If I were the devil

Swamp,

That's the great thing about faith. There is no method needed. The way 'my' faith was established may be totally different than how someone else established their faith.

Too many get wrapped up in the argument of who's right or wrong. When one falls prey to this delusional debate, slowly and steadily arrogance creeps in and ultimately will replace ones faith.
 
I don't know. Seems like a lot of believing without anything else to supporting it, leads to the arrogance of spiritual one upmanship. The "my God IS the only God and better then yours syndrome " Then, of course we have the world of cults. Are they to outside the realm of criticism, since we cannot judge the method of their believing? Who is to say
 
Swamp,

With all due respect I would take cover immediately, not to harm any innocent bystanders when your head explodes from all that unnecessary thinking. I'm sure it's a ticking time bomb up in there. Doesn't it get tiring?

Have a great weekend!

Mike
 
Originally Posted By: swampwalkerClearly, you know very little about Buddhism. In no way are God or Gods central to Buddhist teachings. The budda hardly mentioned anything having to do with an afterlife and often steered his monks away from speculative talk about it.




Again, it's easy to cast stones like a child and say I don't believe and there is no evidence, however you cannot prove your point and there is no evidence to suggest that what ever value system you are trying to claim is even remotely provable or true. So it all boils down to faith and Trust.

The religious explanation is a lot more palatable to explain all that happens in our understanding than.. "No it doesn't exist, prove it," type of claims. I have yet to see anything from either of you to support your views or claims, what ever they may be. That is what makes you Trolls. Just stirring and insulting.

But, hey you know all about all religions, despite never having spent any time there in those regions. I have lived in Japan for over a year, where i studied the language and religion. I visited dozens of buhddist temples.

here are images of just one that i spent several weekends at talking to the monks and walking the grounds, reading and learning.
https://www.google.com/search?q=gotemba+...920&bih=974

This one in Okinawan was my favorite.
https://traveldreamscapes.wordpress.com/2014/09/16/japan-okinawa-underground-caves/

BTW they make Sake with those snakes, called HabuSake. (http://nihonscope.com/food-and-sake/habushu-snake-sake-courageous/ ) If you are bit by these snakes you have hours to live. They are in the jungles and there are several kinds that lay in wait. I found many of them, and during my 2 week Jungle survival training at The jungle warfare school, you learned to live and survive in the jungles. There are two courses, one is a training course for fighting, the other is the survival. I went to both.



The 2 week tour of the temples in Thailand was also incredible.
from the Rose garden to the Ancient City of Siam ( [url=Https://www.chaam.com/ancient-city-siam-bangkok.php][url=Https://www.chaam.com/ancient-city-siam-bangkok.php]Https://www.chaam.com/ancient-city-siam-bangkok.php[/url][/url] )
As well as the tour i took of the jungle buddhist Tiger temple, where the jungle monks treated and cared for animals injured and brought to them. There you see a lot of local wildlife. You can wash an elephant in the river, or pet a tiger. Both were a lot of fun.

I also spent time in India, and Korea.

Where did you get your knowledge? You claim to know all.. So share where this fountain of knowledge came from. A book? haha

A simple wikipedia search of Buhddism shows your lack of understanding. Your clearly missing the part of Buddhism vs. Buddha.
It's like saying that Jesus is the only part and missing the parts about the spirit, and angles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_deities
Buddhism includes a wide array of divine beings that are venerated in various ritual and popular contexts. Initially they included mainly Indian deities such as devas and yakshas, but later came to include other Asian spirits and local gods. They range from enlightened Buddhas to regional spirits adopted by Buddhists or practiced on the margins of the religion.

Buddhists later also came to incorporate aspects from countries such as China and Japan into their pantheons.[1] As such, it includes many aspects taken from other mythologies of those cultures. Saraswati is a Hindu Deva from Gandhara and the kami[1] are considered to be local, Japanese bodhisattvas by many Japanese Buddhists.

Here is a simple link to see a listing of the gods/Deities. the 3rd one down on the list shows the 10 most popular.
http://bfy.tw/ECsk



Stick to insulting Christians before drowning while swimming out into the deep end.
 
Buddhanet.com

When asked "do Buddhist believe in God?"

No, we do not. There are several reasons for this. The Buddha, like modern sociologists and psychologists, believed that religious ideas and especially the god idea have their origin in fear. The Buddha says:
"Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains,
sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines".

Dp 188

Primitive man found himself in a dangerous and hostile world, the fear of wild animals, of not being able to find enough food, of injury or disease, and of natural phenomena like thunder, lightning and volcanoes was constantly with him. Finding no security, he created the idea of gods in order to give him comfort in good times, courage in times of danger and consolation when things went wrong. To this day, you will notice that people become more religious at times of crises, you will hear them say that the belief in a god or gods gives them the strength they need to deal with life. You will hear them explain that they believe in a particular god because they prayed in time of need and their prayer was answered. All this seems to support the Buddha’s teaching that the god-idea is a response to fear and frustration. The Buddha taught us to try to understand our fears, to lessen our desires and to calmly and courageously accept the things we cannot change. He replaced fear, not with irrational belief but with rational understanding.

The second reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is because there does not seem to be any evidence to support this idea. There are numerous religions, all claiming that they alone have god’s words preserved in their holy book, that they alone understand god’s nature, that their god exists and that the gods of other religions do not. Some claim that god is masculine, some that she is feminine and others that it is neuter. They are all satisfied that there is ample evidence to prove the existence of their god but they laugh in disbelief at the evidence other religions use to prove the existence of another god. It is not surprising that with so many different religions spending so many centuries trying to prove the existence of their gods that still no real, concrete, substantial or irrefutable evidence has been found. Buddhists suspend judgement until such evidence is forthcoming.

The third reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is that the belief is not necessary. Some claim that the belief in a god is necessary in order to explain the origin on the universe. But this is not so. Science has very convincingly explained how the universe came into being without having to introduce the god-idea. Some claim that belief in god is necessary to have a happy, meaningful life. Again we can see that this is not so. There are millions of atheists and free-thinkers, not to mention many Buddhists, who live useful, happy and meaningful lives without belief in a god. Some claim that belief in god’s power is necessary because humans, being weak, do not have the strength to help themselves. Once again, the evidence indicates the opposite. One often hears of people who have overcome great disabilities and handicaps, enormous odds and difficulties, through their own inner resources, through their own efforts and without belief in a god. Some claim that god is necessary in order to give man salvation. But this argument only holds good if you accept the theological concept of salvation and Buddhists do not accept such a concept. Based on his own experience, the Buddha saw that each human being had the capacity to purify the mind, develop infinite love and compassion and perfect understanding. He shifted attention from the heavens to the heart and encouraged us to find solutions to our problems through self-understanding.

as I said Buddhist do not believe in God.

 
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hahaha..

That is your link?? It doesn't work since you posted it wrong.. It's a .net smart one.

I know that site.. It's a leftists view of something they read about.


Again, you are just reading not living.. swim back to the shallow water before you drown. You skipped the part where you shouldn't confuse Buddha with Buddhists. Buddha is an individual. Like a pope, there have been many. But, hey you know all, cause you found a site that supports your superficial 10,000 foot understanding of a religion. Just like your understanding of Christianity.

I actually posted working links, and video's that show the gods.. Try the last link.
 
Actually, It's not a link I posted. I posted it to give authenticity to my post,. Considering it was written by a Buddhist on a Buddhist website, I'll take their word over yours, that they do not worship gods. I see You've done a lot in your world traveling adventures. If you happen to see Woodguru out there, send him our regards.
 
Fursniper,
Did you think about the doctrine of election/predestination, as opposed your doctrine of free will?

I was wondering what would cause you to choose one over the other.

*
 
Originally Posted By: swampwalkerOriginally Posted By: tnshootist
I guess if you want to study something it would have to be other peoples beliefs. It would be hard to study nothing for very long.Not much to say about nothing.
I guess thats why you just talk about what other people believe.


As far as studying many religions? Yeah, why not? Why would anyone limit themselves to studying any one faith, just because it happened to be the first one handed to them as a child? Poor souls indeed.


Swampy,
it's because most of them are indoctrinated from the cradle by parents and religious authority figures.
They are fed a constant diet of that particular religious denomination.
By the time they are teens most of them manage to have that "holy spirit" experience that everybody around them has been waiting on.
After that they are reminded constantly how filthy, wicked, and unworthy they are, simply because they were born, and their imaginary friend is always there to console them, make their lives worthwhile, and promise them an eternal reward, or an eternal punishment.

When they get to that point they believe that it is heresy and apostasy to question their religion, or even the denomination of their religion, and they totally shut off any outside influence.

And then it starts all over with the next generation.

It has 100% approval in the book:


Proverbs 22:6King James Version (KJV)

6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.


Yes, poor souls indeed.


*



 
Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: swampwalkerOriginally Posted By: tnshootist
I guess if you want to study something it would have to be other peoples beliefs. It would be hard to study nothing for very long.Not much to say about nothing.
I guess thats why you just talk about what other people believe.


As far as studying many religions? Yeah, why not? Why would anyone limit themselves to studying any one faith, just because it happened to be the first one handed to them as a child? Poor souls indeed.


Swampy,
it's because most of them are indoctrinated from the cradle by parents and religious authority figures.
They are fed a constant diet of that particular religious denomination.
By the time they are teens most of them manage to have that "holy spirit" experience that everybody around them has been waiting on.
After that they are reminded constantly how filthy, wicked, and unworthy they are, simply because they were born, and their imaginary friend is always there to console them, make their lives worthwhile, and promise them an eternal reward, or an eternal punishment.

When they get to that point they believe that it is heresy and apostasy to question their religion, or even the denomination of their religion, and they totally shut off any outside influence.

And then it starts all over with the next generation.

It has 100% approval in the book:


Proverbs 22:6King James Version (KJV)

6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.


Yes, poor souls indeed.


*





Not even close with my case FW. I cried out to Jesus when I was in rough shape and trying to get sober, 12 years ago.

I should also mention for the record, at that time, all of my other friends wouldn't talk to me. All but one. My Christian friend Tim. He was the only one that would continue to take my calls. And the day I got sober, he was the one who picked me up and took me to his house to recoup. Him, his wife and his two young children prayed over me that day, and fed me and let me sleep there. I was a walking dead man. Sober ever since.

So, with that being said, people on this site can knock Christians all they want, but I know what my Christian friend did for me that day. And because of those experiences, my faith is strong and will never be shaken. Although I will fall, one thing is for sure. I will continue to trust in my lord Jesus Christ. I know he saved my life that day.
 
Bad Dawg,
the experience of hitting rock bottom like you described seems to be a common theme in the “salvation” experience of many adults. Another one seems to be guilt that has accumulated for some reason.
I don’t think we should find fault with somebody doing what they feel like they need to do to cope with a hopeless situation.
If you believe that your choice has actually saved your life it doesn’t really matter to you if it’s superstition or fact.


And I think you probably know better than anybody else on here that there are many Christians in my life that I find no fault with.
grin.gif



*
 
Originally Posted By: tnshootistSorry.
Your assumptions couldn't be any farther from correct.


Not assumptions.....

Observations.
 
I will say that I've taken the time to get to know FW a little, and I hope he doesn't mind me saying so. We have been able to have some pretty in depth discussions about religion, faith, God or lack of faith. At no time did the discussion turn to insults, even though our beliefs differ tremendously.

And I would suggest this to others, whatever end of the spectrum you're at. Take the time to get to know someone, via phone, text or private message. And a reminder to myself as well as others, you never know what kind of experience someone has had with religion or without it. It could have been horrible or it could have been great.

It's Oct 1st tomorrow and it's cooling off in Michigan, finally! I know I sure am looking forward to chasing some yotes this season! Hope everyone else is as well!
 
Originally Posted By: tnshootistSorry.
Your assumptions couldn't be any farther from correct.

So tell us how old your children were when you told them that God had killed his only son.

How about your grandchildren ?

*
 
Originally Posted By: Bad DawgI will say that I've taken the time to get to know FW a little, and I hope he doesn't mind me saying so. We have been able to have some pretty in depth discussions about religion, faith, God or lack of faith. At no time did the discussion turn to insults, even though our beliefs differ tremendously.

And I would suggest this to others, whatever end of the spectrum you're at. Take the time to get to know someone, via phone, text or private message. And a reminder to myself as well as others, you never know what kind of experience someone has had with religion or without it. It could have been horrible or it could have been great.

It's Oct 1st tomorrow and it's cooling off in Michigan, finally! I know I sure am looking forward to chasing some yotes this season! Hope everyone else is as well!

Hey man!!
You’re about to ruin my dang reputation!!!


Or yours!!

grin.gif

 
I don't understand or pretend to have EVER followed the Bible. But, through what ever ways it works, Jesus is real, and the Holy Spirit/ God. It's real.

I'm not a very educated Christian, I grew up a Lutheran, confirmed a Lutheran... In my teens my church taught me nothing, I couldn't stand going to church. Sit, stand, repeat after me, sing this verse, etc. on and on. Church was the worst thing for my faith that has happened.

It took around a decade of me growing up and being without church for me to start REALLY understanding good from evil. It's real, and for whatever reason the thought of Christ completely destroys anything negative...

God never said anything about the Bible, Jesus never said anything about the Bible. The Bible is a 100% man made scripture created a few centuries after Jesus's death to try to control the Christian masses....

The Earth and people on it are the devil's playground. In my heart the man made Bible is nothing different... Just made to control the masses.

The Bible was put together by the "Elite" of the time to get all of the different Christian sects on the same page, so they could be more easily controlled. That's why the Bible was first in Latin(only the educated elite could read), and the first people that tried to translate the Bible to English so the masses could read "God's word" were executed.. BY THE CHURCH!!! The church is an evil corporation bent on control and money just like the rest of man's creations.

For me at least... Jesus Christ is real. The bible and church is man made.


 
Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: tnshootistSorry.
Your assumptions couldn't be any farther from correct.

So tell us how old your children were when you told them that God had killed his only son.

How about your grandchildren ?

*

Is that what it says in your Bible?
No wonder your so mixed up.
I guess you have found a verse that in your mind backs uo what you say.
Having an agenda or pouting because God didn't do what you told him to will enable a person to miss the point .

If a man is arrogant enough and thinks himself equal to God he is blind and spends his time shouting at the dark.
He finds blame with God instead of his own lack of understanding.

There are no independents or fence sitters in my opinion.I don't see how there could be.
A mans works are important but not the most important of things he should do.
I believe there are two forces at work here and now.
You can call it good and evil I guess but it's more than just earthly works.
A man is working for good or evil all the time whither he knows it or not.A man chooses sides whither he knows it or not.
A man is not always sure what is good.That is why he needs to ask for guidance.

Once the light in a mans head comes on understanding starts to come.
Life and death are the most complicated things a man will ever do.
As long as a man looks at it all through a straw he will not understand much about the big picture.

For example FW.
I expect you to twist my words to fit your agenda instead of trying to understand my probably poor attempt to explain a very large concept.

I have a good friend who was a preacher.He had a great influence on me.His kindness came into my life one day and I never forgot.Nothing changed for me right then but I could not forget that he went out of his way to help me when I was not very worthy in my mind.
Over time I noticed his example and the peace he had in life.
I went through many more struggles for some time but I never forgot how he just stopped and helped that one night.

Over time so many things happened that I could not deny any longer.
Tragedy has entered my life more times than I can hardly stand sometimes.
In my case tragedy has made me stronger.
Tragedy entered the life of my Preacher friend and it has destroyed him.He is still a hard working good man but he lost his faith. He is angry at God.
He don't understand. I don't understand either.
The tragic event is not going to be changed.
He is hurt and mad.
I am hurt and knowing I will understand sometime.

No matter how you look at it if you get mad at God all you can do is go around mad,waste time and be unhappy most of the time.

Bad things happen.Good is not the only force at work.
I don't understand everything but I think I will someday.
All I can do now is the best that I can and trust God for the rest.

Just as my earthly Father did not please me in what he did every time when I was small my Heavenly Father never said I would like everything He does.


Now FW you can come back with your sharp jabs and twist what I am trying to say but what does that gain you.
It does not do anything to me.

If a man picks out verses from the Bible and says look at this. Look what this says! Now I gotcha! Explain this in one sentence or less.
And if he is inclined to he can come to think of himself as smart.

If a man really finds his quite place and thinks not what does it say that I can pick apart but what does it mean with sincerity and no arrogance understanding will start to come.
To much to understand in this one life but maybe a man can get what he needs.
 
Originally Posted By: Rock KnockerI don't understand or pretend to have EVER followed the Bible. But, through what ever ways it works, Jesus is real, and the Holy Spirit/ God. It's real.

I'm not a very educated Christian, I grew up a Lutheran, confirmed a Lutheran... In my teens my church taught me nothing, I couldn't stand going to church. Sit, stand, repeat after me, sing this verse, etc. on and on. Church was the worst thing for my faith that has happened.

It took around a decade of me growing up and being without church for me to start REALLY understanding good from evil. It's real, and for whatever reason the thought of Christ completely destroys anything negative...

God never said anything about the Bible, Jesus never said anything about the Bible. The Bible is a 100% man made scripture created a few centuries after Jesus's death to try to control the Christian masses....

The Earth and people on it are the devil's playground. In my heart the man made Bible is nothing different... Just made to control the masses.

The Bible was put together by the "Elite" of the time to get all of the different Christian sects on the same page, so they could be more easily controlled. That's why the Bible was first in Latin(only the educated elite could read), and the first people that tried to translate the Bible to English so the masses could read "God's word" were executed.. BY THE CHURCH!!! The church is an evil corporation bent on control and money just like the rest of man's creations.

For me at least... Jesus Christ is real. The bible and church is man made.




Thanks for sharing your experience! That was very well put.

Recently, I've been considering leaving the church and not returning. The church has not done me any wrong in any way, and the people there have been more than helpful and courteous. I also see the value of the church when it comes to community. The church does a lot of good, imo. The church has my support 100%.

With that being said, I am slowly facing the fact that it just isn't for me. I feel like you mentioned in your post. Stand, sit, sing, throw money in the basket, look enthusiastic and repeat while growing tired of it. Besides of the relationship aspect, there truly is nothing I feel I can give the church that cannot be given outside of it.

I've also noticed that there has been a bit of anxiety coming into my life since I've started attending again that wasn't there before. I believe I know where this is coming from. I am not an extremist and have found many in the church to hold some pretty extreme views. I'm more of a grey area guy. It's as if the church almost subtly forces these views on you. Lastly, all these different denominations have their own interpretation. Why can I not have my own interpretation?

Thanks for sharing some of your knowledge about the history of the Bible. I'm going to read up on that a bit. I find that kind of stuff interesting.

Mike
 
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