Ralph Lermayer's "It Is What It Is!" article in Predator Xtreme......

Well said. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif
 
Rusty,

I agree with you for the most part. I have never paid a rancher to hunt predators either.
I DO try & "lock-in" the land with the rancher to insure that they don't just let anyone in there to call....The last thing I want to do is drive 200 miles & end up out there after some 'green pea' has been there with an e-caller educating evrything within 20 miles. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I'm seeing another aspect to the land we used to have readily avl. as well though. Deer hunters.
The people that lease land (mostly in Texas) are now starting to lock in the predators as part of their deer lease & ranchers are saying that because the deer hunter pays to hunt there, they want the predators as well.

I agree with you that it's a problem when predator hunters start offering $$ to hunt on someone's land. The 'old school' ranchers that I grew up around are also becoming a thing of the past as well. They raised cattle, sheep, goats, and oil wells for their $$, but their primary concern was the livestock & wildlife. Therefore they let us in to kill predators.
Now, in many cases the ranches have been sold to city slickers for recreational property, or have transfered to kids that know little to nothing about the family ranch....Or, in lots of cases, sold to subdivide into 20 acre parcels. Not as many of them left for sure.

One other aspect that I'm seeing, especially around bigger towns the the "Tournament Payoff"....

With many competitions paying some pretty big bucks for winning a contest, you have those individuals either contacting landowners to insure they have uncalled land, or actually paying landowners to reserve their land to win specific tournaments.

That can't be going down a good road. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

The way I get & keep property is to know the rancher, educate them about what I do, (Like tell them about how educated preds are WAY harder to kill), respect their property, report anything amiss on the ranch that I find, plus, I let them know how many predators we kill so that they can see the progress.
In addition to that, I make myself avl. when the rancher has a problem with predators killing something on their ranch...even in spring or summer months. (They ranch all year...not just when fur season is going on.) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

With prices we pay for gas, ammo, camo, and truck, rifle, and time figured in scouting the country, well.....it's really quite in investment on our part. But, we enjoy it, so it's worth it to us.

The monkey wrench in some cases is the guy that "outfits" predator hunters. If they are making money on hunters on someone else's land, then the rancher (not from the old school) is sometimes licking his lips while looking at that piece of pie dangling in front of them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Predator hunting has become WAY more popular in the past few years. We all know that...Good land is becoming harder & harder to find & keep.
Numbers of predators may be down from all the pressure in certain areas as well....( I had a honey-hole invaded by an unscrupulous hunter this past year....I won't even call there much anymore. I hope the guy had fun, but was it worth it to him to show the world what a dirt-bag he really was?)

Knowing all that, do we really think that "leases for predators" are that far away? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Not only that, but state controlled limits on numbers of predators killed, & in one's possession...

Plus, the hunting "contests" that pay out large money....
They NEED some regulation as to numbers killed & disposal of dead animals. That sort of thing is leaving a bad taste in the mouths of the general public as well.

Perhaps the time is drawing near that we realize the need to "Police Ourselves"....To set a STANDARD for our sport and have the same rules with conservation and ethics, and goals apply to everyone.
If we don't do it ourselves...someone will do it for us....we may NOT like that outcome either. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Ralph's article raises some interesting points. Is he wrong? Not entirely....It's just the tip of the iceburg of change if we don't start doing something as hunters with a common cause.

These statements reflected above are my opinion only. Your milage may vary.

Barry
 
One of the problems we were encountering in Central MO before I moved from there was the fact that farmers/property owners were leasing "hunting rights" (in total) and you had to chase down the lessee to get permission to enter the property for coyotes, etc..

The rancher where we go for Prairie Dogs in CO had been in the same situation until he re-negotiated the lease to restrict it to the Antelope only, so he could allow the PD shooters to come in...
 
Sounds like he needed some fodder to fill in an article quickly and didn't put much thought into it. Kinda like alot of writers do, L.P. for example. Ramblers!

Sorry, I didn't mean to stereotype anybody with L.P. I don't even know these guys except via their writings and that speaks for itself.

It sells!
 
I assume he's talking L.P. Brezney (sp?)??

He's an interesting guy that has a very commercial feel to him when he write. Always feels like he's shilling for someone.
 
You're right Randy. That is the most politically correct thing I've ever heard said about his writings. "Commercial feel" I almost like that term. But it's him. I hope he gets a good kick back on some of that stuff.

It really doesn't matter if it is verified as true, as long as the manufacturer can use it to push it to the customer. That is commercial feel.
 
I looked at the article yesterday. I had the feeling that what the author was doing was trying to find a way to promote the existence of his magazine. His loyalties may be a bit divided between his readers (subscription dollars) and advertisers (add dollars). Both are needed to keep the business running. Savvy readers like this group can see it for what it is. I can see the OPs point of the possibility of someone thinking its facts and act on them. I just took it for what it was and moved on to more interesting articles. Still this is a good discussion. Since I just saw that Ralph L just joined the forum maybe he will interact more with the hunters of Predator Masters.
 
The editorial "It Is What It Is!" by Mr. Lermayer left me scratching my head too...

Here is the exact quote from Lermayer for those who have not read the article:

"We have access to some of the best hunting in our own backyards and maybe now is the time to get together with a few buddies and offer to "lease" predator hunting rights on some previously "off limits" acreage. Diesel fuel prices and a falling agricultural market might make that offer attractive to a pinched landowner right now."

That has to be one of the most contradictory statements I have ever read in a published magazine... According to Lermayer, by gathering up a few buddies we can take land that was once "off limits" and keep it off limits by leasing it. I guess if you got the "jingle," as Lermayer referred it, it would be a good plan. Maybe not such a good idea for the average reader of his predator mag though.

Everywhere you read there is the common worry that hunting is slowly dying due to the lack of hunter recruitment. Buying up leases and keeping the guy with a limited budget, who works six days a week from taking his kids hunting is a sure fire way to keep this trend going. Heck, one of the biggest reasons predator hunting is taking off right now is the whole leasing aspect hasn't degraded the opprtunities for the common hunter(wage earner).

I know in my own state one of the biggest obstacles and reasons for people giving up hunting is lack of access. And I live in a state with a good portion of public land. I can't begin to imagine how this aspect of "leasing" is constipating hunter numbers in states with 98% private land. If you don't have the $$$ or a connection, you simply don't go.

I'd love for Lermayer to explain to me how leasing up predator hunting rights is going to be an "ADVANTAGE: PREDATOR HUNTERS!" in the future.
 
"ADVANTAGE: PREDATOR HUNTERS!" Yea, right!!!

Mr. Lermayer:
Get out from behind your editor desk for a minute. Quit bending over to advertisers for a minute. Think about the reading base of your magazine for a minute (of which, surely a good percentage, like mine, says "Copy Compliments of XXXX" on the front cover). I know I and many hunting friends and fellow predator hunting site members wouldn't have this silly ad rag if it weren't for the fine folks at All Predator Calls where you get the free subscription whether we want it or not.

You're out of touch with the predator hunting community.

Another great quote from the article:

"...then load up on bulk powder, bullets, primers and the dies you need, and find someone who reloads to do it for you." ??

Why don't you just have us all sign a waiver now at your website stating not to blame you when "someone who reloads" blows me up with their reloads? Mention randomly reloading for others on a public forum and see how long that thread goes without being jumped all over LOL.

I am personally no outfitter fan, by any means, but that first paragraph was sure to get you some more fans too. LOL Basically it says that all we hunters have to do is tell outfitters they better lower the cost, or else they won't get any business..."hunts at giveaway prices just to stay afloat". Good one!

But, of course, the one taking the cake is telling us to get some buddies and get us a predator "lease" since "a falling agriculture market might make that offer attractive to a pinched landowner right now." Nice one, rich boy! My thoughts pretty much mirror Rusty's on this one, but I'll also ask...THEN WHAT? When the market comes back, what will/should these formerly pinched landowners do? Jack up those "lease" prices? Kick you off and "lease" their predator hunting to wealthier, or better yet (what's happening in some states with deer hunting now) "lease" to to deep-pocketed corporations??

Did you write that dribble in order to add more ADS to your rag? I mean, heck, if you're lucky, you can eventually have landowner ads in there. PUKE!!! Did you do it because you have so much money that paying a lease will never bother you, so you have no fear of your kids not doing what we love? Or did you do it because you're just so out of touch with real predator hunters (who aren't in it for the money)?

Whatever it was, it makes most of us sick to think that you have promoted making it harder for us to do what we love. I hope nobody takes your dribble on page 4 serious, that's for sure.

I don't know how these things work, but I hope PX doesn't make a dime off our "compliments of" free subscription.

"It is what it is!" Puke!!!!!!!
 
I'm just thankful that I live in an area with lots of public land. There's bad to it too - there isn't any avoiding tons of competition from other callers on public land. But... I've not only never had to pay for access to hunt coyotes, I've never even had to ASK PERMISSION. Never, in my whole life, even had to ask anyone if it was "okay" to hunt where I hunt. Free as a bird to go where I please.

I'll quit hunting before I'll even go knocking on doors hat in hand, begging some stranger to let me hunt his land. Pay? Not in this lifetime...

- DAA
 
Jeez Joel I see you are against anyone making more money than you. Did you read his whole editorial?

He gave a suggestion because your presidents administration wants to tax ammo up to ridiculous amounts. There are no proposals federally and it just may be Internet drivel but if you don't reload he suggested you buy bulk now while you can. Ammo doesn't spoil. Or have someone reload for you. That is bad? Your jealousy shows through.

As far as the leasing thing goes it is not something I would want to do to hunt predators or anything else for that matter.
 
Down here in Texas everything is privately owned and/or leased. To hunt small game, birds, turkey, and deer you are going to pay. That's just the way it is. We have no choice unless you want to hunt with the orange hords on the little public land we have. Predator hunting, on the other hand, is about the last thing we can hunt free. Knocking on doors can and does get you free access. Especially if they have livestock.

If we start paying for predators, we will see the same thing we Texans have seen with hogs. Hogs used to be a "problem" and land owners happily gave you permission to kill as many as you could. Now, after a few enterprising land owners charged some "city slickers" to kill hogs, killing hogs has become a trophy sport. Hunting hogs now will cost you major bucks with limits on numbers, size, and trophy fees for big boars with big tusks. It makes no sense. The hogs do millions of dollars in damage a year but landowners have learned that they can make some quick cash charging hunters. You can still find free access, but it's getting harder and harder.

And while I'm on the "city slicker" subject, be carefull not to put all of us who lease land for deer hunting into that category. I have leased land my whole life due to circumstance, not choice. If we want to hunt in Texas, we pay but not all of us are weekend warriors. Many of us put in our time scouting, mending fences, fixing roads, and whatever is required to make sure we keep a lease. Unfortuneatly, the all might dollar trumps all. Over the last 8 years prices for leases has quadrupled. What used to cost you $500 a year now costs $2500 and up. Why? Because they charged it and people payed it.

Times are tough but not for Texas landowners in deer country. The last lease I had I lost due to a price increase. The landowner was leasing hunting rights on 1200 acres for $10 an acre. After the season, we were told next year the price was $24 an acre. With 7 paying members, thats a $1700 per gun lease jumping to over $4600 per gun. Since I know kids are on this site, I won't tell you what I told him.

Paying for hunting coyotes? I can see the adds now....
"Hunt trophy coyotes and bobcats. $150 per day. $50 trophy fee for two pointers and a dollar a spot on bobs.
Limit one kill per day."

Got to go start a fire now. Let's see, I need some kindling. Oh yeah! My Predator Xtreme fire starting kit came today!
 
My bad, mbowerma, sorry that you misunderstood my post. Admitedly, I wrote it while a bit over heated. Yes, I read the whole thing. I am not against you or Ralph making more money than me. I am against anything that hurts predator hunting or makes hunting predators a money game (like deer hunting or even hog hunting now). A lot of us have opinions on what does or does not hurt us. I happen to be on the very conservative side of those opinions, and Ralph was not just a little bit out of line.

Regarding my reloading blurb...it had nothing to do with my opinion on reloading. I just thought it was funny that if you mention doing that on an internet forum, you get jumped on pretty quickly regarding danger and even litigation issues in having someone else reload for you. Not that I agree with that thought, just that "it is what it is" LOL. I won't edit my post b/c I'm not a coward. But maybe I shouldn't have put that part. LOL
 
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