..............WIND DRIFT ---- VS ---- CALIBERS..............

Please don't MISS-understand me... I know for a 100% fact that the charts are 100% Math... and once it's taken from the math-program, and into the field... it WILL BE DIFFERENT... because of the elements and human error... which is understandable. But... with my peanut mind, it only makes sense to first learn the math of your total rifle's capabilities first... then take it to the range, and see how close the actual rifle setup and the charts... line up together. Then... take those newly learned skills into field hunting conditions... for more testing of the shooter and the setup, under new and different conditions of the elements and the shooter himself.

Once I get my rifle and bullet combo tuned to it's most accurate point, by working up it's Honey Load. Once I get the Honey Load, I'll need to then learn what it will do in drop and wind drift at different ranges, by comparing the charts to actual range time.

Once that is developed, then it's time to go out into the field and practice in different weather conditions... different shooting positions... at different ranges.

Once you have a handle on all that... then it won't matter if a dog is close or far... it's going down.

Another thing I learned from Lucas... was his ability to tell me how much hold over or drop his rifle needed at different ranges. He knew his rifle, and he knew what it would take to make it shoot effectively... but he started with the chart of that rifle's ability to be effective. A small portion of the chart was on the scope's cap... but it was mostly in his head.
When his daughter and I watched him drop down in the grass and shoot that mule deer right at 800 yds... he didn't need to wonder very much about where to hold off or turn up the turrets.
After knowing the range... reading the wind was the Big Question then.

That my Friends... is where I want to be. It's gotta be second nature shooting... along with chart knowledge as a backup.

When I'm sitting on a hillside glassing or calling for coyotes, and there's one out there at 458 yds... or 567 yds.. or 734 yds... or even 834 yds... I want to have the confidence to take a lethal shot.

If I know my rifle's ability, and develop shooting skills... only then... can I be a Coyote Quigley Down Under.


 
The only way to get there..... is to shoot. Period.

I counted last night..... I've shot 482 rounds of 123 Amax, 214 rounds of 130 Bergers, and 145 rounds of 123 Scenar out of the 6.5x47 and .260 Rem since June. That's 800+ rounds in 6 months.... and the wind still kicks my azz out past 600..... routinely.

Even almost no wind at 600 requires some compensation.... here's a vid of a 650 yard shot on a milk jug... watch the trace, you can see it leak about a foot right.



Here's a few at 650.... the trace is pretty good in this video too. As a note on this vid: I was shooting a test load of 39 grains of Varget behind the 130 Berger. My program called for 13.5 up.... After round one I added 1 MOA, you can see that was too much. Dropped 1/2 MOA after round two, and added 1 MOA left wind.... for the last shot I took 1/2 MOA wind out.... and tried to hit the center dot... In the end, the DOPE was: Up 14, Left 1.5


 
6mm

Your range there looks a lot like mine. I laid out and drove t-posts every 100 yards down a 2 track desert trail out to 1000 yards. We shoot from one small hill out across onto another so the shots are on the same elevation. We have post brackets on our 10" steel targets and just set them on top of the posts, works real well. Sure wished it would warm up some so I could get back out there...
 
Warm up? It's way better in the cool weather....

Those JC Steel targets are awesome ... they too have an excellent system for hanging them on a T-Post. I prefer to use 30" sections of post.... this gets the target much closer to the ground, so correctly calling and spotting misses is much easier.

Another wonderful way to pick up excellent LR wisdom is to spot shots, especially from directly behind the shooter looking straight down the pipe. I like to sit about 5-6' right behind the shooter, with 10x bino on the Bog-Pod. My eyes are about 24-30" off the ground. It becomes very easy to see trace, and learn how the wind is working on bullets.

Spotting gives you a great perspective and 'feel'... kind of like a pitcher feeling how much his curveball is breaking on a given day. Once you have that concept, that it's a 'curveball' breaking more and more as it slows down... the drift thing becomes a little easier to comprehend. Just like a good pitcher, you learn to look at the glove (crosshairs on the target).... but start the ball on an approximate path well high and right (up MOA and L/R MOA.... or MILs) based on YOUR dope.

But, there's no way around it.... you can learn jack, if you ain't there when the gun goes off....

I'll put up another cool trace vid when I get home....
 
Yea warm up just a little. We've had cold weather hanging in here for a month now. It snowed about 5 inches here the first week of December and its still on the ground. I could probably count the number of days at 40 or above on one hand without using my thumb.

I used 60" posts. The targets are on a long sloping hill so bullet impacts arnt too far behind the target in most cases. Since the posts were driven on public land, I'd rather they be tall. I'd hate to hear if someone was out there recreating and having fun, tripped and impaled themselves on a short post that I put there. Wouldn't be a good feeling at all. Its not in an area that gets much travel but all the same....
 
Originally Posted By: dan brothers

Cal.... Gr Bullet... BC... fps... Bullet Drift at 500 yds.
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.20 ......40 vmax ..... .275 ...... 3900 ...... 24.4 inches

.20 ......50 berger ....... .381-? ...... 3950 ...... 23.1

.20 ...... 55 berger ...... .381 ...... 3800 ...... 16.6 in

.20 ............ 55 ...... "" .... "" ...... 3700 ...... 17.5







Not to change the subject but I would love to know how to get a 50 grain berger to have more velocity than a 40 grain vmax
 
I was not being a smart *** as it seriously makes no sense. This whole thread kinda turned into questioning the validity and usefulness of charts for long distance. I wasn't looking for a smart answer just curious as to where the information came from and why different info was used for different bullets. In a thread where the validity of ballistic charts is being questioned by many (not me BTW) why not provide consistent data in the post. I don't see why you would compare wind drift with values that are inaccurate as that is about 500-600 fps faster than what some manuals have listed for 50's
 
Maybe the 50 and 55gr data was from a 20-243.
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LOL... anyone who knows me knows that I was not trying to be a smart azz in my quick reply above. LOL. Those numbers came from data from those who have been shooting 20-250 AI... and even higher speeds are attainable... but not always as accurate as would be desired. These wildcat loads are not always in the manual.

Never the less...even if these numbers were NOT TRUE... which they are... these numbers can still be used for a comparison of wind drift.

This thread did get off track... not of my desire. I started out posting some wind drift data to simply show how much the wind effected our bullets. I hadn't realized how much it really mattered. I have a friend in Ok that thought his 223 with 70 gr bullets would be great in the wind... but when I showed him the chart, that revealed how much better the smaller calibers, with their heavier bullets would out preform his 223... he was amazed and enlightened... as was I.
Last year I was agreeing with him... but the charts say different.

I was just trying to help those who were of my misunderstanding... see the light.

This thread did get side tracked because of my defense of the charts. The charts have the facts, which are meant to be a guideline for truth.

When human logic and attitudes get involved... it's all down hill from there... kinda like trying to reason with my Ex Wife.
 
Not being a huge fan of 20 cal.(.204 Ruger), I skipped several pages. Not saying I will never own one though...
The couple of guys that I know who shoot/reload for the .204 Ruger, prety much come to the conclusion that 40g bullets were going to be the tops for their rifles, and settled on 39g Blitz`s I believe.
All that said,in future charts please include energy at 500 yards as well at 22LR at 100 for comparison.
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Not a problem, I assumed you took my comment as being facetious. I understand all too well how things in text can be misinterpreted. I guess I figured since the 20 cal 40 grain was posted as what seemed to be 204 velocities then so would the 50 grain to keep the 20 cal data consistent. I guess what I was pointing out wasn't that the data was inaccurate but inconsistent since I'm sure a 20-250 ai would push a 40 grain much higher than 3900 therefore making it easier to see the difference in wind drift between bullets out of the same gun...

Anyway now that all of that is cleared up back to the topic
 
Originally Posted By: HookedNot being a huge fan of 20 cal.(.204 Ruger), I skipped several pages. Not saying I will never own one though...
The couple of guys that I know who shoot/reload for the .204 Ruger, prety much come to the conclusion that 40g bullets were going to be the tops for their rifles, and settled on 39g Blitz`s I believe.
All that said,in future charts please include energy at 500 yards as well at 22LR at 100 for comparison.
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I think if you ever do give in that you will like it.. I like the 39 grain sierras but have settled on 40 grain noslers for most of my shooting as they seemed to group a tad better...

One disclaimer I'm not a high volume shooter like some of you out west near the dog towns. I like to punch paper occasionally but have used them a quite a bit on small game and a even a deer that needed to be put down. ( no people I do not condone deer hunting with a 204 so no need to start that conversation)
 
Honestly, this post was interesting to me and some of the results surprising. I even used Hornady calculator for the first time and started looking a little closer at BC`s.

I come close to purchasing a friends R15 in .204, but he decided to keep it.
 
I'm sure all my numbers are not exactly correct...but they are close enough to give an idea of what is happening.

I should have included 300 yd data as well, since most don't shoot past that anyways... and the 17 is really slowing down at that distance. I love the 204... and the 40 gr vmax really works... but I got crazy about wanting the 204 to shoot faster and farther... and that's how all this wildcat data came about... and it was ... and is... an eye opener for me.

Those .22 caliber speeds are in regards of using the 22-243 AI... which looks to be the Mr. Awesome.... no wonder Government hunters use heavy bullets in .22 caliber.
 
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Originally Posted By: dan brothersTake a look at this ammoguide.com site... 5 free days for newbies... I only click on the ballistic calculator option on the left, and fill in the data to get these numbers.

http://ammoguide.com/

Here's one that free for newbies or the experienced... All the time, every day and no 5 day stupid newbie limit. Did I mention that it was free, you don't have to pay someone a monthly charge to use it?

Its one of the best ballistic calculators on the net, ive used it for years and.... Its free.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/calculators/calculators.shtml
 
I think this is one of the best long-range shooting threads posted on this board in a long time. I've really had a good time lately playing at distance with the 22 LR (especially scoped 22 pistols), and consider it one of the best and most rewarding cartridges to use to learn (and teach) the concepts needed for this discipline, especially windage. I never go afield without some sort of system to maximize the range of whatever I'm using, since the math should take over beyond PBR whenever possible...imo. In fact I have a generic dope sheet in the front cover of my 22 notebook that's there permanently to refer to no matter what 22 pistol I'm shooting (.1BC @ 1100mv). Here's a most rewarding 300-yd. 22 pistol shot on a coke can (50 MOA UP from 50-yd. zero)I made awhile back just by referring to the ballistics programs calcs alone. Love the surprised look on this can's face when it gets hit by the 22 (Ruger MK III/2X Barska). Can you see it?

 
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