Why are so many 204's for sale?

It is of my opinion that the .204 does not live up to its claims and folks are starting to realize it. It is no better than what is available now but new things have to be made to sell products. Hype is a wonderful thing.
 
Well put Steve. I've always been intrigued by hype. I've also been known to go out and get the newest and best myself on occation, but I do like to sit back and watch as well. Things just seem to have a way of going back to the basics.

Brad
 
22-250VT-- Having read some of the posts about folks selling their .204 Rugers and after reading some of the information in some of the ads where people were selling their .204 Rugers, I have come to the conclusion that many of them are upgrading to a better quality rifle in .204 Ruger.

I, for one, WILL NOT be selling my Savage 12VLP in .204 Ruger. I speak from experience and this IS NOT JUST OPINION! I achieved almost the exact listed velocities with my rifle shooting 32 gr. Hornady factory ammo that Hornady advertised for the factory 32 gr. V-Max ammo. Further, I have several safe loads that will fire that 32 gr. bullet at speeds equal to or greater than the "hyped" speed of 4,225 fps. NO HYPE, NO OPINION WITHOUT EXPERIENCE GENTLEMEN--actual in-the-field and over the chronograph numbers.

Although I have never fired one round of the 40 gr. Hornady factory ammo, I have fired handloads in the 3,900 fps range for velocity. AGAIN, GENTLEMEN, NO HYPE, NO OPINION WITHOUT EXPERIENCE--actual in-the-field and over the chronograph numbers.

One thing that many of you naysayers and .204 Ruger slammers forget or don't even take the time to learn about the rifles in the .204 caliber class is that the 40 gr. bullets for the .204 have a very high ballistic coefficient (compared to the .224 bullets in the 40 gr, 50 gr., 52 gr., and 55 gr. range) that makes these .204 caliber bullets even better for flatness of trajectory and better in wind bucking capability than the .223 and 22-250 shooting the 40 gr., 50 gr., 52 gr. or 55 gr. bullets. I have posted trajectory and wind drift charts on this board based on listed BCs for the 40 gr. bullet for the .223WSSM, the 55 gr. bullet in the 22-250, and also for the 32 gr. V-Max in .204 and the 40 gr. V-Max in .204. Some posters have said that those BCs are inflated by the manufacturers, but even if we dropped the BCs for the 40 gr. V-Max in .204 caliber down 10 or 15% below the listed BC, I think the 40 gr. bullets in the .204 caliber would still outshoot the .224 bullets in the 40 gr. to 55 gr. range as far as flat trajectory and less wind drift.

Now, if you go up to heavier bullets in the .224 rifles you will usually have to get a custom barrel with a faster twist, and with the heavier bullets and the faster twist, yes, then the .224 rifles will hold the edge over the 40 gr. bullet in the .204 Ruger.

So, I think many of the .204 Ruger rifles up for sale are those that folks bought on the "cheap" just to see what the caliber was like. I think many of them liked the .204 caliber and are either building a custom barreled .204 Ruger or buying a better quality factory .204 Ruger. That's my "opinion" and I'm sticking to it.

[edited for spelling]
 
You can argue about terminal bullet performance forever, lots of variables.

Ballistics is a done deal. Not much wiggle room there.

Jack
 
As soon as I saw this thread I was eying it like a chicken hawk waiting to see what old silverfox had to say. I knew it would light a fire under his butt. LOL

BTW has ANYONE in cyber space tagged the 40grain V-Max with an official BC yet? To me, that would be the bullet that would make or break the round. Also what does Sierra have to say about their offerings? Have they assigned a BC to either bullet?

Good hunting.

Q,
 
I'll admit, Silverfox was the first person I thought of after I posted here LOL! Anyway being more specific, The 204 hasen't cured any of the shooting problems a lot of the new gunners I know had before they owned that cal. A gut shot will run off regardless of what the gun or shot distance is. I know a few people I suspect were hoping that would change. They don't want to put the time and research in, they just want a cure all.

Someone who knows what they're doing and knows what to expect out of the gun, someone like Silverfox, will be able to appreciate what it can do and get the maximim efficiency out of it.

Brad
 
Silverfox said it all gentleman. I do not have half the trigger time on the 204 Ruger that he does and i too am matching and beating Hornadys listed velocity on the 32 gr load, and doing it safely!!! This little barn burner shoots circles around my 223 AND my friends custom 22-250 out to 250 yards, it has a flatter trajectory and more velocity than either above and its quickly becoming my favorite caliber. I find it responds well to about any powder (within reason) and its quite easy to load for. I am hoping we can all get our hands on some winchester brass after the shot show. As far ad terminal performance i have taken a crow that ended up a pile feathers and a set of feet, and an old stray nuisance dog that liked to try to run down livestock, it took a 32 gr V-Mav to the base of the skull at over 150 yards, nothing left but a set of ears. From what i have saw the terminal preformance is surprising for no bigger of a bullet. I wouldnt dream of getting rid of mine!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Let's say a 40gr bullet with a ballistic coef. in the same ballpark as a 55gr in .224, velocity in the same ballpark as the 25gr factory .17, Noise level close to a 223 with less recoil. Can see bullet impact through the scope like a 17, can buck the wind better than a 22-250. Seems like the best varmint cartridge to come from the factory since the 22-250. Theirs just one big problem, I don't have one yet.
 
I think Silverfox is right (as is always the case). I have 2 rifles in 204 presently, and am going to have another one built. I might sell one of my current ones, only to fund the new purchase.
No, I haven't shot a truck load of coyotes with it yet, but I have shot enough to know it will kill them with a well placed shot, recoil is light, and it shoots very flat. I did shoot 225 rounds of the 40 grain V-max at prairie dogs late last summer, and I have nothing but praise for the round. The ballistics are better, you use less powder to do it, and you can see the hit better--what's not to like about it? The only thing I've notice with both my 204's is that it has taken 50-60 rounds for them to settle down and start shooting real well. Possibly people are giving up on their rifles before they get them broken in and shooting well? For what it is worth. Good Hunting.
Greg C.
 
I get amused when folks who "haven't done" have expert opinions on "what's best" and what isn't. No matter what a new caliber might be, there is a rush to get one and not everyone finds its what they want. Others read the comments of those folks and become instant experts on what's good and what isn't by dwelling on the negative. Someone once said if you want to be an expert, sound negative.

Several years ago I bought a 17 HMR and found it to be lacking in ability compared to several of the centerfire small 17's and sold it. Further, I have no plans to buy another one - it just didn't do what I wanted. Does that make it a badly designed cartridge or anything of the sort? NO!! It just didn't offer me anything beyond what I already had. For others, it opened up a whole new shoooting experience and for that reason its a great addition to the shooting world and is a great seller.

Silverfox is one of the few individuals who has really taken time to work with numerous powders and bullets to try to determine what the 204 Ruger is capable of. Most 223 and 22-250 shooters copy what everyone else has done for years and blissfully believe they have the best. I know that's what I did with both of those cartridges for years. I also know I blew some big holes in small critters that could have been shot with something more appropriate for the task.

For over 30 years I have shot 17's, 223's, 22-250's, and 243's at various varmints and predators and believe they are all great rounds. However, none of them are "the best" for any specific task.

About 4 years ago I got involved in the 20 calibers with the Tactical 20. Since that time, I have found the 20 calibers do fill a small niche between the 17's and the 22's in terms of trajectory and power. Is there anything magical about the 20 calibers? Not really. Are they efficient? In my opinion they are for the things I do with them. They offer more power than the 17's and a flatter trajectory than many of the 22's without going to fast twist barrels, etc., that aren't readily available to everyone.

I bought two 204 Rugers and recently sold one because from my experience (over a chronograph), the Tac 20 will do everything the 204 Ruger will do with less powder. On the positive side, you can now buy 204 Ruger rifles and ammo off the shelf. That's a definite addition to the shooting world.

What it amounts to is the 20 calibers are very flat shooting cartridges that will kill anything they are used for if the shooter is up to the task. Is a 17 Remington good for coyotes? Not by someone who operates on the "spray and pray" principle. (Incidently, I am and have been an AR-15 shooter for years and have no problems with that type of hunting rifle so don't start the flames). I use the term "spray and pray" for those who believe that they can hit an animal anywhere at any range and it will instantly flop over dead because they have the "best" cartridge for that purpose. In the right hands, the 17 Remington is great for coyotes - in the wrong hands its a disaster.

What I'm trying to say with this rambling is that the 204 Ruger is a very flat shooting, hard hitting sub caliber. Is it the best there is? Probably not - not even in the 20 caliber world. But it will do what its designed to do by the right person - Ask Silverfox - he has some good information about what it is capable of - not just third hand mis-"information" that becomes fact if repeated enough times.

Rant over - BCB
 
Silverfox, well said....
edit-BCB, also well said....

As for the hype....what isn't it doing that it claims??? Flat shooting and with low recoil.....it's all of that and it will flat anchor a coyote out to 378 yards......that's as far as i've shot one.

As of this weekend, I've taken 17 coyotes with the 204 (2 this weekend). Other than a couple of run-offs on running shots w/ Berger LTB (not a coyote bullet IMHO, but that is another subject entirely)the 204 has bang flopped everything I've shot from 80-380 yards. And other than 3 taken with the 40 grain Bergers, all were shot with the 32 grain v-max (including the 378 yarder).....the 40 grain v-max (or sierras) should be as good or better.....

I love my 22-250 but the 204 is MUCH more fun to shoot due to the recoil and kills just as effectively and shoots flatter. Watching the bullet impact on prairie dogs and coyotes makes it worth every penny!!!
 
sold my 204 for one reason wind had alot of wind drift with 40vmax shot great very flat. I am not good enough shoot to play the wind going to 243 savage friday if its in.Mabay not bad wind drift to somebody that shoots alot of small cal. but for me to much
 
I don't know why or if it is really happening that shooter's are dumping the .204! I have been watching with interests the .204 discussions and one thing is missing from all of them, ACCURACY! (including this thread) You can hype all you want about velocities, BC's, wind drift, damage, etc. In my oppinion if it can't shoot 1/2" groups all day long at 100yds it "ain't" nothing I will own. COULD IT BE THAT THE ACCURACY ISN'T ACCEPTABLE TO MOST PEOPLE?
 
Well just to stir the pot a little I do have my 204 up for sale or trade but only because I found a remington 204 that pleases the eye,Sam was right about accuracy being a key issue and the 204 shoots about as well as anything out there.
Hunter
 
Both of the 204 Rugers I have owned shot extremely well. I sold the Ruger Ultralite as I mentioned above simply because I like the Tac 20 cartridge better and have several of those, and I wanted something else at the time.

Accuracy with the 204 Ruger cartridge is just like with any cartridge these days - its more a function/result of the fact that some RIFLES shoot better than others in today's market - even from the same maker.

Some people have complained about the accuracy probably because their rifle just would not shoot period, or because they thought a 0.5" inch group should just spring eternally out of a light barreled rifle. Others have written about fantastic accuracy, barrel fouling problems. etc., etc.

These are all good and bad that can be expected from the quality of rifles sold over the counter today, and from a high performance cartridge. However, to propose that the 204 Ruger cartridge or any other cartridge is by itself inaccurate is not valid.

Can I get better results with re-loaded 204 Ruger cartridges than I can with factory ammunition? Yes. Why do many of us reload??? On that same point, I can get better accuracy results from shooting my own hand swaged 20 caliber bullets than I get from shooting factory bulets that are reloaded. The same type of consideration applies to custom rifles versus factory rifles.

However, suggesting that the 204 Ruger cartridge is innacurate is like saying it drifts in the wind more than my 223 and other myths that ballistic programs just don't back up. Maybe as one of the posters above stated, some people are looking for an all-around cure for what ails their shooooting ability. That the 204 Ruger or any other cartridge will not provide. - BCB
 
22-250VT

I smiled when I saw the post and then laughed out loud when I saw "your name". Might have known it would be from a 250 lover. No, I don't even own a 204 just caught my eye and put a smile on my face. Lots of caliber specific folks on here.

I too was U.S. Navy 1971-2001, while you were on the Ranger I was riding the Saratoga CV-60. Fair winds and following seas there shipmate. I did 30 years 3 months and 22 days. but who was counting.

Sonny Pruitt
Pruson
CWO4, USN Retired.
 
...In my oppinion if it can't shoot 1/2" groups all day long at 100yds it "ain't" nothing I will own.
Click to expand...
I bet you've bought and sold more than a few factory guns then.

I bought a Ruger No. 1 in .204 recently, and went into it with very low expectations, due in part to posts such as this. I couldn't have been happier with the purchase, and will own another before too long. No, it won't do on paper what my Tactical Twenty will, but it cost 1/3 less and factory ammo is available everywhere.

For a factory gun loaded with factory ammo, it will do what I want it to "all day long"

Mike Johnston
 
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