savage 22-250 reloading issue

varminter185

varminter185

New member
OK so I did load development for this rifle, 5 years ago. Beginner mistakes and have completely unusable data, fast forward, to last month finally live somewhere I can shoot regularly.. the remainder of my bullets that printed 5 in a nice little clover leaf ran out not before I pulled 3 at random, determine that it was 38 grains of blc2 behind a 36 gun varmint grenade, I make up a bunch more and now I'm all over the paper and back at square 1, what could be the issue I only used 2 types of powder then it was extruded varget, and ball blc2 so I know that for sure, should I try again with the blc2 and toy with neck tension? Neck size only, trimmed new loads I have been trying are causing sticky bolt lift , (no visible case pressure signs that I know about flattened or bulging primers etc ) just sticky bolt chronograph was saying 4400+ fps much to high for my liking.

It's a 26" heavy barrel free floated, 1:12 twist, I used to like this rifle but I'm feed up at this point!
 
Originally Posted By: FurhunterNo visible signs of pressure huh?

The sticky bolt lift and 4400 FPS isn't bouncing off a brain cell somewhere?

Hey Fuzzy... you made me laugh out loud!!
 

First of all, you need to go back completely to square one and start from the ground up.

Secondly, keep records. It is absolute nonsense to load up a bunch, go to the range and when something falls together then disassemble rounds and try to figure out what you loaded.

Third, keep records. That way you KNOW what you loaded.

Fourth, trust your chronograph until you prove it to be erroneous beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Five; STOP shooting anything after the first round with sticky bolt lift. You are well above designed cartridge pressure, and are asking for trouble, if not a blown up rifle.

And yes, "Keep Records" is in there twice; it is in there twice for a reason...
 
Originally Posted By: varminter185OK so I did load development for this rifle, 5 years ago. Beginner mistakes and have completely unusable data, fast forward, to last month finally live somewhere I can shoot regularly.. the remainder of my bullets that printed 5 in a nice little clover leaf ran out not before I pulled 3 at random, determine that it was 38 grains of blc2 behind a 36 gun varmint grenade, I make up a bunch more and now I'm all over the paper and back at square 1, what could be the issue I only used 2 types of powder then it was extruded varget, and ball blc2 so I know that for sure, should I try again with the blc2 and toy with neck tension? Neck size only, trimmed new loads I have been trying are causing sticky bolt lift , (no visible case pressure signs that I know about flattened or bulging primers etc ) just sticky bolt chronograph was saying 4400+ fps much to high for my liking.

It's a 26" heavy barrel free floated, 1:12 twist, I used to like this rifle but I'm feed up at this point!

What is "toy with neck tension"?? and how do you do that.

No pressure signs - are you friggin' kidding. What are you waiting for, the bolt to weld itself into the receiver?

Buy a loading manual and read it.

Twice!!

Maybe once more.
 
I think something was lost in translation, my current practices are sound, my records are NOW detailed enough to replicate to the .001th seating depth powder,charge, etc.... what I was referring too was my past records, tearing apart bullets that I made previosly was only to determine the the powder type, only used 2 at that time, and they were visually different, im overly cautious when reloading .... so to me sticky bolt is not being able to flip the bolt with on finger and slide it back. 4400. Was at the top range for fps in that round...the lack of visual signs that im referring to is what I call primer flow. Where the firing pin strike is nearly eliminated, or shiny spots on the back of the case where the head stamp is...I wouldnt shoot a round that was unsafe, I restarted from square one, my scope mount was loose, found that after my post. I like this board but the automatic resorting to insulting someones intelligence and the blanket read a reloading manual is ignorant at best, especially when you dont know the person, or basing a reply based on assumptions...not one person suggested to check the scope which would explain why a previous pet load was now all over the paper....
 
Originally Posted By: varminter185I think something was lost in translation, my current practices are sound, my records are NOW detailed enough to replicate to the .001th seating depth powder,charge, etc.... what I was referring too was my past records, tearing apart bullets that I made previosly was only to determine the the powder type, only used 2 at that time, and they were visually different, im overly cautious when reloading .... so to me sticky bolt is not being able to flip the bolt with on finger and slide it back. 4400. Was at the top range for fps in that round...the lack of visual signs that im referring to is what I call primer flow. Where the firing pin strike is nearly eliminated, or shiny spots on the back of the case where the head stamp is...I wouldnt shoot a round that was unsafe, I restarted from square one, my scope mount was loose, found that after my post. I like this board but the automatic resorting to insulting someones intelligence and the blanket read a reloading manual is ignorant at best, especially when you dont know the person, or basing a reply based on assumptions...not one person suggested to check the scope which would explain why a previous pet load was now all over the paper....

If you are going to discuss reloading with other people, you would be well advised to adopt the common language so others know what you are talking about.

The rest of the world has a very different definition of "sticky bolt" than you do. Lift a bolt with the pin down... with one finger??? Whatcha shooting??? None of my "cock on opening" bolt guns can be opened with a one finger lift.
frown.gif


It is not our job to get to know you, it is your job to describe your situation to the rest of us the common terminology that WE speak.
 
Good point catshooter, my girlfriend says the same thing, I do have my own language for mostthings. My apologies I should have thought about that. so definition, sticky bolt to me is moderately more force than normally is needed to open the bolt on a fired factory round, not excessive where you have to ream on it. I never work around a max load, that's why 4400 was to much for my taste it was at the upper limits for pressure (my standard) so I went back to the beginning, new rifile with tight mounts
 
Originally Posted By: varminter185I think something was lost in translation, my current practices are sound, my records are NOW detailed enough to replicate to the .001th seating depth powder,charge, etc.... what I was referring too was my past records, tearing apart bullets that I made previosly was only to determine the the powder type, only used 2 at that time, and they were visually different, im overly cautious when reloading .... so to me sticky bolt is not being able to flip the bolt with on finger and slide it back. 4400. Was at the top range for fps in that round...the lack of visual signs that im referring to is what I call primer flow. Where the firing pin strike is nearly eliminated, or shiny spots on the back of the case where the head stamp is...I wouldnt shoot a round that was unsafe, I restarted from square one, my scope mount was loose, found that after my post. I like this board but the automatic resorting to insulting someones intelligence and the blanket read a reloading manual is ignorant at best, especially when you dont know the person, or basing a reply based on assumptions...not one person suggested to check the scope which would explain why a previous pet load was now all over the paper....



Understood.

However, you are the one who, made a half azz attempt at writing a thread question, then made a even half azzer attempt at correcting the first attempt, then got your heart on your sleeve cuz you sound ignorant on the subject and were called on it.

Forgive those whom you seek knowledge from for pointing out the jest of your point.
 
Not exactly, smokeless, I'm not ignorant on the subject as catshooter pointed out I just need to learn the common language that everyone else uses, not the first time I've been misunderstood. It certainly won't be the last; I apologize for the misunderstanding, it's been a long two days and being irritated with a rifle doesn't help, I reread my post, it's all scattered and ridiculous to say the least... I'll post again later when I can form coherent sentences.
 
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Originally Posted By: varminter185Not exactly, smokeless, I'm not ignorant on the subject as catshooter pointed out I just need to learn the common language that everyone else uses, not the first time I've been misunderstood. It certainly won't be the last; I apologize for the misunderstanding, it's been a long two days and being irritated with a rifle doesn't help, I reread my post, it's all scattered and ridiculous to say the least... I'll post again later when I can form coherent sentences.



With that attitude you will get lots of help here and folks will go the extra mile to help you.

Gather your thoughts. We are here.
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: FurhunterNo visible signs of pressure huh?

The sticky bolt lift and 4400 FPS isn't bouncing off a brain cell somewhere?

Hey Fuzzy... you made me laugh out loud!!

I try to be helpful and patient, I really do but sometimes I just can't help myself. Especially when the writing is right there on the wall.




Varminter185,
It sounds as if its been a while since you've been at the bench. I'd suggest a few things. Some remedial reading on the loading manual would be first. Then I'd pull everything you have. Throw the varmint grenades in the trash, they are not the most accurate bullet out there, most guys don't have much luck with them. If you really want a great bullet, try some 52gr Sierra HPBT Match bullets. Watch your velocities over the chrony and work it up slow.
 
Since your running a tiny pill at 4400fps, it could be that you have burned out the throat(happens a lot to speed freaks). It could be you have a copper fouling problem, 4400fps causes this. It could be that the blc2 is running hotter, as it is notorious for being temperature sensitive. I no longer use it for that reason, great load going to pot on a hot day. I couldn't find any data with blc2 and that bullet, so I have no idea how hot your running. Groups spreading out is a sign that you have pushed past the safe limit(sometimes). Several powders will get you close to that speed, and be easier on your barrel.
 
185...

This is something to remember.

No matter what you call "sticky bolt", and whether it takes one finger or three - ANYTIME the bolt lift changes, it means that brass is flowing, and that is ALWAYS a very badd sign.

 
Still tired and the meds have taken hold, some background on thee rifle new when I got it, probably 300 rounds through it to date. I'm wondering if atmosphere has something to do with the changes in this load...worked up originally at sea level, now at 4k feet above here. I'm on my last lb of blc2 and won't be coming back to it.... the load is in Barnes 4th manual, and guesstimate that I'm getting 37-3800 fps.... the 4400 was a max load and only 10 rounds were run through at that speed. The spread was found in a loose mount on the scope... I appreciate the patience, and looking back I laughed too. Open for suggestions on powder and bullets once the 36 grainers are gone! 1:12 twist in 26"barrel I'm leary of going heavier as I'm not sure it will stabilize.
 
All right guys I have collected myself and looked up data, and racked my brain as to why there were minor pressure signs.... from barnes themselves. They sent me a reply contained data that confirms that I was not even near max load. 36 gr VG FB. IMR 4895... 2.35 coal.... 37.1 grains, minimum, max 40.0C .....

My load....

2.35 coal. Br-2 primers, 36gr VGFB 36 gr IMR 4895.... and 37 gr imr 4895....

Now my scale isnt flawless but the most I have ever seen it go wonky was .3 grains. Thats three tenths. No way it went 4 grains over. I use a powder thrower and weigh every charge as well.
Also every component im not using is closed into a drawer and in the off chance that I mixed up the powder. 37 grains of varget or 4064 is still 1-3 full grains below listed max for those powders.


What is going on with my rifle? Is the chronograph off. Measuring blast instead of bullet? Maybe I need to move it further than 15 feet.
 
Originally Posted By: varminter185All right guys I have collected myself and looked up data, and racked my brain as to why there were minor pressure signs.... from barnes themselves. They sent me a reply contained data that confirms that I was not even near max load. 36 gr VG FB. IMR 4895... 2.35 coal.... 37.1 grains, minimum, max 40.0C .....

My load....

2.35 coal. Br-2 primers, 36gr VGFB 36 gr IMR 4895.... and 37 gr imr 4895....

Now my scale isnt flawless but the most I have ever seen it go wonky was .3 grains. Thats three tenths. No way it went 4 grains over. I use a powder thrower and weigh every charge as well.
Also every component im not using is closed into a drawer and in the off chance that I mixed up the powder. 37 grains of varget or 4064 is still 1-3 full grains below listed max for those powders.


What is going on with my rifle? Is the chronograph off. Measuring blast instead of bullet? Maybe I need to move it further than 15 feet.


Sticky bolt lift was with bl-c, no?

You only mentioned Varget and bl-c in your initial post and that related to the 4400fps chronograph read.

How does 4895 and 4064 come into the picture?
 
Like I said I was all over the place yeaterday, the missing details is my fault, cant expect any help without the information... the blc was a pet load, but all over the paper due to a loose scope base, I also put together some other stuff too, to try out different powders... enter 4895, (this one is the culprit for bolt lift).... and 3 -4 grains under listed max for the 36 grn VG. The 4064 wasnt used but is now in the house. If it was mixed up. Doubtful its an 8lbr. Vs 1 lb of the other. It is still under max load for that powder/bullet. Temperature while shooting was 65... and ammo was in shade. Made sure of that. Hopefully theres some clarity now. And this is moderately coherent
 
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