..............WIND DRIFT ---- VS ---- CALIBERS..............
- Thread starter dan brothers
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dan brothers
New member
can you get it that hot...? If so.. I'll have to check that out when my 6mm gets here.
Tim Neitzke
New member
3150 is easy stuff with my .243AI.
Wind drift has always been part of my shooting here in WY.
All my loads are calculated with a minimum of a 10mph cross wind and up to 30 mph.
I shoot at the range on windy days also to insure my cheat sheet is up to date.
My 6x45, 65g vmax at 3053 drifts 22" @ 400 yards in a 15mph wind and I have dropped coyotes at 596 yards using my cheat sheet & wind indicator tool. At 700 yards my drift in the same winds is closer to 80".
All my loads are calculated with a minimum of a 10mph cross wind and up to 30 mph.
I shoot at the range on windy days also to insure my cheat sheet is up to date.
My 6x45, 65g vmax at 3053 drifts 22" @ 400 yards in a 15mph wind and I have dropped coyotes at 596 yards using my cheat sheet & wind indicator tool. At 700 yards my drift in the same winds is closer to 80".
Smokeless
New member
Wind and gravity are physical facts of life. However the necessity of gadgets and charts to navigate your way is elementary. Sure they can be helpful in a vacuum, but in reality wind at distance is ever changing. You cannot hunt coyotes with wind flags all the way down the shooting lane as they do at the range. You need those flags down range to know if the wind is swirling, and it does all the time in the mountains here. In a hunting scenario the environment is fluid and ever changing.
Any predator hunter that relies on a electronic caller only is a rookie and still needs to learn the art of mouth calls. Much the same as shooters need to learn how to shoot at distance with out gadgets and computer print outs.
Any predator hunter that relies on a electronic caller only is a rookie and still needs to learn the art of mouth calls. Much the same as shooters need to learn how to shoot at distance with out gadgets and computer print outs.
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: SmokelessWind and gravity are physical facts of life. However the necessity of gadgets and charts to navigate your way is elementary. Sure they can be helpful in a vacuum, but in reality wind at distance is ever changing. You cannot hunt coyotes with wind flags all the way down the shooting lane as they do at the range. You need those flags down range to know if the wind is swirling, and it does all the time in the mountains here. In a hunting scenario the environment is fluid and ever changing.
Any predator hunter that relies on a electronic caller only is a rookie and still needs to learn the art of mouth calls. Much the same as shooters need to learn how to shoot at distance with out gadgets and computer print outs.
You're a hard man, Smokie...
Any predator hunter that relies on a electronic caller only is a rookie and still needs to learn the art of mouth calls. Much the same as shooters need to learn how to shoot at distance with out gadgets and computer print outs.
You're a hard man, Smokie...
Tim Neitzke
New member
Dan, BTW...
If you let the coyote get closer , when you miss you'll have lots more time to shoot'em in the azz when running away .
If you let the coyote get closer , when you miss you'll have lots more time to shoot'em in the azz when running away .
swift one
New member
Quote:Any predator hunter that relies on a electronic caller only is a rookie and still needs to learn the art of mouth calls. Much the same as shooters need to learn how to shoot at distance with out gadgets and computer print outs.
This is about the most useless, one sided, arrogant piece of information that I have seen put out in a long time on the subject of long range shooting. Nice work.
This is about the most useless, one sided, arrogant piece of information that I have seen put out in a long time on the subject of long range shooting. Nice work.
dan brothers
New member
LOL... Rookies use compound bows... your not a real bowhunter unless you shoot a long bow. LOL
I hope Military Snipers don't just wing it.
I hope Military Snipers don't just wing it.
Originally Posted By: swift one Quote:Any predator hunter that relies on a electronic caller only is a rookie and still needs to learn the art of mouth calls. Much the same as shooters need to learn how to shoot at distance with out gadgets and computer print outs.
This is about the most useless, one sided, arrogant piece of information that I have seen put out in a long time on the subject of long range shooting. Nice work.
No, this was well put...........well maybe Smokeless should have put "Hunter" instead of "Shooter".
Quote
an, BTW...
If you let the coyote get closer , when you miss you'll have lots more time to shoot'em in the azz when running away . laugh
Another good piece of advice, especially if I was on a hunting trip.
I almost missed a Bobcat I shot that was a little over 225yds. because I allowed bullet drift in a 10mph crosswind. And I knew better too. If a 204 shooting 37gr. bullets has bullet drift at that distance in that wind it is sure slight. Lucky I didn't check any charts before I shot. I would have held off the Cat by several inches and that would have turned into a miss.
As it was, I held 2" left of center of its chest and that is exactly where it hit.
Charts have their place, but in a hunting situation? Way to many variables like wind switching back and forth a distances.
This is about the most useless, one sided, arrogant piece of information that I have seen put out in a long time on the subject of long range shooting. Nice work.
No, this was well put...........well maybe Smokeless should have put "Hunter" instead of "Shooter".
Quote
an, BTW...If you let the coyote get closer , when you miss you'll have lots more time to shoot'em in the azz when running away . laugh
Another good piece of advice, especially if I was on a hunting trip.
I almost missed a Bobcat I shot that was a little over 225yds. because I allowed bullet drift in a 10mph crosswind. And I knew better too. If a 204 shooting 37gr. bullets has bullet drift at that distance in that wind it is sure slight. Lucky I didn't check any charts before I shot. I would have held off the Cat by several inches and that would have turned into a miss.
Charts have their place, but in a hunting situation? Way to many variables like wind switching back and forth a distances.
dan brothers
New member
If I were a teacher, the MAIN thing I would demand my class to know... is the charts.
They better know their rifle, and how the BC of that rifle's favorite bullet is effected by wind... and at different ranges.
Once they learn and re-learn, the charts in the classroom...then it's range time.
The wind flags WOULD come into play... because they can't learn what wind looks like in a classroom... they have to see it, and the flags will show them what the wind looks like at different ranges. Once they see the wind in the flags... then they would learn to see it in the grass... mirages... etc, etc... until they could visualize the wind with a quicker glance... because they would know that some shots will be quicker than others.
So... there would be three parts to my school...
The Classroom.... a place to learn with understanding in the mind.
The Range.... a place to practice what you learned.
The Fields... the place to prove what you learned and practiced...
AND... to develop skills above and beyond the charts to where it becomes natural...second nature.
AND... to develop two types of shots at long ranges....
calculated shots when time is available... and... when it's NOT.
They better know their rifle, and how the BC of that rifle's favorite bullet is effected by wind... and at different ranges.
Once they learn and re-learn, the charts in the classroom...then it's range time.
The wind flags WOULD come into play... because they can't learn what wind looks like in a classroom... they have to see it, and the flags will show them what the wind looks like at different ranges. Once they see the wind in the flags... then they would learn to see it in the grass... mirages... etc, etc... until they could visualize the wind with a quicker glance... because they would know that some shots will be quicker than others.
So... there would be three parts to my school...
The Classroom.... a place to learn with understanding in the mind.
The Range.... a place to practice what you learned.
The Fields... the place to prove what you learned and practiced...
AND... to develop skills above and beyond the charts to where it becomes natural...second nature.
AND... to develop two types of shots at long ranges....
calculated shots when time is available... and... when it's NOT.
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dan brothers
New member
Let me say it again... I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT SHOTS UNDER 300 YDS... those are easy pezzy...LOL.
If that was the max range that I wanted to shoot... then there would be no need for me to ever shoot anything more than my CZ 204 40 vmax... because it hammers all coyotes, bobcats, and hogs out to that range... and it's really fur friendly.
If that was the max range that I wanted to shoot... then there would be no need for me to ever shoot anything more than my CZ 204 40 vmax... because it hammers all coyotes, bobcats, and hogs out to that range... and it's really fur friendly.
dan brothers
New member
When I went on my Montana walk-about... I knew NOTHING about the charts. I knew the wind was going to be a factor... but didn't really learn how much it would... and with different rifles. I thought I'd learn on a need to know basics... well.... I did learn... I learned that I should have stayed in the classroom longer. Heck... I just skipped the classroom and the range... I just jumped into the field and had at it. Talk about STUPID.
Last year my CZ knocked everything over out to 325 yds... and I thought that would carry me over into the Montana fields....NOT.
I didn't want them in close, that's why I tried to mute the ecaller as soon as I saw a dog coming... and I even used hand calls as well sometimes.
It wasn't about killing numbers... if so... I would have went back to OK and KS.
It was about shooting longer range dogs... kinda like a sniper thing.
I didn't have any issues with the country's lay of the land... or my calling... or my glassing... but I did have issues with not KNOWING THE WIND... and how it effects bullet drift.
Last year my CZ knocked everything over out to 325 yds... and I thought that would carry me over into the Montana fields....NOT.
I didn't want them in close, that's why I tried to mute the ecaller as soon as I saw a dog coming... and I even used hand calls as well sometimes.
It wasn't about killing numbers... if so... I would have went back to OK and KS.
It was about shooting longer range dogs... kinda like a sniper thing.
I didn't have any issues with the country's lay of the land... or my calling... or my glassing... but I did have issues with not KNOWING THE WIND... and how it effects bullet drift.
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dan brothers
New member
Man O Man... I'm rambling now...LOL.
I guess the bug bit me after talking so much with those different government hunters.
They knew the closer shots were usually dead dogs... but they are always thinking ... and were preparing themselves... and their weapons... for those longer range hung-up dogs.
I guess the bug bit me after talking so much with those different government hunters.
They knew the closer shots were usually dead dogs... but they are always thinking ... and were preparing themselves... and their weapons... for those longer range hung-up dogs.
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Smokeless
New member
Originally Posted By: swift one Quote:Any predator hunter that relies on a electronic caller only is a rookie and still needs to learn the art of mouth calls. Much the same as shooters need to learn how to shoot at distance with out gadgets and computer print outs.
This is about the most useless, one sided, arrogant piece of information that I have seen put out in a long time on the subject of long range shooting. Nice work.
Well...... I will try to be more helpful then. Here is what YOU need to successfully take coyotes. It has all your little gadgets rolled up in one unit.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/article.php?id=26722&sub=4
Nobody ever learned how to do math with a calculator and no one ever learns a darn thing taking open book tests. At some point you have to know it and have retained it.
This is about the most useless, one sided, arrogant piece of information that I have seen put out in a long time on the subject of long range shooting. Nice work.
Well...... I will try to be more helpful then. Here is what YOU need to successfully take coyotes. It has all your little gadgets rolled up in one unit.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/article.php?id=26722&sub=4
Nobody ever learned how to do math with a calculator and no one ever learns a darn thing taking open book tests. At some point you have to know it and have retained it.
6mm
New member
Originally Posted By: SmokelessWind and gravity are physical facts of life. However the necessity of gadgets and charts to navigate your way is elementary. Sure they can be helpful in a vacuum, but in reality wind at distance is ever changing. You cannot hunt coyotes with wind flags all the way down the shooting lane as they do at the range. You need those flags down range to know if the wind is swirling, and it does all the time in the mountains here. In a hunting scenario the environment is fluid and ever changing.
Any predator hunter that relies on a electronic caller only is a rookie and still needs to learn the art of mouth calls. Much the same as shooters need to learn how to shoot at distance with out gadgets and computer print outs.
Laffin.....
Gravity is constant.... it's science. A monkey with a decent rangefinder and turret can handle that part. Wind is voodoo art.... and two factors will make it much easier: good bullets, and spent primers....
You can't have wind flags..... but you can shoot a good bullet.... and shoot it a lot.
I can always tell the guys with their azz stuck to the couch....
Two kinds of D.O.P.E. in LR shooting.....
One is: Data Of Previous Engagements
The other: is behind a computer screen.....
Any predator hunter that relies on a electronic caller only is a rookie and still needs to learn the art of mouth calls. Much the same as shooters need to learn how to shoot at distance with out gadgets and computer print outs.
Laffin.....
Gravity is constant.... it's science. A monkey with a decent rangefinder and turret can handle that part. Wind is voodoo art.... and two factors will make it much easier: good bullets, and spent primers....
You can't have wind flags..... but you can shoot a good bullet.... and shoot it a lot.
I can always tell the guys with their azz stuck to the couch....
Two kinds of D.O.P.E. in LR shooting.....
One is: Data Of Previous Engagements
The other: is behind a computer screen.....
dan brothers
New member
Nice article Smoky... I'll take two.
Something must be wrong with my computer, because I can swear that I'm typing in English... but I keep getting back replies in Pig Latin.
Can anyone understand what I'm trying to say...??????
It must be me... because I failed all my English Classes.
Something must be wrong with my computer, because I can swear that I'm typing in English... but I keep getting back replies in Pig Latin.
Can anyone understand what I'm trying to say...??????
It must be me... because I failed all my English Classes.
Smokeless
New member
Originally Posted By: Dan brothersfast shots... or close shots... is not what I'm talking about here... it's calculated... longer range... thought out... one shot kills.
AND... it's not about shooting three at your feet.... it's more of a sniper thing, that knocks those coyotes off their safe feeling hill tops.
I just thought the wind drift thing was a real eye opener... having never really looked at it before.
All fun aside. You are on the right track Dan. I just know that when you apply the wind charts to actual long distance there are to many variables for the chart to calculate.
Bullet B.C is difficult to nail down in a number relative to your environment. Manufactures list their "tested" B.C, but often it is not actual at another test site [yours]. Also The barometer has a big effect on bullet B.C the higher in altitude you go the thinner the air and the lower the barometer. This has to be allowed for in the calculation of the chart. [Air density]
Next there is no way to calculate with a computer app the variable wind direction that most often will be present at long distance. You start with a 15 mile wind at your 3 o'clock but closer to the target it is a 20 mile wind at your 9 o'clock. Hard to tell that from where you are. Guys who set up in the same locations for years can learn what that wind is doing out there in that location kind of like a shooting range, but for a run and gun hunter those locations can change often. As does the environment.
Read your charts play with your apps, but in the end, get out there and learn to shoot the wind. It is a challenge but worth it. I just do not believe that you can app, chart, graph, or print your way to being a good long range shot. Application is where it is at. Stick with one rifle and one load. Practice a lot and learn what your combination will do. Unless you are in a vacuum or a controlled environment the charts are hard to apply in the field. IME But get out there and do it. That will tell you all you will need to know.
Have fun!
AND... it's not about shooting three at your feet.... it's more of a sniper thing, that knocks those coyotes off their safe feeling hill tops.
I just thought the wind drift thing was a real eye opener... having never really looked at it before.
All fun aside. You are on the right track Dan. I just know that when you apply the wind charts to actual long distance there are to many variables for the chart to calculate.
Bullet B.C is difficult to nail down in a number relative to your environment. Manufactures list their "tested" B.C, but often it is not actual at another test site [yours]. Also The barometer has a big effect on bullet B.C the higher in altitude you go the thinner the air and the lower the barometer. This has to be allowed for in the calculation of the chart. [Air density]
Next there is no way to calculate with a computer app the variable wind direction that most often will be present at long distance. You start with a 15 mile wind at your 3 o'clock but closer to the target it is a 20 mile wind at your 9 o'clock. Hard to tell that from where you are. Guys who set up in the same locations for years can learn what that wind is doing out there in that location kind of like a shooting range, but for a run and gun hunter those locations can change often. As does the environment.
Read your charts play with your apps, but in the end, get out there and learn to shoot the wind. It is a challenge but worth it. I just do not believe that you can app, chart, graph, or print your way to being a good long range shot. Application is where it is at. Stick with one rifle and one load. Practice a lot and learn what your combination will do. Unless you are in a vacuum or a controlled environment the charts are hard to apply in the field. IME But get out there and do it. That will tell you all you will need to know.
Have fun!