Abortion----Politics

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Not true actually the pill aborts the fertilized start of a human life.Just common scense will tell you by the morning after, the egg has already been fertilized and started a human life.


It’s a lot more complicated than that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovulation
How much detail do you want me to go into?
Fertilization doesn’t happen until the egg is ready which can be as much as 3 mornings after.
 
"Just common scense will tell you by the morning after, the egg has already been fertilized and started a human life."

You might want to re-think that statement. The egg isn't just up there all the time waiting around for the sperm. It is in fact possible for the egg to be released after the act and still get pregnant more than 48 or even 72 hours hours after.

A little off the subject. Sorry.
 
Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life, NO ONE comes to the father except through ME"...he never said "and if you confess to a priest in a church". He told the thief on the cross beside him "today you will be with me in paradise". Something tells me that nobody took the thief down from his cross so that he could make an appearence in a closet and confess his sins to another mortal man, or to do any of the other things that many Christians(not only the Catholics)think you have to do to be saved, such as go to church, be baptised, take communion, spread the word, tithe, help those that are less fortunate, etc,etc,etc. Jesus did say to do certain things as acts of obedience,that they pleased God, but none of those were pre-requisites for salvation.

It's not my intention to offend anybody(Catholic or otherwise)with this, but in the Bible that I read(NIV right at the moment), nothing can add to God's plan for salvation...the only thing you can do is confess your sinful nature and your need for Christ to God himself(not anybody else)and to truly believe in Christ's sacrifice and accept it as payment in full for your sin-debt to God.
 
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Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life, NO ONE comes to the father except through ME"...he never said "and if you confess to a priest in a church". He told the thief on the cross beside him "today you will be with me in paradise". Something tells me that nobody took the thief down from his cross so that he could make an appearence in a closet and confess his sins to another mortal man, or to do any of the other things that many Christians(not only the Catholics)think you have to do to be saved, such as go to church, be baptised, take communion, spread the word, tithe, help those that are less fortunate, etc,etc,etc. Jesus did say to do certain things as acts of obedience,that they pleased God, but none of those were pre-requisites for salvation.

It's not my intention to offend anybody(Catholic or otherwise)with this, but in the Bible that I read(NIV right at the moment), nothing can add to God's plan for salvation...the only thing you can do is confess your sinful nature and your need for Christ to God himself(not anybody else)and to truly believe in Christ's sacrifice and accept it as payment in full for your sin-debt to God.




Good post Bdawg. Look guys, I'm with you and Redeyedawg that no one has to intercede for me with the Holy Father except his Son, Jesus Christ, However I don't think we are going to accomplish anything fighting with BruceT over how it is to be done. He is not going to change his belief and I am not and you are not. I think the thing to remember here is that we all believe in the saving grace of a wonderful Savior. And that ...Whosoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. While I think I have it figured out, I'm sure that no Christian church has a every detail figured out. I know this because we are all men and we fail. I just think we should be careful when believers fight about the details of how to instead of sharing the news and setting an example for nonbelievers.

Just my 2 cents. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
BruceT I have a question. What happens to the babies sole when it dies (is aborted)? I believe until recently it sat in purgatory according to your religion. This is my problem with organized religion not just yours it changes with the wind (money). If our belief is costing us parishioners (money) we will change it. And for the record on the issue of abortion I think is sick and wrong except in the case of rape or true risk of death to the mother. Who ever came up with the partial birth abortion should have one perform on them.
 
So basically we can all agree on these rules. GUYS, Keep it in your pants. Girls keep your pants on. Parents, make sure you know what your kids are doing...and that their pants are on. BAM, no more baby killing.
 
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So basically we can all agree on these rules. GUYS, Keep it in your pants. Girls keep your pants on. Parents, make sure you know what your kids are doing...and that their pants are on. BAM, no more baby killing.



Yeah, that works. Until that happens, abortion is the slaughter of the most innocent of human lives. It is indefensible, has always been wrong and will always be wrong.
 
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....I just think we should be careful when believers fight about the details of how to instead of sharing the news and setting an example for nonbelievers.

Just my 2 cents. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif



Good point Totch...that was something that needed to be said, no doubt about it...glad somebody did. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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So basically we can all agree on these rules. GUYS, Keep it in your pants. Girls keep your pants on. Parents, make sure you know what your kids are doing...and that their pants are on. BAM, no more baby killing.



Yeah, that works. Until that happens, abortion is the slaughter of the most innocent of human lives. It is indefensible, has always been wrong and will always be wrong.



Yes sir you are correct.
 
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....I just think we should be careful when believers fight about the details of how to instead of sharing the news and setting an example for nonbelievers.

Just my 2 cents. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif



Good point Totch...that was something that needed to be said, no doubt about it...glad somebody did. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif



+1
 
Abortion is not birth control, birth control is used before the fact, however it may be seen as population control.
Birth control is cheap, readily available, and you would be hard pressed to make me believe that most kids over the age of twelve doesn’t know how conception takes place, the main stream media has seen to this. What has changed is the fact that that a pregnancy out of wedlock is seen as a normal consequence of life today not to mention that in some areas it is almost considered a badge of honor, and no longer carries the stigma that was attached to it only forty or so years ago.
The main stream media and the left has sold the US public on the need for abortion to help curb the exploding population of this country.
The fact remains that they have also pushed the need for us to help support the growing wave of immigrants wanting to come to this country and the plight of the illegal's that are already here. The vast majority of abortions are preformed on US citizens and for the most part is shunned as religiously unacceptable by most immigrants, I wonder why this is?
 
I've noticed the word "rape" several times in this discussion, and thought I'd add this link to show you my perspective on it and add a picture of the person who the article is written about.....


Born by Rape, Allowed to Live

IMG_0198_edited-1.jpg


You don't have to ask me which side of the fence I stand on!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Take care and God Bless,

Rusty
 
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I've noticed the word "rape" several times in this discussion, and thought I'd add this link to show you my perspective on it and add a picture of the person who the article is written about.....


Born by Rape, Allowed to Live

IMG_0198_edited-1.jpg


You don't have to ask me which side of the fence I stand on!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Take care and God Bless,

Rusty




WOW!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif This says it ALL!!!

THANK YOU RUSTY!
 
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I've noticed the word "rape" several times in this discussion, and thought I'd add this link to show you my perspective on it and add a picture of the person who the article is written about.....


Born by Rape, Allowed to Live

IMG_0198_edited-1.jpg


You don't have to ask me which side of the fence I stand on!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Take care and God Bless,

Rusty




WOW!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif This says it ALL!!!

THANK YOU RUSTY!


I rest my case. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
She's just another Christian that opposes rape because of her religious views, which gives her no credibility. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Thanks for posting that Rusty.

Forgive me Rusty. I went to public school and didn't realize the post was about YOUR Mrs. Holt until I saw Greg's post. That's a special lady. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

So, yip and Rimmy, you gonna tell us it would have been okay if Rusty's wife was aborted? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
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I've noticed the word "rape" several times in this discussion, and thought I'd add this link to show you my perspective on it and add a picture of the person who the article is written about.....


Born by Rape, Allowed to Live

IMG_0198_edited-1.jpg


You don't have to ask me which side of the fence I stand on!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Take care and God Bless,

Rusty



Outstanding testimony, God has blessed you both with a tremendous gift, very, very special /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
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Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life, NO ONE comes to the father except through ME"...he never said "and if you confess to a priest in a church". He told the thief on the cross beside him "today you will be with me in paradise". Something tells me that nobody took the thief down from his cross so that he could make an appearence in a closet and confess his sins to another mortal man, or to do any of the other things that many Christians(not only the Catholics)think you have to do to be saved, such as go to church, be baptised, take communion, spread the word, tithe, help those that are less fortunate, etc,etc,etc. Jesus did say to do certain things as acts of obedience,that they pleased God, but none of those were pre-requisites for salvation.


It's not my intention to offend anybody(Catholic or otherwise)with this, but in the Bible that I read(NIV right at the moment), nothing can add to God's plan for salvation...the only thing you can do is confess your sinful nature and your need for Christ to God himself(not anybody else)and to truly believe in Christ's sacrifice and accept it as payment in full for your sin-debt to God.


Then why is this stated in the church started by Jesus himself?
 
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BruceT I have a question. What happens to the babies sole when it dies (is aborted)? I believe until recently it sat in purgatory according to your religion. This is my problem with organized religion not just yours it changes with the wind (money). If our belief is costing us parishioners (money) we will change it. And for the record on the issue of abortion I think is sick and wrong except in the case of rape or true risk of death to the mother. Who ever came up with the partial birth abortion should have one perform on them.


As far as I know he or she goes straight to heaven because there is no original sin involved.My religion has not changed and never will change as it is the one started by Jesus and it clearly states not one word can be changed.As far as rape why tramatize the poor woman twice.First being the rape, second the abortion?
 
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I dont really understand why abortion is ALWAYS a topic during the election(i dont recall it ever coming up in the 7 year riegn dictator bush). You wont hear about it untill 4 years down the road, and i for one think there are a lot more important issuses to be discussed. Personally i dont believe in it, but i dont have the right to tell other people what is right or wrong. We are supposed to be living in a free country, and if they can live with that descision so be it.



Respectfully, here is my answer as to why... A few other nations have laws against, or severely restricting the availability of abortion on demand. Others don't. But one of the unifying themes in both sets of countries - the U.S. excluded - is that the citizens of those nations were given the opportunity to vote on the issue. In those nations where abortion is illegal - Ireland, for instance - they voted in majority not to have abortion allowed. The side that lost the election moved on because the people had spoken. Similarly, in other nations where abortion is legal - France, for instance, the pro-abortion side won the referendum. Again, the people had spoken, and the right to life crowd was able to accept it. (Here is a link to the worlds current abortion law status as of 2007.)

In the U.S., the right to abortion (in the first trimester only, incidentally) was decided by the Supreme Court on a national level (based on the existence of "penumbras and emmanations" which are not in the text of the Constitution, for you constitutional purists), and the people as a nation were never given a chance to vote on the issue (through their representation). In fact, at the time of Roe, it was judged to be a states' rights issue. At the time of Roe v. Wade, abortion was already legal in a number of states. The Roe decision immediately struck down existing abortion laws in those states where it was still restricted, even though those laws expressed the will of the people in those states. Roe even prevented Congress from rendering a national decision reflecting the will of the whole people. Consequently, it has remained a contentious issue. The blame for this lies squarely at the feet of the Blackmun court, which VASTLY overstepped its bounds.

This is one of the reasons that defeating the Dems in the presidential election is so important. It is critical that we have a president who will appoint strict constructionists to the bench, or at least as close to that as we can get. If the court overturns Roe, all that will happen is that the right to decide the legality of abortion on demand will be remanded to the several states, where it belongs. Those states that had already legalized abortion at the time of Roe, California, for instance, will continue to allow abortion on demand. Those states where it was not specifically permitted by law will have to address the issue, although I believe that those states will quickly decide to codify the right to abortion on demand since they already have that right under Roe.

As to the morality of it, well, in my view it is murder. People can argue all they want about whether it is or it isn't, but those who believe that it isn't also don't believe that the baby (I refuse to use the dehumanizing word "fetus") is a human until after it is born. Famed "ethicist" Peter Singer believes that a mother ought to have the right to kill her child up to the age of two. Past immorality prescribed that Jews weren't human either, or Gypsies, or any other "inconvenient" class of human beings.

But that's just me....
 
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As far as rape why tramatize the poor woman twice.First being the rape, second the abortion?



I think some of you are overlooking a major point here. In the article Rusty linked to it was the birth mother or her parents that made the decision. That’s how it should be but some of you want to give the decision making process over to the government and you want them to apply the same answer in all cases. In a decision that important who should make the call, the woman involved or an arbitrary decision handed down by the government?
 
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