Why are so many 204's for sale?

bluecat-- It is very difficult to understand how the 75 gr. bullet in your .243 could possibly drift only 25% as much as the 40 gr. V-Max in .204 Ruger. I have to agree with DAA in his assessment. I just doesn't sound physically possible. Something certainly sounds like it was amiss with your scope, jerking the trigger, something that would cause that kind of difference.

montana_yoter62-- Here is the link to the JBM Trajectory Calculation site for you:

JBM Trajectory Calculator
 
at 100y 243 dead on 204 was 1/4 to 1/2 right at 300y 243 was 2in right 204 was 4 1/2 to 5 in right maby not 1/4 but less then 1/2 or 1/2. could have been alittle to the right with 204 but thought it was the wind at 100y
 
Seems to me that the ballistics get exagerated. For instance, can a person expect to get 3950 fps with 40 gr. bullets? Aren't most .204's short carry guns with 22 or less inch barrels? Is the BC for a .20 cal. really as high as .275? Is the BC for a .22 cal. really as low as .200? The proof is how it actually shoots. I would need to shoot it side by side with something else (like the 75 gr. .243's) and make my own decision. Charts are fine.... on paper.
 
I sold mine because of hide damage. put a hole in coyotes the size of a softball on the entrance. never an exit. most shots where inside 100 yards, and was using 32 grain bullets. even took some coyes in to a local gun store to show the guys and the said it looked like they had been shot by an rpg. it shot great, good groups. but didnt see a outright advantage to my 221 inside 200 yards.
 
psmorgan:

Most of the 204 Rugers that folks are shooting have barrels 22" or more. The Ruger Model 77 Ultralite has a 20" barrel, but I ony lost about 130 FPS from Hornady's velocity over a chronograph using it. With another identical rifle, it may have been different.

As for the external ballistic tables that Silverfox posted, its hard to argue with pure physics. Some folks have sworn they have seen pigs fly, but it doesn't happen when others are around. Ballistics tables are believable - they just prove a lot of old myths wrong and for some folks that's hard to accept.

Grab a rifle in 204 Ruger or any rifle in one of the other 20 caliber wildcats and try it - you'll be amazed at what they can do. They're flat shooting and hit hard at extended ranges with very little recoil.

Dusty:

The V-Max bullets are known to cause splashes on coyotes when they hit something hard - even in the 22 caliber variety when driven to high velocities. Berger has, and now hopefully Sierra, will have a better bullet for that application.

Take Care - BCB

Edited for spelling
 
silver fox can you do chart with 204 40g vmax at 3600fts or 3700fps i think that is where most will be with 22 in barrols and not over charging there loads
 
Bayou City Boy,
I know that physics don't lie. I was just goin' on to see if Silver Fox's head would explode. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Just my .2 cents worth. I have a .204 Ruger with a 24" medium heavy barrel and I wouldn't trade it for the world. It's the most enjoyable rifle to shoot of all I own and it's accuracy far surpasses mine, if you know what I mean.

A .3" group from a bench is fine, I'm more interested in hitting some kind of critter out in the wild. I may very well never know what my rifle will do from a bench. I may never shoot handloaded ammo through it. I do know it'll kill a groundhog at 400 yds. I've done it and that's all that matters to me.
 
I cant speak for the folks selling the 204 Ruger offering, but I know the 20 caliber is here to stay.
I have a 20-223 AI. Which is in the same league as the 204 Ruger, just a shade slower. Ive shot it a lot, and it just gets better every time out.

Like DAA, I did mine on a Savage.
 
bluecat

I bought some factory 58gr vmax for my 243 & it loves them. MV=3760

It just eats a hole in the paper.

Tried Winchester 55gr BTs at3910 & she did not like them as well.

Having so much fun with the Hornadys that I haven’t bought dies.

I am thinking over the 204 but that will be down the road.
 
Thank you DAA. The .204 is an intriguing little cartridge. I like the idea that it has nearly the identical external ballistics with the 40gr V-Max as my swift does with the 55gr BTs. The 40gr .204s should do better than the 40gr .224s on terminal performance. On paper anyway.

Plumbrich…..

I do not own a .204 but would like to have one. I am one of the guys that just don’t see it as a wonder cartridge. That being said I still haven’t made my mind up in stone.
Click to expand...
You are at nearly the same point that I am. I agree that the 40gr bullets are not a top choice for coyotes in the .224 calibers as I have experimented with them. What gives the 40gr advantage to the .204 is not the weight. It is the BC or more importantly rather is the Sectional Density. Heavier bullets have more kinetic energy than lighter bullets do at identical velocities. That is a given. The advantage of the .204 as I see it compared to the 22-250 or swift or WSM or what ever else that is comparable and commercially available out there is this. Less powder, less recoil and better external ballistics out to most practical ranges. Now you ask “SO, what makes the 32 or 40v-max in the .204 hold together so much better?”

POTENTIALLY concerning the 40gr offerings it could be the bullets greater sectional density. The .204 40gr bullet has a higher sectional density (and BC) than does the .224 offerings. NOW what does that mean? Well of the two bullets of equal weight and identical bullet design (40gr V-Max) the .204 should get better penetration thus having a better killing potential than the .224 does. This could or could not be the case but on paper the advantage in killing capacity for coyotes anyway should lean towards the .204 V-Max.

My biggest issue is weather that bullet can get through the shoulder bone of a coyote and jackal. If it can’t do that reliably then it has no real advantage over the .17 Remington with a 30gr bullet.

Is the .204 all that it is cracked up to be? For what it is yes.

Compared to my swift and load combination its advantage is less recoil, less barrel wear, (comparably) less powder and probably less fur damage across the board. It is almost undoubtedly easier to reload for also.

My swifts advantage is better penetration. Period. Penetration is a top concern of mine. Any rifle that cannot bust through the shoulder bone of a coyote that is quartering to you, every time, is not one that I would take to the field. The shoulder in my opinion covers too much kill zone to have to worry about avoiding.

Before some one goes off on a tirade about shot placement and how important it is, and how they always emphasize it and how good of a shot they are and how one needs to practice and on and on, look at it this way. Who do you know that doesn’t try their level best to make good shot placement no matter what they shoot. It is as natural as breathing to try and put the bullet behind the coyotes shoulder. The point is that it doesn’t always happen.

To say that you always “pick your shot” and put it behind the shoulder is like saying that you never miss. If you have missed a coyote before (and you have) you certainly have the potential of hitting the shoulder. I don’t avoid the shoulder or even think about the shoulder because I don’t have too. That is an advantage. I of course try and make the best shot I can at what ever given angle that is presented to me. But, f the shoulder just happens to cut the vittles right down the middle as is the case with a quartering frontal shot, so be it. I will slam one right through it and then go pick up my coyote.

Broad side shots are just what they are. ANY rapidly expanding bullet can get you the “bang flops” that everyone likes to talk about.

Between the ribs of a broad side coyote there is nothing but 4 to 5 inches of lung and artery filled space at the widest point. It doesn’t take any kind of a rifle to get to the goodies and kill the coyote. No matter what caliber or even bullet you use there is just not that much that one bullet can accomplish over another in such a small working area. It is my contention that if a bullet/cartridge doesn’t have the capacity to exit a 4 to 5 inch target then what happens when you don’t get that perfect shot that always looks good on paper to all of the “virtual” coyote hunters in cyberspace? On coyotes, less penetration can directly lead to more runners and then on to more escapees.

Maybe only 1 in 10 coyotes will need to be taken through the shoulder. If you only shoot 20 coyotes (or less) a year that statistic may not ever catch up with you and you could probably get along just as well with an HMR. However if you shoot between 1 and 2 hundred a year that statistic can be irritating and costly.

A lot of guys get by with a lot less gun than I do and do well with it. I am not intending to knock anyone here. I am ONLY just bringing up some points that I feel could be valuable to some of you.

As of now I am still undecided about the .204 and it’s potential to be a top contender. It is good and that is great but is it better? Better is always better and the best is unattainable so we will see. LOL

Good hunting.

Q,
 
there are a other facters to i do not shot pds all i shoot are coyotes mybe a crow. If i get to shoot at 25 coyotes a winter thats a lot killed 12 so far all with 204 did not drop one dead a lot of 30 to 60 yard run offs witch i did not mined. i just fill 243 will fit me better. PLus i have a 223 in 12fv would not sell for nothing good shooting gun.
 
Dusty, after reading what bullet you were shooting and from what Bruce told me about your loads, I have no doubt about your bullet splash. The set up you had would work great for PD's not Yotes. I shoot strictly 40gr bullets and the only time I have large entrance holes is when I shoot a shoulder or back bone. The last two yotes were shot inside 70 yards and you would have to look real hard for one of the holes. I even looked at the bolt face of the Savage at the gun store. You had some significant pressure going on at one time.
 
I think the .204 was geared more towards the prairie dog crowd than anything. Bullets are made for 3 things. Varmints, paper and big game. Coyote hunters are left getting by with what is out there. I would sure like to design a coyote bullet. For my applications with the .204 I think if Nosler would make a .204 40gr bullet with a high BC and used there AccuBond technology they would probably have the best pure coyote bullet available!

Good hunting.

Q,
 
Plumbrich-- The only reason I posted the charts comparing the 40 gr. .204 bullet with the 40 gr. .223WSSM bullet was because a poster in an earlier thread thought the 4,500 fps speed of that bullet in the .223WSSM would outshine the ballistics of the 40 gr. V-Max in the .204 Ruger.

I agree that the BC of the 40 gr. V-Max .224 bullet stinks and in other posts have stated that. I merely posted those comparisons because you can start the .224 bullet out at around 4,200 fps and the 40 gr. .204 bullet at around 3,900 to 3,950 fps and the .204 bullet shines brilliantly. YES, I have fired test loads with 40 gr. bullets in the .204 Ruger at 3,950 fps with no signs of pressure!!!

I also posted tables listing the wind drift, ft-lbs of energy, and trajectory for 22-250 shooting a 55 gr. V-Max compared to those statistics for the 40 gr. V-Max in the .204 Ruger, but here it is again:

22-250_55gr_204_40gr--tiny.jpg


So there you have your comparison of a heavier .224 bullet going head-to-head with the .204 bullet in 40 gr. variety. Once again, the .204 bullet has the superior numbers becasue as Q has said and Jack Roberts has said and I have said the .204 bullet has the better BC.

Once you get above the 55 gr. .224 bullet you may have to get a custom barrel with a faster twist than the factory barrels offer to stabilize those bullets. I have never tried any bullets heavier than the 55 gr. bullet in my 22-250, but I think some folks have shot the 60 gr. variety of .224 bullets in factory twist barrels with some success.

From what I have read about other folk's experiences with the heavier .224 bullets, once you get beyond that 60 gr. weight, you will most likely have to buy a custom barrel with a faster twist.

With the 40 gr. bullets in the .204 Ruger, you can use your factory 1 in 12 twist barrels. However, we have heard reports that some shooters don't get good accuracy with the 40 gr. bullet in their .204. I don't know if that is because they haven't taken the time to work the load up or if the 1 in 12 twist is a tad slow for the 40 gr. bullets.

NOW, Sierra comes onto the scene with the 39 gr. bullet with a reported BC of .287!!! No, that IS NOT a typo the BC has been listed by Sierra as being .287!!! The BC of their 32 gr. bullet was reported to be .221.

For any of you sitting on the fence waiting to see how this .204 Ruger caliber shakes out, I can certainly appreciate your concerns. I do hope that you try the .204 Ruger caliber or one of the other fine .204 caliber offerings out there. They are a real joy to shoot and with the multitude of gun manufacturers now producing rifles in the .204 Ruger caliber, 5 major bullet manufacturers maketing .204 caliber bullets, I think the .204 Ruger is more than a flash in the pan.
 
Silverfox, just for grins I bought a box of 32gr factory stuff to see how it shot in my LV. It and the 40 grainers shot in the same place with the approximate same size groups. Think I'm fixing to order some 40gr Bergers and go to playing.
 
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