The anti's jumped all over this and could very well have won the war IF we (the state of Montana) wouldn't have given a little and stopped shooting of pdogs on public land during the "whelping" season. Now, you can't shoot pdogs until June 1, unless you're on private land. The alternative would have been to lose pdog shooting all together. I think it was wise to lose the one battle but win the war. Now, how are the anti's going to attack pdog shooting. I think they lost the only opportunity they had with "killing pups". Any sensible person will agree that one cannot "shoot out" a pdog town. I know, I've tried! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Quote:
He never would have seen it, if he hadn't of believed it



ChiliRojo, that is a fabulous line! I have copied it to my great quotes file. Thank you. Profound.
 
Back
Top