So Lets see some Groups

Quote:This Remington 700 VLS had to be heavily modified to get under 1 MOA. The AR-15 actually took less work and money to get to sub 1/2 MOA in this case.

That's actually pretty normal. There's no doubt bolt guns have better accuracy potential than ARs, but factory ARs are comparatively easy to get to their full (lesser) potential, while bolt guns usually require extensive (and expensive) gunsmithing to reach theirs.

There certainly ARE "spray and pray" ARs out there, but it's not accurate to characterize all of them that way, particularly the custom heavy barrel hunting and competition ARs that have become very common in recent years.
 
Now we are coming to an agreement. Yes AR's can be some very acurate rifles. My out of the box RRA shot just as good, maybe slightly better than my 700 223 did right out of the box. My Dtech shoots GREAT but not in the leuge with my custom 6BR bolt guns. My point was that internet goones will look at 1 itty bitty bughole group a "gas gun" shot & think its the norm. Its not. Thats why there are only pics of one zoomed in groups in this thread. Of course itty bitty bug holes with box savages n remchesters are not norm either. It takes a lot of money to shoot groups like outlaw did. Trust me... some guns never will.
 
Originally Posted By: nmleonQuote:This Remington 700 VLS had to be heavily modified to get under 1 MOA. The AR-15 actually took less work and money to get to sub 1/2 MOA in this case.

That's actually pretty normal.

I have got 5 Remington 700 rifles, four of them are ADL and one SPS. I have done no modifications to them and all will shoot less the 1" at 100 yds. I have spent a good deal of time finding the load that they like though. These are from a 204 to a 7mm. I have heard a lot of reports lately on problems with accuracy out of them but have never had a problem myself.
 
The biggest reason I dont have a gas gun is the cost of them. Most of my rifles are $300 rifles with a $300 quality barrel screwed onto them. I spend a lot of time tuning them and when Im done Im usually rewarded with great accuracy.
Ive spent plenty of time in PD towns with my 10/22's and can tell you that just because you can pull the trigger faster doesnt mean that you can kill more PDs in a day than a bolt gun. If you and I set up in a PD town. Me with my single shot bolt gun and you with your high capacity magazine rifle (empty from the start) by the end of the day we will shoot the same amount of ammo. You might be able to shoot faster bursts but you need to stop and reload while im steadily feeding a new round in on every shot. While your reloading magazines, I will be catching up with you on round count.
Anyhow, Im not trying to bash gas guns. Just trying to defend against the statement that bolt guns can't shoot in the .2's without the major cost that was suggested here. Of course there are some expensive postal queens out there that are very costly and dont shoot well at all. Rifles that have spent more time at the post office going back and forth from highly renoun gunsmiths trying to squeeze the extreams of accuracy out of them and yet they still dont shoot very well.

Someday I will prolly own a gas gun, my friends like theirs and they are fun to shoot once in a while.
 
Originally Posted By: Outlawkyotejust because you can pull the trigger faster doesnt mean that you can kill more PDs in a day than a bolt gun. If you and I set up in a PD town. Me with my single shot bolt gun and you with your high capacity magazine rifle (empty from the start) by the end of the day we will shoot the same amount of ammo. You might be able to shoot faster bursts but you need to stop and reload while im steadily feeding a new round in on every shot. While your reloading magazines, I will be catching up with you on round count.
For shooting on a Pdog town, I'd rather NOT use an AR anyway, especially if your going to be there all day. You're probably correct about shooting the same number of rounds...but your correct for the wrong reason.

It's just a dumb comparison to say that you're starting with an empty gun. That's the point of a magazine fed rifle. Why would you take an empty mag to the field? When I head out, I usually have 30-40 rounds of WSSM ammo loaded up. The 223 shooters in our party have 50-100 rounds ready in mags.

You wouldn't be shooting non-stop all day anyway, but if you were, you'd both be reloading during times when the dogs are hiding anyway. For coyotes where rapid 2-5 shots are very important. Its futile to dispute the AR's superior rapid fire and high cap mag fed abilities.

1 or even 2 mags at a coyote hunting set, and you'll be good to go, depending on the rounds per mag. When you get back to the truck after a set, reload and do it all over again.

I don't think anyone is disputing the general accuracy of a box bolt gun, but AR's have come a long way in the last 5 years.
The beauty of the AR platform and where you save the most money is the caliber conversion uppers. Some people don't utilize this, and choose to buy a complete rifle for each caliber...but if you were to build one lower the way you want, and have 5 different caliber uppers (OR MORE). You'd have just about the same amount of $$ into it as 5 complete bolt action rifles. For AR's you only NEED one great lower receiver.

Originally Posted By: OutlawkyoteJust trying to defend against the statement that bolt guns can't shoot in the .2's without the major cost that was suggested here.
but...you didn't post any information to back it up. You said "a $300 gun, a $300 barrel and at lot of time tuning."
Does that mean all of your $600 bolt gun builds are shooting .2" at 100?
 
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Originally Posted By: Outlawkyote
Ive spent plenty of time in PD towns with my 10/22's and can tell you that just because you can pull the trigger faster doesnt mean that you can kill more PDs in a day than a bolt gun. If you and I set up in a PD town. Me with my single shot bolt gun and you with your high capacity magazine rifle (empty from the start) by the end of the day we will shoot the same amount of ammo. You might be able to shoot faster bursts but you need to stop and reload while im steadily feeding a new round in on every shot. While your reloading magazines, I will be catching up with you on round count.
Anyhow, Im not trying to bash gas guns. Just trying to defend against the statement that bolt guns can't shoot in the .2's without the major cost that was suggested here.

You must hunt Prairie dogs way different than I do. I take 10 loaded 20 round magazines. We move constantly from place to place on four-wheelers so there is no setting up. My buddies would laugh me out of town if I showed up with a 10/22 to shoot 200 yard PDs. It's common to shoot about 200 dogs in less 3 hours around here.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "major cost" but I have never seen a box rifle shoot in the .2's yet. I guess I'm just not that lucky. If your able to do a good bedding job and a barrel change, etc. you can cut your expenses dramatically. That's half the fun of owning such a rifle in my opinion.

Your absolutely right about the cost of a quality gas gun and the accessories that go with it. You can go to extremes with either types. I hate to admit it but I have nearly $2K invested in each of my varmint rifles (1 bolt and 1 AR-15). Myself, I like both bolts and ARs.
 
Not all of them but they will all go into the .5's or I scrap em and start over. Most of what Im finding is that one lil fly in the ointment will screw up accuracy. I spend hours looking for that fly, if I cant find it I take it to a PD town and melt it down and buy a different barrel. If the new barrel wont shoot .5 then I scrap the action and start over. Every action I have has proven itself on the gunrange therefore the only fly can be in my load development or the barrel. I have proven barrels in my safe for checking new actions and their potential. Once an action proves itself I put a custom trigger and stock on the setup.

I do envy the follow up shooting to the AR rifles though, not in PD towns but when predator hunting. "load all week n shoot on sunday" :)
 
You must hunt Prairie dogs way different than I do. I take 10 loaded 20 round magazines. We move constantly from place to place on four-wheelers so there is no setting up. My buddies would laugh me out of town if I showed up with a 10/22 to shoot 200 yard PDs. It's common to shoot about 200 dogs in less 3 hours around here.

I usually go to PD towns for a week at a time. Some days the shooting is so rapid that I need 4 rifles to rotate just to spare melting down a barrel. I sleep there, eat there, shower there, set myself up from different angles on the 4 wheeler. I use 22lr cartridges regularly because they are all around me and lots within 50yds. I set my horse trailer up right in the midst of them and shoot every direction and sleeping in the horse trailer. I dont go home at night, I reload spent cases on my portable loading bench in my horse trailer during evening hours.
 
Starting to sound like that $600 rifle statement was greatly underestimated if you're working with custom triggers, stocks and adding barrels that often.
 
Thats AFTER they prove themself. I dont put that kind of money into an action until AFTER Ive gotten the kind of accuracy I expect. Its for my convenience and comfort that Ii do the trigger and stock.
 
A 700 action with a Hart barrel and a McMillan stock isn't anywhere close to a $600 rifle even without the custom trigger, bedding, truing, etc.

That $600 is a story most of us might tell our wives, but it won't fly among guys who have ever had the accuracy bug.
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Originally Posted By: hylanderOriginally Posted By: Jayhawker275 shot 100 yard group, 24" Bushmaster .223, 60 grain VMax

GunsNStuff077-1.jpg



What Powder and Load ?

26 grains of Varget...not particularly fast but very accurate out of my rifle...
 
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Originally Posted By: HookedThis is remarkable..can you still find 22LR?
Don`t answer,..the store would be over run!

5 years ago when this thread was active there was 22lr everywhere. was cheap too. lol
 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: HookedThis is remarkable..can you still find 22LR?
Don`t answer,..the store would be over run!

5 years ago when this thread was active there was 22lr everywhere. was cheap too. lol

No..I don`t believe so..,
yes a very old post though..not sure how I got here..sorry bout that.
 
Not an AR but here it is anyway. 7mm remmag in the field, in real conditions not a range. Admittedly this is not an off the shelf gun.
Verified 575yds
 
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