CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: joekingOriginally Posted By: pyscodogjoeking-I believe you've been called out!! What say Ye??
really! Guys just lookin for an argument, notice he never really offered up anything usfull, just oh that wont work. I blocked him when i noticed it, no time for asses like that. I never saw where he called me out, but poppin of from behind a keyboard is pretty chicken IMO. If he had pair he'd have contacted me directly.
I really think it is because Joe King has a terminal case of "Yellow Sneakers"... he got caught in a lie, and now claims that he didn't see the call out to make his case.
Well, I got a pair, and I will PM him a copy of this too make sure he reads it.
The original poster, Psychodog, has a problem with cases that are too long and hard to chamber. The cases he has from a Encore are 0.005 to 0.016 too long at the shoulder. The gun and "those cases" have negative headspace - i.e., the head to shoulder length of the case is longer than the head to shoulder length of the rifle's chamber.
Joe King says...
Originally Posted By: joeking
"or you can give these a whirl"
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-eq...-prod39926.aspx "
The link is to Redding's "Comp shell holders".
I made a few replies to Psychopuppy, and then I answered Joe King's post with...
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: joeking
or you can give these a whirl
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-eq...-prod39926.aspx
Those will make the problem worse.
To which, Joe King replied...
Originally Posted By: joekingOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: joeking
or you can give these a whirl
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-eq...-prod39926.aspx
Those will make the problem worse.
How do you figure that? They certainly won't cause the case to be sized less.
At this point, I know that Joe King hasn't got the slightest idea about what he is talking about. Unlike Joe King, I actually own four sets of these shell holders (222 head, '06 head, .220 Swift head, and PPC head)
He is doing what a lot of guys on the web do - he read something in a catalogue, he "thinks" he knows how it works, and then he goes around telling other people how to solve their problem with this thing he saw in a catalogue...
...he lied!!
So I replied...
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: joekingOriginally Posted By: CatShooter
Those will make the problem worse.
How do you figure that? They certainly won't cause the case to be sized less.
You should NEVER recommend loading tools that you haven't used.
You should NEVER recommend loading tools that you know nothing about.
These shell holders WILL cause the cases to be sized less.
These shell holders WILL cause the case head to shoulder length to get longer.
Then I replied to EJ...
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: EJ Reichenbach
Wish I had these last week I had a hornady die that was to long and it wasnt even makin contact with the shoulder, I had to grind a shellholder down to make it work, but then the shellholder was way to thin, so I sh!t canned the whole thing and bought a new set of rcbs dies
They would not have helped. They effectively make the sizing longer, not shorter.
(Never grind shell holders)
Then Joe King posts...
Originally Posted By: joekingagain how do you know this? do you have them on your bench? I do, i have 2 rifles with custom chambers, without those tools i would have a very hard time closing my bolt on either rifle. I also have die sets that cost me over 250 each. So please explain to me how it is you know what is on my reloading bench and what i use, while your at it would you mind telling me what load i used in my 7mag this year.
I'm not sure what the "again" means, since it was a first request, but none the less - he asks how I know this? Well, Duh, I own four sets of them (a total of 20 shell holders).
He asks if I have them on my bench? (Duh, yes!)
Then he claims that he has them. And he claims he has die sets that cost over $250 (big deal - price out a set of five 50-BMG match dies sometime if you want sticker shock).
At this point, Joe King has proved he is a liar, and knows nothing about this stuff.
So I called him out!
I reply...
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: joekingagain how do you know this? do you have them on your bench? I do, i have 2 rifles with custom chambers, without those tools i would have a very hard time closing my bolt on either rifle. I also have die sets that cost me over 250 each. So please explain to me how it is you know what is on my reloading bench and what i use, while your at it would you mind telling me what load i used in my 7mag this year.
You have a case that is a few thou longer than your "custom" chamber, and it is hard to close the bolt using a standard shell holder - but these comp shell holders make it possible to easily close the bolt??
How do these shell holders make it possible to easily close the bolt?
You're a liar. It is that simple!
Go down to your loading bench, and write down the markings on the comp shell holders - then come back and post them here, and explain what they mean, and how they make it possible to chamber cases that would otherwise be hard to chamber.
Or, put it another way, you have a case that when sized with a standard shell holder, has a measurement to the datum line of 2.000"... What would the measurements be with each of the five comp shell holders?? How do these shell holders make your cases shorter?
I triple dare you.
You have been called.
Now, if I were Joe King, and I was telling the truth, I would have LOVED this challenge... cuz it would take 5 minuted to make my protagonist (CatShooter) look like a flippin' idiot...
... but all we get is silence from this shell holder expert.
Then, after a long silence, he posts...
Originally Posted By: joekingOriginally Posted By: pyscodogjoeking-I believe you've been called out!! What say Ye??
really! Guys just lookin for an argument, notice he never really offered up anything usfull, just oh that wont work. I blocked him when i noticed it, no time for asses like that. I never saw where he called me out, but poppin of from behind a keyboard is pretty chicken IMO. If he had pair he'd have contacted me directly.
Yeah, right!
So, here is why Joe King is hiding in the celler.
The Redding Comp shell holders come in sets of 5 and they are ALL longer than the standard.
The excepted standard depth for shell holders is 0.125", +/- 0.0005 (a half of a thou)... that is why you can use a RCBS shell holder with a set of Redding, Hornady, CH4D, and anyone elses dies - cuz they ALL agree to make the shell holders the same size.
If you make shell holders LESS than 0.125", then the case will size shorter, and you will increase headspace - now, sometimes you want to make the case shorter - like with Psychopuppy's 7mm (or my new 22-250) when even after FL sizing, the case is still longer than the chamber...but NO DIE MAKER MAKES A SHELL HOLDER THAT IS SHORTER THAN 0.125".
Now... the Comp shell holders are deeper than standard - they are marked +.002", +.004", +.006", +.008", and +.010"... and so each shell holder makes the case longer than normal - and if you have cases that are too long to start with, when sizing with a 0.125" shell holder, the Comp shell holders will make it worse, which is exactly what I said.
The problem with widdle Joe King is that he read the ad on Sinclairintl, but did not understand it. It reads...
"Redding’s five piece shellholder set is designed so you can adjust your headspace by selecting the appropriate thickness Redding shellholder. The five shellholders are +.002", +.004", +.006", +.008", and +.010" thicker than normal shellholders (.125" from the bottom of the case head cut to the top of the shellholder). Each shellholder is clearly marked and has a black oxide finish to distinguish them from normal shell holders."
But since he doesn't own these shell holders, he didn't understand that when Redding said you can adjust the headspace, you can only make the cases longer than normal, not shorter.
So Joe King went and hid in the cellar like a bottom feeding, scum sucking piece of lying trash (ask me how I feel about liars sometime).
If Joe King did have a set of these shell holders, and he was right, it would have taken 5 minutes to make me look like an idiot.
I will PM him a copy of this.
It is a shame what is happening to this site - there used ot be a lot of good threads that passed good information and experiences back and forth - but it has degenerated into one food fight after another.
... I was going to send him a copy of this, but he has blocked me, so that is that.
A brave little boy.
.
really! Guys just lookin for an argument, notice he never really offered up anything usfull, just oh that wont work. I blocked him when i noticed it, no time for asses like that. I never saw where he called me out, but poppin of from behind a keyboard is pretty chicken IMO. If he had pair he'd have contacted me directly.
I really think it is because Joe King has a terminal case of "Yellow Sneakers"... he got caught in a lie, and now claims that he didn't see the call out to make his case.
Well, I got a pair, and I will PM him a copy of this too make sure he reads it.
The original poster, Psychodog, has a problem with cases that are too long and hard to chamber. The cases he has from a Encore are 0.005 to 0.016 too long at the shoulder. The gun and "those cases" have negative headspace - i.e., the head to shoulder length of the case is longer than the head to shoulder length of the rifle's chamber.
Joe King says...
Originally Posted By: joeking
"or you can give these a whirl"
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-eq...-prod39926.aspx "
The link is to Redding's "Comp shell holders".
I made a few replies to Psychopuppy, and then I answered Joe King's post with...
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: joeking
or you can give these a whirl
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-eq...-prod39926.aspx
Those will make the problem worse.
To which, Joe King replied...
Originally Posted By: joekingOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: joeking
or you can give these a whirl
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-eq...-prod39926.aspx
Those will make the problem worse.
How do you figure that? They certainly won't cause the case to be sized less.
At this point, I know that Joe King hasn't got the slightest idea about what he is talking about. Unlike Joe King, I actually own four sets of these shell holders (222 head, '06 head, .220 Swift head, and PPC head)
He is doing what a lot of guys on the web do - he read something in a catalogue, he "thinks" he knows how it works, and then he goes around telling other people how to solve their problem with this thing he saw in a catalogue...
...he lied!!
So I replied...
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: joekingOriginally Posted By: CatShooter
Those will make the problem worse.
How do you figure that? They certainly won't cause the case to be sized less.
You should NEVER recommend loading tools that you haven't used.
You should NEVER recommend loading tools that you know nothing about.
These shell holders WILL cause the cases to be sized less.
These shell holders WILL cause the case head to shoulder length to get longer.
Then I replied to EJ...
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: EJ Reichenbach
Wish I had these last week I had a hornady die that was to long and it wasnt even makin contact with the shoulder, I had to grind a shellholder down to make it work, but then the shellholder was way to thin, so I sh!t canned the whole thing and bought a new set of rcbs dies
They would not have helped. They effectively make the sizing longer, not shorter.
(Never grind shell holders)
Then Joe King posts...
Originally Posted By: joekingagain how do you know this? do you have them on your bench? I do, i have 2 rifles with custom chambers, without those tools i would have a very hard time closing my bolt on either rifle. I also have die sets that cost me over 250 each. So please explain to me how it is you know what is on my reloading bench and what i use, while your at it would you mind telling me what load i used in my 7mag this year.
I'm not sure what the "again" means, since it was a first request, but none the less - he asks how I know this? Well, Duh, I own four sets of them (a total of 20 shell holders).
He asks if I have them on my bench? (Duh, yes!)
Then he claims that he has them. And he claims he has die sets that cost over $250 (big deal - price out a set of five 50-BMG match dies sometime if you want sticker shock).
At this point, Joe King has proved he is a liar, and knows nothing about this stuff.
So I called him out!
I reply...
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: joekingagain how do you know this? do you have them on your bench? I do, i have 2 rifles with custom chambers, without those tools i would have a very hard time closing my bolt on either rifle. I also have die sets that cost me over 250 each. So please explain to me how it is you know what is on my reloading bench and what i use, while your at it would you mind telling me what load i used in my 7mag this year.
You have a case that is a few thou longer than your "custom" chamber, and it is hard to close the bolt using a standard shell holder - but these comp shell holders make it possible to easily close the bolt??
How do these shell holders make it possible to easily close the bolt?
You're a liar. It is that simple!
Go down to your loading bench, and write down the markings on the comp shell holders - then come back and post them here, and explain what they mean, and how they make it possible to chamber cases that would otherwise be hard to chamber.
Or, put it another way, you have a case that when sized with a standard shell holder, has a measurement to the datum line of 2.000"... What would the measurements be with each of the five comp shell holders?? How do these shell holders make your cases shorter?
I triple dare you.
You have been called.
Now, if I were Joe King, and I was telling the truth, I would have LOVED this challenge... cuz it would take 5 minuted to make my protagonist (CatShooter) look like a flippin' idiot...
... but all we get is silence from this shell holder expert.
Then, after a long silence, he posts...
Originally Posted By: joekingOriginally Posted By: pyscodogjoeking-I believe you've been called out!! What say Ye??
really! Guys just lookin for an argument, notice he never really offered up anything usfull, just oh that wont work. I blocked him when i noticed it, no time for asses like that. I never saw where he called me out, but poppin of from behind a keyboard is pretty chicken IMO. If he had pair he'd have contacted me directly.
Yeah, right!
So, here is why Joe King is hiding in the celler.
The Redding Comp shell holders come in sets of 5 and they are ALL longer than the standard.
The excepted standard depth for shell holders is 0.125", +/- 0.0005 (a half of a thou)... that is why you can use a RCBS shell holder with a set of Redding, Hornady, CH4D, and anyone elses dies - cuz they ALL agree to make the shell holders the same size.
If you make shell holders LESS than 0.125", then the case will size shorter, and you will increase headspace - now, sometimes you want to make the case shorter - like with Psychopuppy's 7mm (or my new 22-250) when even after FL sizing, the case is still longer than the chamber...but NO DIE MAKER MAKES A SHELL HOLDER THAT IS SHORTER THAN 0.125".
Now... the Comp shell holders are deeper than standard - they are marked +.002", +.004", +.006", +.008", and +.010"... and so each shell holder makes the case longer than normal - and if you have cases that are too long to start with, when sizing with a 0.125" shell holder, the Comp shell holders will make it worse, which is exactly what I said.
The problem with widdle Joe King is that he read the ad on Sinclairintl, but did not understand it. It reads...
"Redding’s five piece shellholder set is designed so you can adjust your headspace by selecting the appropriate thickness Redding shellholder. The five shellholders are +.002", +.004", +.006", +.008", and +.010" thicker than normal shellholders (.125" from the bottom of the case head cut to the top of the shellholder). Each shellholder is clearly marked and has a black oxide finish to distinguish them from normal shell holders."
But since he doesn't own these shell holders, he didn't understand that when Redding said you can adjust the headspace, you can only make the cases longer than normal, not shorter.
So Joe King went and hid in the cellar like a bottom feeding, scum sucking piece of lying trash (ask me how I feel about liars sometime).
If Joe King did have a set of these shell holders, and he was right, it would have taken 5 minutes to make me look like an idiot.
I will PM him a copy of this.
It is a shame what is happening to this site - there used ot be a lot of good threads that passed good information and experiences back and forth - but it has degenerated into one food fight after another.
... I was going to send him a copy of this, but he has blocked me, so that is that.
A brave little boy.
.