Coyote Offseason???

hello, maybe we need a stand alone furom of some type in regards to self-imposed coyote seasons.& what real adc work is...i think the "old timers" are saying that the coyote numbers were much higher than now & factor in that coyote hunter numbers are on the rise there is probably reason for concern...without question a recreational hunter should leave them alone in springtime..to justify killing a spring coyote because your saving a deer is absurd..by the way i used to hunt springtime never killed one anyway,lousy time of year....i will hunt mid to late summer i realize not everbody agrees with that..i had a conversation last fall with a county sheriffs deputy in a rural county i mostly hunt in,i asked him about coyote hunters,he said there are not many hunters most coyotes are shot by guys driving around...i doubt these gentlemen have any regard to what time of year it is...the coyote is pressured year round.
 
Where I believe some of that "Good ol day" stuff, some of it is not all true.There are still great places to call and kill lots of coyotes.Yes, even in Nevada.LOL It is not difficult to see 30+ coyotes in a couple of days of hunting.And it is possible to rack up some numbers.FWIW Chad
 
Utahcaller:
I sure wish we still had those kinds of numbers here! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

When I started hunting coyotes in the early 70s, a fella could see 20+ coyotes a day. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Now, a "good" day is seeing 3-4 & a "great" day is seeing 6-7. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
And that's by hunting about 40 full days(s-up/s-down)between Nov/Feb; about 150 different pieces of property; encompassing about 175,000 acres. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

But I'm happy for you, that you can still find 30 coyotes in 2 days time! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif It must suck to be in your part of the country! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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I'm happy for you, that you can still find 30 coyotes in 2 days time!



If such "pockets" of abundance actually do still exist, their numbers can probably be counted on one hand. And the location of this bonanza spot is probably more closely guarded than the launch code for a DEFCON 5 nuclear strike!

But you see, in the "old days" seeing a dozen coyotes in a day was "no big deal". It was like that everywhere. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

(edit) "everywhere" being the western states.
 
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to justify killing a spring coyote because you're saving a deer is absurd? I'd kill a spring coyote to save a pheasant! *qb
And that is the height of ubsurdity.

But you see, in the "old days" seeing a dozen coyotes in a day was "no big deal". It was like that everywhere.

That is very true and we really didn't appreciate how good we had it. It was just the nature of the game.
There are still a lot of places that hold good densities and you can see a lot of coyotes at certain times of the year. As the season progresses and pressure mounts the sightings drop off considerably.
 
40 to 50 years ago in the good old days here in the southeast there were no coyotes. Today their numbers are increasing dramatically so the good old days of coyote hunting where I live are right now. The same can be said for turkey and deer hunting as the numbers are way up on these critters. Dove hunting is still good but not quite as good as yesteryear. Bass fishing has always been good here but where I fish it is better than I can remember in the past. However, at the same time that hunting is getting better the availablity of land to hunt on is not. Another factor is expense. Access to land can be expensive now where before it was free. For the predator hunter who keeps in good graces with the local land owners there is no expense. Not so for the turkey and deer hunters.
 
Made me giggle Rich.....christ, the LEAST worry a damned imported species like the pheasant has to worry about, is coyote depredation.
It all boils down to "wants and desires", and just because someone "can" kill a coyote in the summer? go figure.
I can think of no more sorry "trophy" than hunting a coyote in summer. Hot miserable weather, bugs,sweat, then that proud swelling in the chest, when a guy rolls that hairless, flea infested, lactating [beeep] over with the toe of his boot, spit dribblin' down his chin as he grins wide, and sneers,"yep, got another one by gawd,and no one can tell me any different,cause I can"!!....then off he rambles, stumbling to his truck, leaving the ole wet [beeep] to fester,bloat and wither away......and off to get another,man, thats huntin' aint it:)
 
One thing some fo the folks on here might be forgetting to mention is that in the big time game ranches, where some animals like whitetails can fetch as much as 15000, coyotes must be eliminated. I really dont like the idea of hunting in these "preserves" but a lot of people do, and in those situations the point is valid. But for the most of us, who have more deer and other game than ever, i dont think killing a yote for that reason is the best argument to use.
 
So it's comes down to the All Mighty Dollar?B.S! As far as nature is concerned that $15,000 dollar Whitetail isn't any better than the $20 dollar coyote.Good Hunting Chad
 
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rowney, I don't believe that gamefarm animals are inpacted by coyote predation. Numbers are relative to the bottom line with mature bucks being the moneymaker. Coyotes have no effect on mature buck numbers.
An informative study on coyote predation influence on whitetail numbers was conducted on a game ranch in Texas recently. 966 acres were fenced off with a "coyote proof" fence. After two years the deer numbers increased because of the increased fawn survival. Two more years and the population began decreasing due to disease, parasites and malnutrition. Does "compensatory mortality" come to mind?

With the exception of localized influences of coyote predation, carrying capacity is more of a limiting factor in today's atmosphere of wildlife management. At the turn of the 20th century Whitetail deer were almost extinct. Today there are an estimated 15 million of the little breeders. This occured during the dramatic increase in the coyotes range and population densities. How can this be?
More deer are killed by automobiles in Pa. each year than are killed by coyotes in all of the rest of the U.S. and still the numbers increase.
Turkey management repeats the same story. From the brink of extinction to high numbers in many states and huntable populations resulting in open seasons for the first time in many western states. All in the middle of traditional coyote ranges.
With the minor exception of very small isolated pockets, coyote predation is simply not a valid excuse for killing lactating b***** and causing the deaths of the puppies.
What is even more lame is professing to kill the coyotes during denning and whelping season because the coyotes kill other small game. GOD made the coyote to be an efficient predator and HE did a very good job of it. The coyote kills these animals to eat and to feed their families. They do not kill them for fun and pleasure, the main reason that these springtime hunters kill coyotes.
Id ten ts can debate the definition of "Ethical" forever but no reasoning man can ever consider the the killing of puppies and their mothers for fun to be ethical.
 
To the cattle and sheep ranchers it is all about money and killing coyote.
Seems nature did just fine before we got here. I'm sure the antelope and deer populations were doing great a thousand years ago. Now all the sudden the coyotes are eating everything in site, why is that?
Same thing with the damn wolf, how did they not eat all the elk, moose and deer in the Americas before we got here?


30 coyotes in two days? In the "GOOD OLD DAYS" you'd see 30 or more a night......Woops, no night hunting lol.
 
After reading many of the posts on this thread, I have noticed that the majority of you live and hunt in the western part of the country. Being from Northwest Ohio, coyotes were almost none existant hear. Not to say there were none, but 18 years ago no one saw coyotes! Most of us never encountered yotes till 5-6 years ago. Yes, they were here but not many. In the past 2 years I have seen alot! Some of our woods that were excellent rabbit and squirrel woods are no longer. Many of these woods I hunt, you are lucky to see 1 rabbit in an entire year. Squirrel hunting in most areas was an easy task to limit out in an hour. Now, 1 or 2 squirrel in a day if you are lucky. Everyone of these woods and surrounding areas are loaded with coyotes. It isn't uncommon to see or atleast hear em every trip to the woods. With small game and even domestic pets dissapearing in these areas, leads me to believe that the coyotes are responsible. Where some of you live and hunt, maybe you don't see these types of effects. Here we do. With that being said, I don't tend to go out and hunt coyotes in the spring and summer. Only because crops and cover is so grown up that it is nearly impossible to hunt them. But, if I am out groundhog hunting and see one I shoot. No one has to agree with this, but here versus the west are two different places. What many of you experienced 10 20 or 50 years ago is starting to happen here! I for one enjoy hunting small game and with little to no pressure on the coyote population in my part of the state, I will take one every chance I get. Maybe thats why Ohio has no closed season on coyotes. I speak with the game wardens on a regular basis and know for a fact that coyotes are having a considerable effect on bird and small game populations.
 
Interesting, POV.

Funny, a guy told me a couple yrs ago. His Dad killed the "1st coyote" in my county, back in 1957. I [thought] WOW!, your Dad must really be old![as in pre-white-man days], LOL. I bit my tongue /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

We started hunting Red's in 64. Didn't spot a coyote until Winter snowfly of 68. I have no doubts, they've been around my area, sooner than 1957.

As closest, as to what I've seen in my area. Is the [POP] tends to fluctuate >/< every 3 yrs. Regardless of weather patterns or killing pressure. Water seeks it's own level, eh /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Rich, I should have worded that a little better, cuz i agree with you. I was trying to point out that thats why people want yotes killed, but your right, i really dont think that yotes make a damn bit of difference to the population. However, i dont have that much invested in the animal at stake here. Chad, i understand your point, but in texas, whitetail hunting is something like a 500 million dollar business, so nature has taken a serious backseat. Is it right, most argue no, but its a fact of life as far as hunting in texas goes.
 
aj, I agree with KIrby. Rabbit, hare and many rodent populations are subject to the ebb and flow of epidemic cycles. Causative agents are usually tularemia and plague and the cycles are often seven years. That would account for high densities 5 or 6 years ago and low densities now. Research such as the northern Utah study state that predator densities are generally controlled by prey species populations rather than the reverse.
 
Last Fall, I started to count [out of curiosity]. [All] of the coyotes, that I spotted that yr. Wether just driving somewhere, or while out hunting. I counted somewhere around 46-47?.

Three yrs ago, I spotted 75? or 76? if I re-call correctly.
I believe, these flucuations. Are the result of many variables in the mix. Some of which I doubt, [Man] will ever figure out.
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I read on a bathroom wall, many moons ago;

"The last living creatures on Earth, will be Coyotes & Cockroach's" Author; unkown

go figure /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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I fully understand that rabbits and many other small game go in cycles. Something I have understood for awhile now. I also am aware that disease tends to kill more than predation ever will on the norm! However in many areas I hunt small game populations are low. Rabbits literally don't exist in about 4 different areas I hunt. Meanwhile rabbits and other small game are doing better than ever in other woods and areas that aren't as populated with coyotes. One area I hunt, consists of maybe 10 seperate woods divided by ag fields. This is probably a 4sq mile area. Early morning in my deer stand last winter I visually saw 8 coyotes and heard what sounded like 2 others. In that particular area there is no point in trying to rabbit hunt, they aren't there. Squirrel are also on the decline in that same 4 mile area. This isn't the only area that this is happening! Now, you can go other places that are loaded with squirrel and rabbit, but the coyote population in these areas is far less. I am a rookie coyote hunter by standards of PM. Many of you have been hunting twice as long as I am old and I respect your knowledge and experience. The only point I am trying to convey is that coyotes do effect small game in areas were they are heavily populated. It is no secret that gaining access to hunt isn't easy and many of the woods and fields that we used to hunt have been developed(housing and commercial)! So, with limited places to hunt, I can't just move else where to find small game. My only choice is to try and thin out some coyotes or hope that some of them move off to different areas. I don't know how many coyotes most of you take in a year. I only got 5 last year and my cousin got 1. One other coyote was taken by a group of deer hunters. This was all the coyotes taken throughout a large area of land. This is the reason I will shoot one when ever I see one! No body else hunts em and what few I kill isn't even started to put a dent in them. I can't expect anybody to agree, but we all have a different situation to deal with. Coyote hunting has been a staple of the west for ever. Here it isn't even an interest of probably 90% of hunters.
 
The first coyote sighting in Ohio was in 1919. The latest coyote census in Ohio suggested a population of 20 to 30 thousand. They have co-existed in many areas of the U.S. for long periods without the general public noticing because people who do not think in terms of coyotes dismiss them as farm dogs or stray dogs when they do see them. It is interesting that you believe that they have exerted a negative influence on your small game densities in only the last 4 or 5 years.
"Coyote hunting has been a staple of the west for ever."
This another misconception. Ask any of the pioneer call makers. I don't know but three that could support themselves with proceeds from any predator calling products twenty years ago.. During that period I lived in Ca., Utah, and Az. and I called in 8 of the neighboring states. Aside from club functions it was very unusual to encounter another caller while hunting anywhere in the west as recently as twenty years ago. I run into them or their sign every single weekend now. Ten years ago a friend of mine worked as a guide on three seperate game ranches in Texas. The managers wanted all the coyotes removed and I was welcome to call anytime on all of them. Today predators are regarded as momey makers just as the exotics are and I would have to pay to call on those ranches now.
 
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