Vmax woes

Originally Posted By: BailOriginally Posted By: Robinhood21Originally Posted By: btech29Vmax out of a 223 equals lost coyotes.
55 vmax is all I shoot out of my main calling rig and have never lost a dog. The only time I've had to put another in one was a bad shot on my part.

Then you haven't shot enough of them.

Yep!

Originally Posted By: DAAI have just never been impressed with .22 Vmax for coyote (6mm, little different story). Killed a few dozen coyote with the 55 Vmax out of a .22-250 when they first came out, decided they sucked and relegated them to varmint poppage duty. Later, about 20 years ago, tried them again in a .223, killed about one dozen, even less impressed. That was pretty much the end of me using the Vmax for coyote.

Have witnessed maybe about a hundred coyote total shot with the .22 Vmax, including my own. I know a lot of guys have a lot of luck and a lot of good to say, but for myself, truly, the most consistently bad .22 coyote bullet I have any personal experience with is the Vmax. Be the last bullet on my shelf I'd choose for coyote. Would take the B-tip over it all day every day, and in fact, that's what I'm using in a .223 this year. Not overly impressed with that combo either, but close to 40 coyotes the last two months and not a splash yet so I'm going to stick with it.

But I haven't used the Vmax in 20 years except for a few occasions shooting borrowed/sponsor guns/sponsor ammo. If they have gotten even worse since then, well...

But for varmint poppage, they were then and still are awesome. They were a lot cheaper than B-tips back in the day too. I have used over 20,000 .22 Vmax on colony varmints. I don't do much of that type of shooting anymore, but still use mostly Vmax when I do. I totally avoid them for coyote duty though. Have been avoiding them for a long time.

Just me.

- DAA


Perfectly typed response and my feelings exactly. You are much more eloquent in your response than I.
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I just loaded 57 rounds of .223 for my Ruger American Rifle Predator. 23.6 grans of H335/WC844 with the 60 gr Vmax bullet.

Super accurate - at least by my loose standards. It seems everything I read about the Vmax was that it was the shiznit for coyotes. Until, of course, this thread.

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ETA: These are 60 gr Vmax bullets I bought probably over 15 years or so ago.
 
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Whew I sat here and read the whole topic and the one thing no one said anything about was the velocity of the bullets on impact.Years ago when I started to reload I went for as much speed as I could get and still shoot accurately.Then i bought a 300 Win Mag cranked them up and with Sierra 165 grain bullets, they blew up on impact,first deer had a fist size entry hole same on an Elk.So I called Sierra and asked what the [beeep] was wrong with their bullets.When I told them the speed I was pushing them they said slow them down they are made for 30-06 speeds not 300 mag speeds. So my question has any one called Hornady and asked minimum and max speeds and twist the v-max is designed to preform it's best at? Not muzzle velocity but velocity at time of impact,as it will make a big difference in bullet performance.
 
So far , the 60gr V-max has done just fine for me in the .223. I suspect a lot of the failures and splashes are in high speed (22/250, 22 Swift) with lighter bullets like the 40 & 50 gr V-max.
 
Other than the 58gr V-max in 6mm I stay away from the V-max for coyote hunting. I hunt for pelts 90% of the time, I try to avoid messy skinning jobs as much as I can. Head shots, broken front legs, big blowout either splashes going in or big exits are plain messy.

I try and aim for the heart, no matter which direction, angling toward me I try to slip it in between the Brest bone and front leg, going away just behind the diaphragm angling to the heart, broadside just behind the leg. Most of the blood stays in the chest cavity and a wad of paper towel keeps it there.

52gr Speer FB HP's have worked very well for me as do 40gr NBT's run fast.

Here's one with a little blood leakage, DRT and a nice one to skin. That's about as far back as I want to be on a broadside.


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Some of you guys crack me up. They are called V-Max they were designed for varmits, if they were for coyotes they would be called C-Max. Get a hollow point or a soft point.
 
Originally Posted By: herbieSome of you guys crack me up. They are called V-Max they were designed for varmits, if they were for coyotes they would be called C-Max. Get a hollow point or a soft point.
D-Max for deer
E-Max for elk
M-Max for moose (or mice?)
H-Max for hogs
F-Max for fox

anybody should be able to figure this stuff out.
 
Z-Max for zebras


When I could use lead bullets on coyotes the 55 gr V-Max worked great on coyotes for me out of my 22-250.

The 75 gr V-Max also worked great on coyotes out of my 243 Win.
 
My earlier post might have been a little simplistic. The point I was trying to make is that a VMax bullet is not designed to be a fur friendly. If you have seen a prairie dog spattered with one at 3800fps you will know what I mean. Hornady makes hollow points and soft points that will pretty much stay in the body especially at a little lower speed, but where is the fun in that if you can't bash Hornady as some of you seem to like to do.
 
personal experience with 50GR VMAX on coyotes is not really good. Shooting at 3340 FPS and splash, external damage great, but, not always lethal. Did better with PSP. Now use 60GR Spire points with much greater results. Works real good on deer as well. JMHO.
 
Contrary to most opinion here, my hunting buddy has pretty good results with the 50 gr. V-Max shooting them at about 3,100 fps. No, he hasn't killed hundreds with them, but he has killed about 75 and the 50 V-Max has served him well.
 
I think that the key takeaway from this discussion is the relationship between velocity and expansion. My personal experience with the V-max in my early days of coyote hunting was pretty good. I was running factory Hornady loads out of my 16in .223 and LOVED that combo. But something changed and I started getting runners. While investigating the problem I found a variance in weight from bullet to bullet. So I drifted away from the Vmax. My partner, AzBushman ran V-max's out of his .204 with good results, then he too started getting runners. We found out that in the .204 the velocities had gone up. When we went to a 45gr sp, we had DRT's once again.

I don't keep coyote pelts in our neck of the woods. So damage doesn't bother me. I don't want runners. It seemed like the 204's worked fine if we slowed them up a bit. Recently a friend tried the 55 V-max's out of his .223 and we got some better results. So maybe they worked out the quality control on them, so i might try them out again.

I think that sharing information like this helps us all. When one of us sees another's results it could help explain our own results. Not so much a matter of, I am right and you are wrong, just informative.
 
My Ruger American Predator in .223 is now 2-2 against skunks. Got my 2nd one this morning. *Probably* the mate of the one I got 2-3 weeks ago.

This time the pill was homegrown: 60 grn Vmax over 23.6 grns of WC844/H335 and Remington SR primers. One shot at 50 yards or so at 7 am this morning. Didn't even twitch. No pics 'cause I didn't want the scent on me.
 
I still have a prejudice toward the 60gr V-max as it is longer and gonna punch deeper than the lighter V-max bullets. Being heavier it also is going slower and less likely to splat. The few coyotes I have hit with them pretty much opened up (not fur friendly). I am reducing calf and fawn killers so I do not care about furs.
 
You simply cant get any better then the 50 gr SUPERFORMANCE V-max in a 22-250...the 53 gr SUPERFORMANCE in the .223 the 58 gr or 87 gr in the 243...the 87 in the 6mm creedmoor the 95 gr vmax for the 6.5 Creed...There is not a better bullet. I put more on video in a year then most kill, I cant load anything better then HORNADY produces and In all the filming, hunting, contests it has never been the ammo that caused an issue....V MAXS ROCK.
 
Every time there is a discussion on this board about bullets blowing up on coyotes, it is the V max involved.

There is a relationship between twist rate, speed, and distance in regards to surface explosions.

7 twist AR's are going to spin bullets to the ragged edge of jacket failure. That same bullet that blows up in a 7 Twist may perform flawlessly in a 12 or 14 twist.

I suspect that the 7 & 8 twist AR's are the key to 50 and 55g V max splashes, and I have not heard of a 60g V max blowing up on the surface. I am not sure how they would hang together in my22/250 AI at 3700 or 22-243 AI at 4000 out of a 14T barrel...I shoot a 60g Sierra Hp.

Having said that, I have never seen Nosler or Sierra Bullets(HP or lead tip) blow up on the surface of a coyote, nor Berger or a custom bullet built on a J4 jacket in 22 caliber.

We should remember that lot to lot bullet variances can be huge at times. Lead from the foundry maybe softer than was ordered, and jacket thickness or alloy can vary as it is ordered from the foundry.

I have been calling long enough to have called in bears, lions, bull elk, and deer. Some come in stomping, growling, snorting ready for a fight as they think that a predator has hold of their young, or they are ready to eat you. For this reason, I find it prudent to not use the most explosive bullet on the market, and tend to go for a bullet of a little stouter construction.

I have never had the 55g Hornady soft point with the cannalure fail me at any speed, and they are ungodly accurate out of every gun I have ever shot them in. Because the 55g Hornady SP have the cannalure, some guys think the 55g Hornady SP to be an inaccurate bullet. You should see how my brothers 9T Bushmasters group these hornady 55 soft point.

I am not sure that 250 yards and under that BC means squat in any 55g bullet including the Sierra 55g Semi point that is an unbelievable accurate bullet, especially AR's with considerable bullet jump to the lands.
 
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Originally Posted By: ackleymanEvery time there is a discussion on this board about bullets blowing up on coyotes, it is the V max involved.

There is a relationship between twist rate, speed, and distance in regards to surface explosions.

7 twist AR's are going to spin bullets to the ragged edge of jacket failure. That same bullet that blows up in a 7 Twist may perform flawlessly in a 12 or 14 twist.

I suspect that the 7 & 8 twist AR's are the key to 50 and 55g V max splashes, and I have not heard of a 60g V max blowing up on the surface. I am not sure how they would hang together in my22/250 AI at 3700 or 22-243 AI at 4000 out of a 14T barrel...I shoot a 60g Sierra Hp.

Having said that, I have never seen Nosler or Sierra Bullets(HP or lead tip) blow up on the surface of a coyote, nor Berger or a custom bullet built on a J4 jacket in 22 caliber.

We should remember that lot to lot bullet variances can be huge at times. Lead from the foundry maybe softer than was ordered, and jacket thickness or alloy can vary as it is ordered from the foundry.

I have been calling long enough to have called in bears, lions, bull elk, and deer. Some come in stomping, growling, snorting ready for a fight as they think that a predator has hold of their young, or they are ready to eat you. For this reason, I find it prudent to not use the most explosive bullet on the market, and tend to go for a bullet of a little stouter construction.

I have never had the 55g Hornady soft point with the cannalure fail me at any speed, and they are ungodly accurate out of every gun I have ever shot them in. Because the 55g Hornady SP have the cannalure, some guys think the 55g Hornady SP to be an inaccurate bullet. You should see how my brothers 9T Bushmasters group these hornady 55 soft point.

I am not sure that 250 yards and under that BC means squat in any 55g bullet including the Sierra 55g Semi point that is an unbelievable accurate bullet, especially AR's with considerable bullet jump to the lands.

I agree 100% that the SP is a VERY accurate bullet. I have seen their accuracy in several caliber offerings, both factory and handloads. I personally run 150gr SP's in my .308 now because they are so accurate.

As for "surface splashing" and the Vmax, I have not experienced that. My issue with the Vmax was the inconsistency in certain calibers. I think you nailed it when you talk about the variances in bullet construction and manufacture and I think that is probably what was going on with the Vmax. When we weighed the Vmax's and found variances of several grains, you just cannot expect consistent performance.

I stuck with the Vmax for a long time just to be sure that it wasn't bad shot placement, or good old Murphy's law causing the problem. I can say that the most recent experiences that I have had with the Vmax are similar to my earliest days of using them. I am hoping that the quality control issues have been resolved in them.
 
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