Why are so many 204's for sale?

SamSpade-- I'm not sure there are very many factory rifles that will shoot you "1/2 inch groups all day long, especially the pencil barreled rifles," but with my Savage 12VLP, after I got the barrel broken in, I was getting those 1/2" groups. This is a heavy barreled rifle and I expect to get that kind of accuracy.

Now, with properly worked up handloads here is what you can do with my Savage 12VLP in .204 Ruger. Caveat-- This load is safe in my rifle, BUT it is just slightly over the MAX listed on the Hodgdon Web site, so DON'T use this load--start working up from about 27.0 gr. as 29.0 gr. is the listed MAX.

I get groups in the mid high .3s to the low .4s with the 40 gr. Berger LTBs. Too bad some of you folks won't ever take the chance to use such a fine, accurate, low recoil, killing machine. That's your loss, though, and not the loss of those of us with in-the-field experience!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Three shots, 100 yards, from a bench.

32gr_H4895_8-30-2004--text_small.jpg
 
My Savage will only shoot 10-shot groups in the .6" range.....JUNK...... :rolleyes: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Originally posted by gil_wy:
[qb] My Savage will only shoot 10-shot groups in the .6" range.....JUNK...... :rolleyes: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif [/qb]
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Why on Earth would you keep such a lousy shooting gun??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
gil_wy:

I have to agree with Mike. What would cause you to keep such a worthless piece of junk??

Semd it to Sam and he'll have it shooting better in no time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif If not, he'll send it right back.

Oh, wait, is that an inaccurate 204 Ruger? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif That explains it - Sam probably can't help you with this problem - looks like you're just stuck with it. Poor choice all the way around on your part!! Hadn't you read about the problems with this caliber that others have read about??

You have my sympathy!! - BCB /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Okay guys and gals don’t let my PM name fool you, I am not a rabid 22-250 or nothing guy, though it is my favorite round.

For the record I own the following varmint/predator rounds: 17HMR, .223, 22-250, .243, and 25-06.

I didn’t start this thread to knock the .204 Ruger, I started it because I’m thinking of buying one in a Remington 700 but became alarmed at all the used rifles that are for sale on this site and others. I figured these guys must know something that I don’t and wanted to ask.

After reading all the above it looks like 60/40 on the pro side of the .204, a majority but not an overwhelming majority. Let’s see where this goes and I’ll do additional homework on other threads.

Let the lead fly!

Steve

PS: Pruson, pleasure to have indirectly served with you!
 
After reading all the above it looks like 60/40 on the pro side of the .204, a majority but not an overwhelming majority. Let’s see where this goes and I’ll do additional homework on other threads.
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Maybe I missed other threads on this, but at least in this particular thread it seems to me that the negative comments are coming from shooters that haven't yet tried one. If those with negative thoughts have owned or hunted with a .204 and were not satisfied, then those are serious points to consider. But if someone is just parroting another, its hard to give it much weight.

Its all just fun and games. We are going to buy what we like, and pass on what we don't. I bought into the negative press concerning the .17 Remington years ago. Now I am thinking one of those would be a nice addition to the safe. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
22-250VT-- Take the time to go back through the posts in this thread and just count the Yays and Nays on the caliber from those folks who ACTUALLY OWN AND SHOOT the .204 Ruger! Those folks who just GUESS about what the rifle can and can't do and haven't taken the time to do the actual caluculations about wind drift and drop of the various bullets with the various calibers don't even deserve to have a vote IMHO. They are just operating from OPINION that doesn't seem to have any basis in fact as far as I can see. Many of them haven't even paid very close attention to the trajectory and wind drift charts that have been posted that compared the .223WSSM, the 22-250, the .243, and the .204 Ruger.

MY TALLY OF RESPONSES-- What I see of the posts in this thread are eight (8) people who have actual .204 Ruger shooting experience. Of those eight, seven (7) are very satisfied and one feels that while the trajectory was flat there was just too much wind drift with the 40 gr. bullet and went back to a .243. It might be interesting to find out what bullet that .243 shooter is using, what velocity he gets, and do some trajectory and wind drift charts comparing his bullet to the 40 gr. V-Max. Since I don't know what bullet bluecat is going to shoot in his .243, I'll just post the trajectory and wind drift chart I worked up for the 75 gr. V-Max and the 87 gr. V-Max in the .243 caliber and below that I will post the trajectory and wind drift chart for the 40 gr. V-Max in the .204 Ruger. Draw your own conclusions, but please, at least take the time to look over the numbers.

243_75_and_87gr_V-Max.jpg


204_Ruger--40gr_V-Max_traj--small.jpg


The 75 gr. and 87 gr. V-Max bullets have very similar trajectories with one another. The 40 gr. V-Max in the .204 Ruger has less drop than either of the .243 bullets in the charts above.

Then, for wind drift, the 40 gr. .204 Ruger and the 75 gr. .243 bullets have almost identical numbers for wind drift--it's a wash IMHO. The 87 gr. .243 bullet has the edge on the 40 gr. .204 bullet by a little bit up to the 300 yard mark. After that point the .243 begins to outshine the .204 Ruger bullet by a good margin.

The .243 bullets would also get the nod for ft-lbs of energy over the .204 Ruger by a wide margin. For predator size and smaller targets, however, the 40 gr. V-Max in a .204 Ruger has enough ft-lbs of energy to kill predators in the 35 to 40 pound weight category all the way out to 500 yards. I'm not sure how many of us could hit that coyote, fox or bobcat at the 500 yard mark though--speaking mainly for myself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Some of the posters here who don't shoot the .204 Ruger don't seem to want to be confused with the facts because they have already made up their minds /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Edited to make the .243 charts a tad bit smaller and to make some comments on trajectories and wind drift.]
 
Q, the published BC for the 40 Vmax is .275. What little shooting I've done with it, and what I've heard from others, the published number seems about right.

Sierra hasn't put BC's on their new ones yet. Which seems very odd to me?

Eddie, I put together a .20BR last spring. I used a SSS barrel that I installed myself on a Savage. Didn't get to shoot it near as much as I would have liked, but I'm pretty happy with it over all. Couldn't get it to shoot very well with the 40 Vmax though. I'm using the 32's in it, at 4500 fps., they group just under 1/2" for me. Flat shooting little sucker, that's for sure!

No experience with the .204 Ruger myself, so I won't say much about it. I do think Silverfox, BCB have put it very well. I especially liked Spur's brief description.

I do believe the .20's have some real potential, in general. Got a .20-250 rolling around in the back of my head, that I'll probably build next year. Want to see what those 40 Vmax will do at 4500 fps /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif .

- DAA
 
Silverfox,
Now that is a good post on the .204 and I would like to see more like this. I have nothing against the .204, I have just been sitting back and waiting for some one like you to show what it can do. Posts like this on the .204 just don't appear very often. And no I don't shoot factory guns, all of mine have some customization. And no I don't shoot "pencil barrels". And yes I have seen a lot of guns come and go. Most posts herald the .204's speed which don't mean much. If you want speed go to the 223 WSM at 4600 fps.
 
We all have our favorite calibers because of one reason or another.
My Varmint guns:
Rem. 40XBR in 222AI, with a Hart Barrel
Rem. Classic in 243AI with a Lilja Barrel
Volquartzen in 17HMR
So does a .204 fit in there? You betcha if it will preform and I hope it does.
 
SamSpade-- In your last post you said:

Most posts herald the .204's speed which don't mean much. If you want speed go to the 223 WSM at 4600 fps.
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While raw speed isn't the whole equation, it is an integral part of the equation, nonetheless. To calculate trajectory and wind drift, I have always been led to believe that you have to factor in both the speed AND the ballistic coefficinet of the bullet. The charts below show that the .275 BC of the 40 gr. bullet in the .204 Ruger wipe out the speed advantage of the 40 gr. bullet in the .223 WSSM with its less impressive BC of .200.

I did a post on that .223 WSSM cartridge shooting a 40 gr. bullet a while back, however the speed the other poster was touting was 4,500 fps. I did a chart for him that I'll post for you now.

204_Ruger--223_WSSM--smallest.jpg


So, yes, speed isn't everything, but I am still impressed by the SPEED and ACCURACY of the bullets I have shot in my Savage 12VLP in .204 Ruger. I just LOVE the ability to keep the scope on the target animal and watch the bullet hit the intended target. I'm not sure you can do that with the .223 WSSM, but then that is just my OPINION because I have never shot a .223 WSSM.
 
Really enjoyed this thread...I will continue to watch it with great interest. Silverfox, thanks for the data. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Hammer them Silverfox !!!!! They don't know what they are missing. That's alright though, gives me more possible ammo to shoot. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I dropped two more yotes yesterday with the new LV and plan on busting more. I had considered getting the 223 WSSM when it first came out. Reason began to take over, especially after I shot one. It wouldn't do anything any better than my Swifts and I already had 3 of them. Seems like everyone was comparing it to the Swift anyway or trying to. The 204 is a great cartridge, especially for calling. People say that the 40gr V-Max isn't big enough to drop big coyotes. Hmmm, seems like I've killed a few big northern coyotes with no problems.
 
To be honest I am one of those people who sold the first 204 that I bought. It was the 77 ultra light. Started out and the grouping wasn't very good. I was having trouble keeping the groups under 2" for some reason. Thought it may get better with barrel break in, it never did.

I was hearing great things about the .204 so I couldn't give up on it. Decided to go with the savage low pro. Got it out of the box, put the scope on, sighted it in (5 shots). First group was sub MOA. Got the barrel broke in and now it will shoot sub 1/2" groups.

I can't believe any one would buy this crappy caliber. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I have a .204 for sale in the classified but let me assure you it has nothing to do w/the caliber itself.Mine is a Ruger heavy varmit and I have always been a Remington guy.If someone were to offer up a VS in trade I would hop on it in a second.I put in my ad that I was looking for a 22-250.I have always wanted one.As far as accuracy goes I think some of the naysayers would be very suprised.I did a small load test.Loaded 5 each in 28,28.5,29,29.5 and 30 grains of BLC-2.The 29.5 gave me the best general grouping ,so Iwent inside and loaded 10 rounds and came back and did 2 groupings 1 measured .564 and the other was .511 .No further work has been done to work the load.Silverfox gave me some idea to follow but I do not have a crony(yet).Guys I think if you would give the .204 Ruger a chance you would be pleasantly suprised.
 
Time for me to give a quick update on this caliber.

I love it. I just hate the gun. If I could get a 20" barrel to perform the way a 24" does, then I would be all over it. I just don't like the fact that the Ruger MK77 I have is long, and light. I can hit whatever I want to with it, and even dropped a coyote a few steps shy of 500 (492 actually). I love my .22-250, and I love my .223, I have a different gun for a different circumstance, and this one fits into my program nicely. It won't be leaving my hands anytime soon, unless I have another .204 Ruger already for a replacement.
 
OOOOO I love this kinda thread let me toss in my input here.

I own a savage model 16 in 204 ruger(yes its a pencil barrel). And I LOVE this gun it will shoot much better than i do with the load I have now I shoot groups between .20 and .60 quite ragularly. If your wondering about terminal energy down range well you can ask the p dogs, coyotes and rabbits that caught some of my bullets! I have seen p dogs ripped in half completely, it took everthing from the inside of a rabbit and sprayed it on the bullberry bush behind it and took the head completely off another rabbit and set it about 3 feet from where the body lay! Pretty good in my book I dunno maby you want tighter groups and more explosive rounds??

p.s. silverfox where is that online trajectort calculator u use again thanks
yoter
 
they were 75g in the 243 charts are good but when you are sitting there shooting both guns side by side that tells the truth to me i seen the differance and was very impressed with 243 wind drift it was about 1/4 what the 204 in 40g was.
 
You sure the windage wasn't off on one of the scopes? Only one fourth the wind drift just isn't possible. Not even close to possible.

- DAA
 
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