Whats gonna happen if they ban AR's?
- Thread starter pyscodog
- Start date
SlickerThanSnot
New member
the odds of any one of us, even you chz, getting maimed or killed tomorrow by some idiot texting behind a steering wheel is off the charts compared with getting maimed or killed by a whacko with an ar15 and a duffle bag full of 30 round mags.
wonder when they will ban texting while driving and how they will enforce it.
wonder when they will ban texting while driving and how they will enforce it.
the next mass shooter already has the gun(s) and magazines that will be used.
with that in mind, how do you want to deal with that fact? anyone, not asking any specific person. this is the problem facing us right now.
BG checks, gun & magazine bans, waiting periods, none of that matters to this person as they already have the weapons.
with that in mind, how do you want to deal with that fact? anyone, not asking any specific person. this is the problem facing us right now.
BG checks, gun & magazine bans, waiting periods, none of that matters to this person as they already have the weapons.
NdIndy
New member
Originally Posted By: chzOriginally Posted By: NdIndyOriginally Posted By: chzIf I made a bad or even questionable judgement call using deadly force or had an accidental discharge you bet your [beeep] I would prefer to be a LEO instead of Joe Public. Look at all the high profile bad police shootings. “I thought he was reaching for a gun” isn’t going to fly nearly as well for Joe Public. Please don’t make me waste my time pulling up all the bad shootings from the last few years.. LEO are put in a tough spot having to enforce the law and also protect themselves. There is a considerable amount of leeway given to them when they feel threatened. I suspect the reason they are never prosecuted is because it’s a slippery slope. If you start prosecuting officers who make poor decisions and take lives it could create an atmosphere where officers are too concerned about making the wrong call and it could cost them their lives. It’s not ok for an officer to feel threatened and not react the way they feel they should for fear of making a bad decision and going to jail.
It’s a tough job with a world of responsibility. I have nothing but respect for LEOs, especially now that they are under such scrutiny because of the actions of a few.
Nope, not even close to correct. In court a regular person is held to the "reasonable man" standard. In laymen terms would your average guy with no training, in the same situation come to the same conclusion. That's a really low bar to cross.
LE otoh is held to the "reasonable officer" standard. In laymen again, would your average officer, with training and experience, make the same decision. A much higher bar.
In 1, "I was scared" is a legitimate defense.
As far as mags, do you honestly expect some nut job Pos who has decided to massacre children is going to turn in his 30 round mags because they are banned?
Thanks for the explanation. As far as mags go, no I don’t think a criminal would turn them in. I dont think the govt would even try to come after them, I would suspect they would just outlaw the sale of them going forward making it illegal to sell them commercially or privately. I would expect criminals could still find a way to get their hands on them through nefarious means from the existing stockpiles but at a price. I do think there is a reasonable chance it could impact the ability of an 18 year old kid to get his hands on them while he is planning to shoot up a school. If he chooses 10 or 20 round mags because he can’t easily get 30, 40, 60+ round mags then that’s something. It’s really not much but it’s better than doing nothing. I was going to start a new thread but I’ve wasted enough time with this today. We are likely all set in our opinions. PM can carry whatever opinion of me they wish because I believe it’s our responsibility to do something. Doing nothing has not worked and I’m tired of seeing kids die because we can’t even agree on some common sense regulations.
Time to climb on the soapbox and ramble a bit...
Here's the kicker. There is not a single person who has posted on this thread that doesn't think something needs done. If I'm wrong, anyone, feel free to correct me.
But... doing "something" just for the sake of doing something is idiotic. A massive waste of time and resources. That's all bans are, doing something so you can say you did it.
And it's been done befe, being done right now all over the world, and it doesn't work. Never has, never will.
ITs been written more than once, the request to show how any "common sense" gun regulations would have affected any scenario. And the result is the same, it doesnt. Without magic, it doesn't work. There are 42 bajilion guns out there right now, and 1 bajilion bajilion mags. They exist, that cat is out of the bag.
If a ban went into affect tomorrow and all guns were banned, and all law abiding people turned in every single gun, there is still a bajilion guns out there, 100% owned by people willing to go into a school and murder children. By doing "something" you have punished the innocent and affected not at all the piles of dead children. Not 1 has been saved. And in all likelihood substantially more will die because those truly bad people are now completely unfettered and can do what they want without concerning themselves that they may be stopped. The only way to make a ban work, poof, magic, ALL GUNS are gone.
There is a reason that mass shootings occur in "gun free zones". The shooters are going to kill and THEY DO NOT want a fight. In every instance where they end up in a fight, lives are saved. And as awful as it sounds, in many cases the only reason there are survivors at all in many shootings is because the shooter chose to be a shooter. Put other tools in his hands,no survivors.
Take the batman guy, take away his guns, take away the body armor and give him a 5g can of gas, a road flare and a length of chain. Odds are 100% casualty rate in the theatre + more in each adjoining.
The problem with discussing ways to fix "gun violence" is that there are 2 words in that phrase, and gun is not the important one. Taking the tool away from the violent doesn't make them peaceful, it just makes them use another tool.
Laws are by their very nature, reactive. That's why murderers still mirder, rapist still rapes. Once they're caught they can be removed,but first they have to commit the act. Outlaw guns, guns will still be used.they can be removed after they are found, but by then the kids are already dead. And by seizing 1 after the fact, it's is going to be a loooooong time before they're all gone. And it won't matter.
Until something is done to address the human element, nothing will change. I'm not going to go on a rampage. Taking my stuff from me will save 0 lives. But someone can say they did something if they do and all they have to do is victimize me to make themselves feel better. And the bad people will still be bad people, and not be affected at all.
I don't claim to have the solution, but I can easily see what won't work.
It’s a tough job with a world of responsibility. I have nothing but respect for LEOs, especially now that they are under such scrutiny because of the actions of a few.
Nope, not even close to correct. In court a regular person is held to the "reasonable man" standard. In laymen terms would your average guy with no training, in the same situation come to the same conclusion. That's a really low bar to cross.
LE otoh is held to the "reasonable officer" standard. In laymen again, would your average officer, with training and experience, make the same decision. A much higher bar.
In 1, "I was scared" is a legitimate defense.
As far as mags, do you honestly expect some nut job Pos who has decided to massacre children is going to turn in his 30 round mags because they are banned?
Thanks for the explanation. As far as mags go, no I don’t think a criminal would turn them in. I dont think the govt would even try to come after them, I would suspect they would just outlaw the sale of them going forward making it illegal to sell them commercially or privately. I would expect criminals could still find a way to get their hands on them through nefarious means from the existing stockpiles but at a price. I do think there is a reasonable chance it could impact the ability of an 18 year old kid to get his hands on them while he is planning to shoot up a school. If he chooses 10 or 20 round mags because he can’t easily get 30, 40, 60+ round mags then that’s something. It’s really not much but it’s better than doing nothing. I was going to start a new thread but I’ve wasted enough time with this today. We are likely all set in our opinions. PM can carry whatever opinion of me they wish because I believe it’s our responsibility to do something. Doing nothing has not worked and I’m tired of seeing kids die because we can’t even agree on some common sense regulations.
Time to climb on the soapbox and ramble a bit...
Here's the kicker. There is not a single person who has posted on this thread that doesn't think something needs done. If I'm wrong, anyone, feel free to correct me.
But... doing "something" just for the sake of doing something is idiotic. A massive waste of time and resources. That's all bans are, doing something so you can say you did it.
And it's been done befe, being done right now all over the world, and it doesn't work. Never has, never will.
ITs been written more than once, the request to show how any "common sense" gun regulations would have affected any scenario. And the result is the same, it doesnt. Without magic, it doesn't work. There are 42 bajilion guns out there right now, and 1 bajilion bajilion mags. They exist, that cat is out of the bag.
If a ban went into affect tomorrow and all guns were banned, and all law abiding people turned in every single gun, there is still a bajilion guns out there, 100% owned by people willing to go into a school and murder children. By doing "something" you have punished the innocent and affected not at all the piles of dead children. Not 1 has been saved. And in all likelihood substantially more will die because those truly bad people are now completely unfettered and can do what they want without concerning themselves that they may be stopped. The only way to make a ban work, poof, magic, ALL GUNS are gone.
There is a reason that mass shootings occur in "gun free zones". The shooters are going to kill and THEY DO NOT want a fight. In every instance where they end up in a fight, lives are saved. And as awful as it sounds, in many cases the only reason there are survivors at all in many shootings is because the shooter chose to be a shooter. Put other tools in his hands,no survivors.
Take the batman guy, take away his guns, take away the body armor and give him a 5g can of gas, a road flare and a length of chain. Odds are 100% casualty rate in the theatre + more in each adjoining.
The problem with discussing ways to fix "gun violence" is that there are 2 words in that phrase, and gun is not the important one. Taking the tool away from the violent doesn't make them peaceful, it just makes them use another tool.
Laws are by their very nature, reactive. That's why murderers still mirder, rapist still rapes. Once they're caught they can be removed,but first they have to commit the act. Outlaw guns, guns will still be used.they can be removed after they are found, but by then the kids are already dead. And by seizing 1 after the fact, it's is going to be a loooooong time before they're all gone. And it won't matter.
Until something is done to address the human element, nothing will change. I'm not going to go on a rampage. Taking my stuff from me will save 0 lives. But someone can say they did something if they do and all they have to do is victimize me to make themselves feel better. And the bad people will still be bad people, and not be affected at all.
I don't claim to have the solution, but I can easily see what won't work.
masshunter
Active member
The real enemy of our rights are those among us who will give up something because they don't like or "need" it. In the 1970's it was handguns, "Saturday night specials". We even had a ballot question to ban handguns in Mass. in 1976. I was pretty involved in fighting it, and remember going around to gun clubs to drum up money to fight it, and the negative response from some gun owners "this is a trap club we don't shoot pistols here", and on and on. Well now its AR's and 30 round magazines, give them that and they'll ask for something else. chz, whatever you feel is right for you , do it, but shut the heck up. Don't be like that A-hole on youtube cutting his AR in half. Give up the 30 round mags, and like NY they will come for the 10 round mags.
Flesh Eater
New member
From the posts you've made CHZ, you sound like a Canadian who became an American. That's not a dig, it's just my perception.
I don't NEED justification to own an AR-15, or a 100 round drum, or a bump-fire stock. That's not the point.
In all honesty, and I don't care how this sounds, the 2nd amendment is there for one major purpose, and that's to keep our government from turning tyrannical. Period. The founding fathers knew of the dangers government could present and armed our citizens appropriately. No one in Germany in 1937 realized that in just a few years they'd be treated like cattle, and I'm not talking about just Jews. Homosexuals, mentally challenged, Jews, Polls, everyone was rounded up and murdered. Bet they wish they'd had some artillery to keep that from escalating. Instead, they handed their defenses over and trusted their government.
Sorry, but the 2nd amendment and the weapons we possess do not need justification. Ever.
I don't NEED justification to own an AR-15, or a 100 round drum, or a bump-fire stock. That's not the point.
In all honesty, and I don't care how this sounds, the 2nd amendment is there for one major purpose, and that's to keep our government from turning tyrannical. Period. The founding fathers knew of the dangers government could present and armed our citizens appropriately. No one in Germany in 1937 realized that in just a few years they'd be treated like cattle, and I'm not talking about just Jews. Homosexuals, mentally challenged, Jews, Polls, everyone was rounded up and murdered. Bet they wish they'd had some artillery to keep that from escalating. Instead, they handed their defenses over and trusted their government.
Sorry, but the 2nd amendment and the weapons we possess do not need justification. Ever.
Flesh Eater
New member
Originally Posted By: GCNot one word of this gun control debate solves the issue of mass murder.
It never will. There's no solution to it. People have been killing each other since the dawn of time. If we make firearms harder to get, they'll get more creative and I'll guarantee more people will die. Timothy McVeigh didn't use an AR. That's the last thing I want to see happening in schools across America.
It never will. There's no solution to it. People have been killing each other since the dawn of time. If we make firearms harder to get, they'll get more creative and I'll guarantee more people will die. Timothy McVeigh didn't use an AR. That's the last thing I want to see happening in schools across America.
Nonnieselman
New member
Originally Posted By: chzOriginally Posted By: DesertRamOriginally Posted By: chzIt kind of helps make the point of trying to outlaw high capacity mags in order to help thwart the effectivess of maniacs shooting children in schools and churches.
Magazine restrictions won't stop school shootings, or even reduce the body count to a significant degree. Nor will they have an impact on other mass shootings.
Any degree is significant when it comes to human life, especially children. You have no idea if it would have an impact. Forcing a shooter to reload every ten rounds absolutely has an impact on how effective they will be. Those reloads give victims at least an opportunity for flight or fight. It would also give responding officers better odds. Think how cumbersome it would be to try and carry hundreds of rounds in ten round mags.
No disrespect, but you think that if a law goes into effect and bans all magazines over 10 rounds that a criminal is going to be using 10 rd magazines to commit a crime?
Wonder how many 30 round magazines are out there? They aren't going to disappear all of a sudden because of a Law.
Again, look at Chicago.
Some of the most strict firearm laws but how many crimes are committed with a firearm? Getting worse every year.
Again ill repeat myself. Its not a inanimate object to blame, its a people problem.
Magazine restrictions won't stop school shootings, or even reduce the body count to a significant degree. Nor will they have an impact on other mass shootings.
Any degree is significant when it comes to human life, especially children. You have no idea if it would have an impact. Forcing a shooter to reload every ten rounds absolutely has an impact on how effective they will be. Those reloads give victims at least an opportunity for flight or fight. It would also give responding officers better odds. Think how cumbersome it would be to try and carry hundreds of rounds in ten round mags.
No disrespect, but you think that if a law goes into effect and bans all magazines over 10 rounds that a criminal is going to be using 10 rd magazines to commit a crime?
Wonder how many 30 round magazines are out there? They aren't going to disappear all of a sudden because of a Law.
Again, look at Chicago.
Some of the most strict firearm laws but how many crimes are committed with a firearm? Getting worse every year.
Again ill repeat myself. Its not a inanimate object to blame, its a people problem.
Last edited:
3D printers
While I TOTALLY agree that its a people problem. Try convincing the anti's that. I been un-friended, called stupid,told I'm wrong,was even told I love my guns more than my kid while trying to make people see the other side of this issue. Heck I don't even own an AR but it doesn't bother me that you do.
spotstalkshoot
Well-known member
Easiest strategy in any situation, split the team, win in the end. Pull the weak off first then attack what's left.
you folks with ar's, be very afraid...
spotstalkshoot
Well-known member
George Soros and Jeff Seeley, where the money starts from, attacking the constitution.
Foxpro.223
Well-known member
Nothing would happen except for the huge black market that would ensue and only the criminal element, politicians, and eliti$t$ of all type$ would have them.
The football game and jersey shore would come back on television and most Americans would be more focused on that while eating chicken wings, drinking beer, and smoking marijuana to really care much. Perhaps, a breaking news story would come on during the commercial break telling of another shooting and the entire cycle would repeat once again... The politicians, commie libtard special interest groups, and the propaganda networks would be having a hayday with it as it would be publicized for days on end in one big loop over and over and over again and the politicians would be telling you that bolt action rifles and single shot .22s need to be banned next as they would continue on about how pro 2A they are but, you need to give up more of your freedoms and liberties because there are limits to your god given rights... the docile dumbed down Americans would then believe it is the commonsense thing to do and beg for the cronies in DC and especially the states to do something believing it is for the greater good. The same agenda would continue to repeat itself.
The brits gave their guns up and now their neighborhoods are being flooded with muslims and they get swat teamed and arrested for typing about it on facebook.
If one believes the deep state to be corrupt now... just wait till they strip the American people of their means of self preservation and defense.
“Be not intimidated...nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice.” john Adams
The football game and jersey shore would come back on television and most Americans would be more focused on that while eating chicken wings, drinking beer, and smoking marijuana to really care much. Perhaps, a breaking news story would come on during the commercial break telling of another shooting and the entire cycle would repeat once again... The politicians, commie libtard special interest groups, and the propaganda networks would be having a hayday with it as it would be publicized for days on end in one big loop over and over and over again and the politicians would be telling you that bolt action rifles and single shot .22s need to be banned next as they would continue on about how pro 2A they are but, you need to give up more of your freedoms and liberties because there are limits to your god given rights... the docile dumbed down Americans would then believe it is the commonsense thing to do and beg for the cronies in DC and especially the states to do something believing it is for the greater good. The same agenda would continue to repeat itself.
The brits gave their guns up and now their neighborhoods are being flooded with muslims and they get swat teamed and arrested for typing about it on facebook.
If one believes the deep state to be corrupt now... just wait till they strip the American people of their means of self preservation and defense.
“Be not intimidated...nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice.” john Adams
Nightvisionary
New member
I know several people in California that are simply done with attempts at complying with the newer gun laws. They tried at first but as the laws became more and more draconian they just decided they were done. We would see the same thing on a national level.
Foxpro.223
Well-known member
it's long been said that the criminals will just smuggle the magazines in with the drugs.
of course, now we live in the age of the 3D printer, so that's no longer necessary.
but the fact is that they're really just sheet metal boxes, pretty easy to make in a home garage with a few basic tools. so people who want them will find ways to have them, regardless.
of course, now we live in the age of the 3D printer, so that's no longer necessary.
but the fact is that they're really just sheet metal boxes, pretty easy to make in a home garage with a few basic tools. so people who want them will find ways to have them, regardless.
Why heck my elder sister has basically called me a blood thirsty murderer and my niece rattles off the same nonsense. But then I don't take it to heart coming from a mom with adult coloring books and a kid just out of mom's basement at age 27. Who thinks Hillary cares about women and she was robbed of the Presidency.
T2G
But the whole mess does look like its going to cause a few problems down the road.
T2G
But the whole mess does look like its going to cause a few problems down the road.
Last edited: