Originally Posted By: chzOriginally Posted By: NdIndyOriginally Posted By: chzIf I made a bad or even questionable judgement call using deadly force or had an accidental discharge you bet your [beeep] I would prefer to be a LEO instead of Joe Public. Look at all the high profile bad police shootings. “I thought he was reaching for a gun” isn’t going to fly nearly as well for Joe Public. Please don’t make me waste my time pulling up all the bad shootings from the last few years.. LEO are put in a tough spot having to enforce the law and also protect themselves. There is a considerable amount of leeway given to them when they feel threatened. I suspect the reason they are never prosecuted is because it’s a slippery slope. If you start prosecuting officers who make poor decisions and take lives it could create an atmosphere where officers are too concerned about making the wrong call and it could cost them their lives. It’s not ok for an officer to feel threatened and not react the way they feel they should for fear of making a bad decision and going to jail.
It’s a tough job with a world of responsibility. I have nothing but respect for LEOs, especially now that they are under such scrutiny because of the actions of a few.
Nope, not even close to correct. In court a regular person is held to the "reasonable man" standard. In laymen terms would your average guy with no training, in the same situation come to the same conclusion. That's a really low bar to cross.
LE otoh is held to the "reasonable officer" standard. In laymen again, would your average officer, with training and experience, make the same decision. A much higher bar.
In 1, "I was scared" is a legitimate defense.
As far as mags, do you honestly expect some nut job Pos who has decided to massacre children is going to turn in his 30 round mags because they are banned?
Thanks for the explanation. As far as mags go, no I don’t think a criminal would turn them in. I dont think the govt would even try to come after them, I would suspect they would just outlaw the sale of them going forward making it illegal to sell them commercially or privately. I would expect criminals could still find a way to get their hands on them through nefarious means from the existing stockpiles but at a price. I do think there is a reasonable chance it could impact the ability of an 18 year old kid to get his hands on them while he is planning to shoot up a school. If he chooses 10 or 20 round mags because he can’t easily get 30, 40, 60+ round mags then that’s something. It’s really not much but it’s better than doing nothing. I was going to start a new thread but I’ve wasted enough time with this today. We are likely all set in our opinions. PM can carry whatever opinion of me they wish because I believe it’s our responsibility to do something. Doing nothing has not worked and I’m tired of seeing kids die because we can’t even agree on some common sense regulations.
Time to climb on the soapbox and ramble a bit...
Here's the kicker. There is not a single person who has posted on this thread that doesn't think something needs done. If I'm wrong, anyone, feel free to correct me.
But... doing "something" just for the sake of doing something is idiotic. A massive waste of time and resources. That's all bans are, doing something so you can say you did it.
And it's been done befe, being done right now all over the world, and it doesn't work. Never has, never will.
ITs been written more than once, the request to show how any "common sense" gun regulations would have affected any scenario. And the result is the same, it doesnt. Without magic, it doesn't work. There are 42 bajilion guns out there right now, and 1 bajilion bajilion mags. They exist, that cat is out of the bag.
If a ban went into affect tomorrow and all guns were banned, and all law abiding people turned in every single gun, there is still a bajilion guns out there, 100% owned by people willing to go into a school and murder children. By doing "something" you have punished the innocent and affected not at all the piles of dead children. Not 1 has been saved. And in all likelihood substantially more will die because those truly bad people are now completely unfettered and can do what they want without concerning themselves that they may be stopped. The only way to make a ban work, poof, magic, ALL GUNS are gone.
There is a reason that mass shootings occur in "gun free zones". The shooters are going to kill and THEY DO NOT want a fight. In every instance where they end up in a fight, lives are saved. And as awful as it sounds, in many cases the only reason there are survivors at all in many shootings is because the shooter chose to be a shooter. Put other tools in his hands,no survivors.
Take the batman guy, take away his guns, take away the body armor and give him a 5g can of gas, a road flare and a length of chain. Odds are 100% casualty rate in the theatre + more in each adjoining.
The problem with discussing ways to fix "gun violence" is that there are 2 words in that phrase, and gun is not the important one. Taking the tool away from the violent doesn't make them peaceful, it just makes them use another tool.
Laws are by their very nature, reactive. That's why murderers still mirder, rapist still rapes. Once they're caught they can be removed,but first they have to commit the act. Outlaw guns, guns will still be used.they can be removed after they are found, but by then the kids are already dead. And by seizing 1 after the fact, it's is going to be a loooooong time before they're all gone. And it won't matter.
Until something is done to address the human element, nothing will change. I'm not going to go on a rampage. Taking my stuff from me will save 0 lives. But someone can say they did something if they do and all they have to do is victimize me to make themselves feel better. And the bad people will still be bad people, and not be affected at all.
I don't claim to have the solution, but I can easily see what won't work.