Are PM's advertising rules B.S?

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What if we just gave each Paying HOB a sticky at the top of the fourm where they could advertise their calls. One sticky per HOB Advertiser. This would be the place where the HOB Advertiser would conduct his business by posting pictures and get feedback from forum members. Anyone who is not interested in buying calls would simply have to scroll down a bit to get to the other post in the forum.

Don't allow advertising in general post in the forum. Hob Advertisers could put a link in thier signatures to their Sticky at the top of the forum, but have all business conducted in the individual HOB Advertisers sticky thread.



Short of making a whole new forum for HOB call makers, that is the best solution I have heard yet. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
This was my response in the other thread:

I wish there was money for us to make out of this site. I've put enough hrs into this place to solve several problem of mine, if I could bill for them.

I know that the rules we have are problematic. There is some controversy, some misunderstanings, etc, as a result. But I haven't come up with a better suggestion just yet.

We have to have our paid advertizers to pay the bills for this place, or it goes away. That's the bottom line fact of the matter. So the question of fairness has to come into play. We can't ask people to pay for the right to simply allow others to conduct business for free, so we have to have something in place to guide us in handling situations. I'm sure some people, who are not making anything from their calls, get caught up in this. As Jim said, our problem is that we have no way to ID them. We have had some flat out lie to us, tell us they didn't sell calls, when we had solid proof that they were pretty busy at it.

The next guy may be telling us the truth, but how do we know?

It's an imperfect solution to a messy problem. Anyone has ideas on a better way to handle it, send us an email or PM. We'll at least consider it.
 
riverswild,
I'm afraid that I was not clear enough in the post you quote. Rooster was never a paid advertiser that I know of. Rooster only posted one photo of a couple of calls that he made for himself, and it was clear that he had no intention of selling calls.

It was R.G. that was once a paid up advertiser and decided to go out of business. It was R.G. who bought a new lathe and posted evidence that he was back in business again. I just felt obligated to clear that little issue up a little bit for you. I hope this information helps you understand that there is nothing wrong with posting a photo of a new call that you made for yourself. It is when it becomes obvious that a member is either already selling calls, or is gearing up to sell calls that it begins to be a violation of the TOS.
 
I said I was thru posting, but since its here and a new part was brought in I have to. I was never a paid up advertiser!!!!!!! I know I'm 71 and a bit soft- but nooooooo. It was decided that since AllPredatorcalls were selling my calls and they are advertisers- then it was ok. In first post that set this off, I said I was getting setup, giving away calls, ect, Cronk said ___ I was a bit put out but went right to my own post and eliminated the pictures of multiple calls. That should have done it, BUT I then replied to ad offering woods, I wish I had PM Rick, but thought it was perfectly ok to show him call, he asked for address so I posted that. This was the part that really irratated me - to be called down publicly when I had done no wrong,, I feel your own rules did not state a person could not post a single picture . Wish it would all go away, but still think Cronk and Board should just say it wasn't wrong to post picture of call offering to swap for wood.
Richard Grantham
 
I am curious how post # 52146191 by Rich has magically appeared after everything last night. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif Had that post been there then, I would have never asked over and over for an explanation.

If it was ok for Rooster to send you a PM asking to post his picture, then why was it not ok for you to PM Richard saying he and Rick needed to handle this differently and in private? Its not the rules that I have had a problem with, it was the way this was all handled in public by Rich.

I do have one more question for the PM administration..........if there are rules in place do those rules also apply to moderators?

I thought it was funny /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif that I was kicked off PM last night for flaming Rich, only after he flamed TomTalker. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif If its good enough for the members then it should be good enough for the moderators.
 
Riverwild, hope you read entire posts, I was NOT a previous paid up advertiser, never was. What does new lathe and setup have to do with anything ?? Guess under that thought,if I bought an old lathe and wasn't setup the way I wanted to be- then it would have been ok???
Richard Grantham
 
captb,

It's exactly post like yours above that won't be tolerated. If all you want to do is fan the flames, go elsewhere to do it.

Our patience is wearing thin here. If you have nothing constructive to say, then butt out.

Randy
 
To answer the posted question-no, I don't think so. Now I will throw in my dollars worth. As I have stated before, I believe the moderators have and are doing a wonderful job. Maybe all concerned might stop, sit back and think about where all this wrangling is going. Please don't forget the old saying, "united we stand, divided we fall". None of us are going to agree on everything, so let's acknowledge that fact and get on with what this website is all about. We have enough trouble with the anti's, so lets go after them and not each other. All the calls in the world aren't worth the division. Believe me, I care about our "family" here and I do not want to see anything happen to it. Thanks for listening.
 
Randy,

He has some legit questions and instead of being addressed its being skirted?

Wouldn't it be better to just answer the questions. I have noticed a few that went un aswered or ignored altogether that refered to moderators.

"Our patience is wearing thin here. If you have nothing constructive to say, then butt out."

That aint much different in the flaming department to me.


Todd
 
Todd,

They may be legit and if he writes to me, I may answer them. This thread is NOT to attempt to alienate people and cause trouble. We are looking for suggestions as to working this problem. As stated before, the mods here attempt to be as fair as possible. And, we have 23 members with various viewpoints in the mods forum and all of this gets discussed. Those 23 people make for good checks and balances. We try to be as fair as possible but we obviously can't please everyone all the time.

No, he may or may not have legit questions. That's not the point of this thread and will not be tolerated on this thread. So, like I said, he can either be constructive, stay on topic or butt out. If that's flaming, then I just flamed him. I like to think of it as a flat out warning.

Randy
 
This is from greg223and I think it bears repeating:

" Now I will throw in my dollars worth. As I have stated before, I believe the moderators have and are doing a wonderful job. Maybe all concerned might stop, sit back and think about where all this wrangling is going. Please don't forget the old saying, "united we stand, divided we fall". None of us are going to agree on everything, so let's acknowledge that fact and get on with what this website is all about. We have enough trouble with the anti's, so lets go after them and not each other. All the calls in the world aren't worth the division. Believe me, I care about our "family" here and I do not want to see anything happen to it. Thanks for listening."
I think the above pertains to probably 98% of the members.
That's the problem.No one is listening but a few are intent with proving that someone did someone wrong.Hey its like this,I personally would like to see a few problems dealt with as Moose has said in a Private message if possible.But the main thing is lets give the group of call makers a chance to brainstorm this thing and come up with a better way to do business.And really the handcall forum has become a business,albeit a small one for most guys.Every single guy I have bought a call off in the hand call forum is some one who you would love to have as a hunting partner and friend.

Even though this has been painful,maybe some good will come out of it.In as,as black and white as the posted rules are to most,to some there was still a large grey area and that's perhaps what needs to be dealt with.

I think the problem is that richard g.knows in his heart what he was meaning to do and so he was hurt by the public dressing down he got.Richard,if you are able, remember to forgive and forget will make you a taller man than you already are.You are held in high esteem here by many people and for you to leave would leave a large void.

Rich C. You Sir already know that I think your doing as good a job as possible.I'll say here what I've said to you and that is for you to take care of yourself,you mean a lot to a lot of the members here.Your decision as they have come down are just that,your decision as the moderator on what flies in the forum according to the rules that have been laid out.And for you to take your time amidst the consideration of your health,you have all my respect in the world for stepping up to the job.

Even though there are issues that I haven't agreed with how it was handled by a moderator,let me say this real clear.I have privately PM'd them to talk about it,I have chosen not to make this board my personal battleground, but to try to inject some positive thoughts and ideas to help not hurt.

Sorry for being so long winded,but issues like this aren't easily dismissed with a word or two.take care,daveyboy
 
Richard Grantham,
After reading your responce to my above post, I had prostaff and moderators revisit your case. It seems that you were HALF right. You never did pay the Hobby call maker dues. Problem is, you never really had official permission to advertise either. Consensus at this point is that you sweet talked us out of some free advertising for a short time and then was cut off when we figured out your little game. For a little added information, I didn't ask for a ban on your posting privileges. I only asked for a 30 day suspension.
 
captkb,
There is nothing in the rules that says a moderator must do his moderating in a private message. The Terms of service rules are right there in public for everyone to see. When a violation takes place in one of my forums, it takes place in public. I do my moderating right on the public forum for all to see. I do my job the best that I can, and no I am not perfect.
 
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captkb,
There is nothing in the rules that says a moderator must do his moderating in a private message. The Terms of service rules are right there in public for everyone to see. When a violation takes place in one of my forums, it takes place in public. I do my moderating right on the public forum for all to see. I do my job the best that I can, and no I am not perfect.



And therein lies the problem, Rich. Is there some reason why the violation can't be discussed privately? I think you would find that more often than not, that it was a misunderstanding of the rules. And if you find out that it was flagrant, what difference does it make? Handling the matter privately still resolves the problem and keeps the emotions and misunderstandings of the general membership out of it. This is not the judicial system. The public does not need to see someone burned at the stake to convince them to not commit the same infraction. Nothing at all is lost handling these matters privately and there is so much to be gained.

Rich, I appreciate all you do as a moderator. I don't have a problem with what you do, just how you do it sometimes. I for one don't want you to leave. You have been and can continue to be an asset to PM and those who visit here. All I ask is a little diplomacy. We all can benefit from it.

If I have offended you in any way, it has not been intentional. If I misunderstand where you are coming from, please, feel free to email or pm me and we can discuss this further. A little compromise by all here might go a long way.

Paul
 
The last time I read anything concerning PM and the LBL, it was PM saying that the LBL was a private event, not really backed by PM. Has this changed?

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Both require much more money then you could possibly imagine, and we would like to be able to offer more then the LBL, and the Globe hunts to you each year. In time we will!


 
I have just got off the phone with Brent Saxton (Kee) this morning, and I want to say Brent is a first class guy. Brent has a plan in the works that addresses the issues that have been mentioned. I'm personally excited to see the new changes being brought about, and give Brent my 100% support, and thanks for his efforts.
Keep up the outstanding work, Ridge
 
Thats great to Ridge.

Brent call me last night, but we got interrupted. I'm waiting to here what he has proposed, today....


Tony
 
I also talked to Brent last night. I know he has spent a lot of time on this and I appreciate the chance to add some of my thoughts. It was also good just to chat since we haven't had a chance since the PM hunt. I think some of the ideas that have been generated will help improve PM and keep us moving forward. Thanks Brent.

Paul
 
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