..............WIND DRIFT ---- VS ---- CALIBERS..............

Originally Posted By: borkonthere are charts and then there is real world.
i've seen the 2 not coresponde with each other enough to know i don't like charts
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Charts are very good guidelines to work by...

How's that working with your reloading....just winging it....? LOL.

The truth is... Lucas would say something about having to hold so far into the wind for a shot, and I thought he was wrong, wrong, wrong, ... until I missed, and then later looked at the chart.

Without charts or guidelines... we would be in all kinds of trouble.

And... which is closer to being correct...the chart... or the shooter...?

The charts have no human error...they just show the mathematical facts.

If you had a perfect shooter, a perfect reloader, a perfect rifle setup, and perfect weather conditions.... then you would have a ERROR FREE Chart.
 
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Originally Posted By: borkonthere are charts and then there is real world.
i've seen the 2 not coresponde with each other enough to know i don't like charts
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LOL... Good point... this happens in Church all the time...LOL.
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a couple of things, rarely at 500 yards is the wind "steady"....in other words it may be 10 mph at your location at 3 oclock, BUT what is it all the way out to 500 yards. Probably variable, hence the reason charts might be a good starting point, but getting the coyotes closer if at all possible is a better option.
Secondly, your original chart shows the .17 cal. 30 gr. with .175 BC having 45.6" of drift at 500 yards. When someone pointed out a better BC of .275 for the same bullet, your chart still shows 45" of drift at 500 yards? How can the better BC not make a differnce of more than .6 at 500 yards?
 
I wasn't sure what the BC or FPS was on the 17, 30gr... it was just a starting point, with hopes that others would chime in with corrections.

Let me try this again...

.17 cal 30gr @ .275 @ 4000 fps = 12.6 inches @ 300 yds... 44.5 inches @ 500 yds.

That's with 10 mph steady crosswinds... 1200 ft elevation... 40 degrees... 29.75 barometer
 
Originally Posted By: dan brothersOriginally Posted By: borkonthere are charts and then there is real world.
i've seen the 2 not coresponde with each other enough to know i don't like charts
smile.gif


Charts are very good guidelines to work by...

How's that working with your reloading....just winging it....? LOL.

The truth is... Lucas would say something about having to hold so far into the wind for a shot, and I thought he was wrong, wrong, wrong, ... until I missed, and then later looked at the chart.

Without charts or guidelines... we would be in all kinds of trouble.

And... which is closer to being correct...the chart... or the shooter...?

The charts have no human error...they just show the mathematical facts.

If you had a perfect shooter, a perfect reloader, a perfect rifle setup, and perfect weather conditions.... then you would have a ERROR FREE Chart.

I don't know who Lucas is but this I do know...

You can take all this and throw it out the window because charts don't mean anything if you don't have time to reference them as a coyotes closing in on you. They also don't mean anything when a coyote is 40 yards away.

Thinking back, out of the last dozen coyotes I've shot. One was at 175 and a couple just over 100. Another was about 75/80 yards and the rest were all under 50 yards. All were shot in wide open country.

I'd rather have them close because the chances of me missing that close shot is far, far less than a longer one. I'd rather count coyotes on the ground than missed shots.
 
fast shots... or close shots... is not what I'm talking about here... it's calculated... longer range... thought out... one shot kills.

AND... it's not about shooting three at your feet.... it's more of a sniper thing, that knocks those coyotes off their safe feeling hill tops.

I just thought the wind drift thing was a real eye opener... having never really looked at it before.
 
Dan two things that u r going to need are a chronograph and a wind meter unless u already have them. These two tools will help u figure out what u will have going on when u get your rifles built chrono $100 Caldwell wind wizard under $50. Also after you have established a load for your rifles and shot them through the chrono and know the velocity order some custom turrets. I have some Kenton industries turrets for two of my rifles I just have elevation turrets on them no windage turrets these aren't zero stop turrets or anything like that I wish they were but in 6 years of using them I have only been lost in them twice u just have to check them from time to time or all the time. I chose these turrets because they are made I yards I range the critter and dial to the yards on the turret it is really fast no guess work. I try to call everything in as close as I can like the other guys have said but some times u get one that hangs up or is balled up sleeping and just lifts his head and looks at you and lays it back down and wont have anything to do with u or the one that's sitting out there barking and yipping at u because u never saw him while u were walking in that's when it fun to get some redemption. Having the option and the equipment to do this has bought me a lot of coyotes that would been missed or just walked away from. My current setup right now is a 6x47L I have two loads for it one for a 69gr berger traveling at 3550fps and my other load is 95gr berger vld at 3150fps.
 
All my babbling probably didn't help but I forgot to say one more thing go out and shoot you have to verify the turrets and the charts do this often. This way youll be able to read the info that your wind meter and your range finder are telling you and apply it very quickly if need be. Don't to deep into this crap because a guy can make it very complicated keep it simple most of the time I never use the wind meter I just wait for a broadside shot and use the whole coyote for my windage u have a lot of room there for messing up a shot left to right but not so much for up and down.
 
I do have a chrony... but a cheapy... I see a magneto in the future...and a good wind meter... and a better rangefinder.

Your right about good turrets... which is on my list as well. And I also learned the hard way... that long range coyotes need to be shot at... standing broadside. I didn't wear that t-shirt very much out there... but I will.
 
Anyone that tells you to throw your chart out the window or that wind charts dont correspond with real world, doesnt spend alot of time shooting long range, or doesn't understand what they are doing when they are doing it. I would never go to the field with the possibility of taking a long shot without my wrist data sheet. Sure, most coyotes even in wide open places get withing a couple hundred yards or closer. But I can think of several times where I have come across a coyote sunning in an open field several hundred yards away. If you have the ability to take that shot with the right equipment and data, I say send it. As far as drop/ wind charts not corresponding with the real world. Uhh, no this isnt true. If you plug your data into the ballistics program, I have found that the wind data is quite accurate on some of the better ballistics programs. Drop is somehting that anyone will have to verify as well as wind. But I have found the wind charts to be quite accurate.

Practice with the gun you will be using in field conditions and in different winds. You will become proficient.
 
Pretty funny stuff here....

Those that think wind doesn't matter much.... even at 300 yards... obviously don't shoot much.

Here's a question.... how big is a coyotes vitals.... assuming perfect broadside? By vitals, I mean "anchoring" type hits....

I know.... do you? I'll post some pics in said regard later....

Hint..... a 4" miss in wind will almost always be a rodeo....

.500-.600 BCs certainly don't suck. You can buy a little back with 4k/fps.... but it's fools gold.

"Just call'em in your lap"..... that's all well and good.... when you're set-up for it. But, spot and stalk coyotes is a way of life here.... as are 8-20+ mph winds ...
 
Everyone enjoys coyotes up close and personal including myself.Sometimes I just enjoy setting up and waiting them out in a known travel area that provides me with longer shots without calling.Kinda like deer hunting except with coyotes.Is it the most efficient way to hunt them,,,probably not.But it's fun and enjoyable to me.And it may provide you with a couple extra coyotes that you normally wouldn't call in.

Once I have all my data entered into Shooter and everything has been confirmed.All that's really left is the distance to the target and making the right wind call.Distance to the target is the easy part,,,I use a sheet of paper and draw out all the obvious landmarks,range them and write it down.At a glance I have pretty close idea what the range is,,,spin the knobs (or hold over depending on the distance) and that part is done.All that leaves is making a wind call,,,I'm constantly trying to judge the wind and get a average number to put into Shooter that will allow me enough leeway one way or the other to be on target.Sometimes I dial sometimes I hold off depends on how much wind.Do I always get it right,,,nope,,,but I've missed at 5yrds too and it didn't have anything to do with wind or range.
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A pic from one of my favorite spots to do this.The very back tree line is just a tick over 1100yrds.
 
I forgot to mention too get a good rangefinder don't cheap out here what ever u do buy a good one. I cheaper out twice and could have bought a good one once with what I had into the cheap ones. My beautiful lovely wife surprised me with a new Leica 1600b this thing is amazing compared to what I had been using. I entered in some info for my loads into it from their charts and was amazed how close it was to my custom turrets it was only off by one click ( it has a setting to tell u how many clicks to dial up
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it's amazing)
 
I dig it 'bow...

That's also my favorite way to hunt. Every time somebody buys a FoxPro.... this method of hunting becomes more productive.

Here's one of my favorite 'hides'.... I have a notebook that has yardages and sketches in it, along with confirmed dope on rocks/bushes etc.



 
Originally Posted By: dan brothersI will live, eat, and sleep with them, until I know their drops and drifts, better than Doggin knows the 17 HMR.



That'll never happen buddy boy. Eat, sleep and poop 17hmr.... Drifts and drops? What you talkin bout?
 
I at the very least take LRF reading at landmarks. If I am doing what 6mm does (and I do it alot in the later season), I too will make out a range card. Why not? If the data is confirmed an you are able to execute the shot, then do it. Dont ever - EVER- let someone tell you that a good ballistics program will not work in the real world.
 
I had a pretty good, and popular rangefinder this year, but it lacked in performance more than I thought it should. I'm sending it back to the company today, to ask them to check it out. If they cannot find anything wrong with it... then I'll be looking at those Vectronix range finders.

I told Lucas that I'd rather have a 300.00 rifle and a 2000.00 rangefinder, then the other way around... because without good reads... it's all a guessing game.
 
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