First Night Out; iRay Rico MK1 640 50mm & ILR 1000. AKA Rico Trainwreck
- Thread starter P&Y
- Start date
Two months ago I took a Gen 2 Razor off the shelf where it had been sitting in rings for 18 months and put it back onto a rifle that had the been completely disassembled down to the bare receiver (barrel removed) twice in that time and the first group was 3/8" right of center.
Two weeks ago I pulled my old match rifle out of the safe where it had been sitting unfired for over a year and went to a "just for fun" progressive elimination match without checking zero. The first round fired from it landed 2" left of center on a 9x11" plate @300 yds. 5 of the next 6 rounds hit the same size plates @4,5,6,7, and 800yds with a 30 minute break in-between each shot.
It's not uncommon for a competitor to adjust their zero only once after a new barrel is installed and never need to adjust it again until that barrel is shot out and replaced 2-3k rounds later.
What I'm saying is that quality rifles with quality day optics hold zero within 1/4" or better, and I know people who run an 1/8" offset in their Kestrel because their rifle is zero'd "in between clicks"
I wish I had made a video of the previous composite bodied thermal I owned while it was on my test sled. The amount of flex in the body and mount while pressing it sideways with moderate pressure like would be found in a foam rifle case equaled well over 3" @100yds. It would come right back when pressure was releived though. A typical day scope will slide the 60# sled across the concrete before it flexes 1/2". The quick detach mount that came with my other dedicated thermal is horrible for RTZ after removing it. In excess of 3" shifts just based on how it's tightened down. Ironically, both of the previous 2 scopes held a reasonable zero within 1" if they were left on the gun. Just by looking at the mounting system my Yoter-C uses to attach itself to the Objective you can tell that it's not Ridgid.
I'm not trying to be argumentive either, these are just my experiences and observations based on my experience as a consumer and somebody who has shot over 20k rounds over the last 8yrs. I understand that expecting a thermal to hold zero as well as a mechanical scope isn't realistic, but I think we're seeing 2-3" shifts because the manufacturers believe that's acceptable and anything less just isn't a priority for them. Go look at some reviews on thermal scopes. Image, image, and image appear to be the top 3 concerns people want to talk about, followed by recording and wifi at #4 and image in crappy weather again for #5. Throw in a few "tactical" reticles that are useless for anything other than looking cool, and they sell like hotcakes.
P.S. I don't know who Skinny is, so please don't take anything I said personally. You made a lot of good points and obviously know some behind the scenes stuff.
Two weeks ago I pulled my old match rifle out of the safe where it had been sitting unfired for over a year and went to a "just for fun" progressive elimination match without checking zero. The first round fired from it landed 2" left of center on a 9x11" plate @300 yds. 5 of the next 6 rounds hit the same size plates @4,5,6,7, and 800yds with a 30 minute break in-between each shot.
It's not uncommon for a competitor to adjust their zero only once after a new barrel is installed and never need to adjust it again until that barrel is shot out and replaced 2-3k rounds later.
What I'm saying is that quality rifles with quality day optics hold zero within 1/4" or better, and I know people who run an 1/8" offset in their Kestrel because their rifle is zero'd "in between clicks"
I wish I had made a video of the previous composite bodied thermal I owned while it was on my test sled. The amount of flex in the body and mount while pressing it sideways with moderate pressure like would be found in a foam rifle case equaled well over 3" @100yds. It would come right back when pressure was releived though. A typical day scope will slide the 60# sled across the concrete before it flexes 1/2". The quick detach mount that came with my other dedicated thermal is horrible for RTZ after removing it. In excess of 3" shifts just based on how it's tightened down. Ironically, both of the previous 2 scopes held a reasonable zero within 1" if they were left on the gun. Just by looking at the mounting system my Yoter-C uses to attach itself to the Objective you can tell that it's not Ridgid.
I'm not trying to be argumentive either, these are just my experiences and observations based on my experience as a consumer and somebody who has shot over 20k rounds over the last 8yrs. I understand that expecting a thermal to hold zero as well as a mechanical scope isn't realistic, but I think we're seeing 2-3" shifts because the manufacturers believe that's acceptable and anything less just isn't a priority for them. Go look at some reviews on thermal scopes. Image, image, and image appear to be the top 3 concerns people want to talk about, followed by recording and wifi at #4 and image in crappy weather again for #5. Throw in a few "tactical" reticles that are useless for anything other than looking cool, and they sell like hotcakes.
P.S. I don't know who Skinny is, so please don't take anything I said personally. You made a lot of good points and obviously know some behind the scenes stuff.
Burnsome...
Active member
Quote:SOON, there will be, I have some intel on a unit that's being developed that will personally be my, be all end all unit... I heard it will be out this year. I would love to keep you fellas posted here, and Have even offered the MODs a hefty sponsorship if I would be allowed to offer sales once again, and initiate a respectful, competitive market for Thermal and NV gear, as I have many goals for this new year, and ONE of them is contributing more to this awesome forum.
Wow - Looking forward to this...thanks
Wow - Looking forward to this...thanks
P&Y
Member
Well, I returned the LRF unit today. I've had it out many times now and it simply doesn't work. Iray did provide a shipping label. Time will tell if they return something that works.
I've shot at several coyotes also but haven't been able to hit any, very aggravating. My friend with a Trail XQ 50 has been with to tell me the ranges so that's been nice. Last night I missed another broadside shot with a pair coming in behind it. I've decided to just let my partner shoot unless there's more than one.
I attribute the misses to the poor image combined with the tiny focus window and eye box. I'm actually able to consistently stack bullets at 100 yards on the range where there is no time constraints. Trying to make a hit under hunting conditions is a whole different ball game. It takes so long to find the elusive eye position and focus your never running on all cylinders.
Going forward if I have someone with I'll be letting them do the shooting unless there are multiples. After season ends on the 15th I plan to do a warranty claim. The initial function issues I perceived were due to an updated scope and a non-updated users manual. I am betting they will say the scope is working optically up to spec. I've tried every setting in a good variety of conditions and found no improvement. The overly contrasted image remains along with serious thermal blindness as a side effect. As an example if I set the Rico at the lowest brightness and contrast levels it seems equal to other scopes set on their highest. My helion scanner produces a much better image, my friends XQ is better also.
In hindsight I wish I would have stayed with my original NVision LR, no point in paying for the XRF if the rangefinder doesn't work. I would just live with the locking up. Hindsight's 20/20.
Positive side note; my friend with the Trail 2 XQ 50 has been stacking them up and loving it. It's held zero for him. He hasn't rubbed it in too bad his "cheaper" scope is effective and mine isn't!
I've shot at several coyotes also but haven't been able to hit any, very aggravating. My friend with a Trail XQ 50 has been with to tell me the ranges so that's been nice. Last night I missed another broadside shot with a pair coming in behind it. I've decided to just let my partner shoot unless there's more than one.
I attribute the misses to the poor image combined with the tiny focus window and eye box. I'm actually able to consistently stack bullets at 100 yards on the range where there is no time constraints. Trying to make a hit under hunting conditions is a whole different ball game. It takes so long to find the elusive eye position and focus your never running on all cylinders.
Going forward if I have someone with I'll be letting them do the shooting unless there are multiples. After season ends on the 15th I plan to do a warranty claim. The initial function issues I perceived were due to an updated scope and a non-updated users manual. I am betting they will say the scope is working optically up to spec. I've tried every setting in a good variety of conditions and found no improvement. The overly contrasted image remains along with serious thermal blindness as a side effect. As an example if I set the Rico at the lowest brightness and contrast levels it seems equal to other scopes set on their highest. My helion scanner produces a much better image, my friends XQ is better also.
In hindsight I wish I would have stayed with my original NVision LR, no point in paying for the XRF if the rangefinder doesn't work. I would just live with the locking up. Hindsight's 20/20.
Positive side note; my friend with the Trail 2 XQ 50 has been stacking them up and loving it. It's held zero for him. He hasn't rubbed it in too bad his "cheaper" scope is effective and mine isn't!
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yotesniper13
Member
I was sighting in a Pulsar XP50 yesterday and decided to check the zero on my Super Yoter when I was finished. To my surprise it was 12 inches high and 2 inches left. Thats the first time I've had any issues with it since I started using it. I'm glad I took Skinneys advice and checked it. Now we'll see how it does tonight!
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Kirsch
Active member
Originally Posted By: yotesniper13
I was sighting in a Pulsar XP50 yesterday and decided to check the zero on my Super Yoter when I was finished. To my surprise it was 12 inches high and 2 inches left. Thats the first time I've had any issues with it since I started using it. I'm glad I took Skinneys advice and checked it. Now we'll see how it does tonight! 12" x 2" is more than shift. When I hear something like this, some thoughts come to mind.
1) Is the SY mounted too far back such as more than 6 slots back from the end?
2) Is the gun on a different zero profile?
3) Did the zero values change?
4) Is the handle adjusted so there is adequate tension on the handle?
5) Was the thermal mounted again, and a different rail slot selected?
6) Is the suppressor loose on your gun?
Just some things to check. Many SYs aren't 12" off right from the factory because of how they align their mounts. A pixel or two maybe, but 12" sounds like something else is going on.
I was sighting in a Pulsar XP50 yesterday and decided to check the zero on my Super Yoter when I was finished. To my surprise it was 12 inches high and 2 inches left. Thats the first time I've had any issues with it since I started using it. I'm glad I took Skinneys advice and checked it. Now we'll see how it does tonight! 12" x 2" is more than shift. When I hear something like this, some thoughts come to mind.
1) Is the SY mounted too far back such as more than 6 slots back from the end?
2) Is the gun on a different zero profile?
3) Did the zero values change?
4) Is the handle adjusted so there is adequate tension on the handle?
5) Was the thermal mounted again, and a different rail slot selected?
6) Is the suppressor loose on your gun?
Just some things to check. Many SYs aren't 12" off right from the factory because of how they align their mounts. A pixel or two maybe, but 12" sounds like something else is going on.
Kirsch
Active member
Originally Posted By: P&Y1) Is the SY mounted too far back such as more than 6 slots back from the end?
I've experienced and heard of a few mounts that needed to be 1 slot from the end. Personally, if the mount needs more than 1 slot I'd get a different one and suspect the mount is to blame for that shift. I am talking about the front of the mount on the SY. The LaRue mount has a rail-post as the front of the mount. It is a very unique design. Any mount that the front of your mount is on the last rail slot is going to struggle, if it will even have enough to grab anything. On an AR, mounting it this far forward should be totally doable. If not or on a bolt, there are options for rail-extenders to get a person far enough back.
I've experienced and heard of a few mounts that needed to be 1 slot from the end. Personally, if the mount needs more than 1 slot I'd get a different one and suspect the mount is to blame for that shift. I am talking about the front of the mount on the SY. The LaRue mount has a rail-post as the front of the mount. It is a very unique design. Any mount that the front of your mount is on the last rail slot is going to struggle, if it will even have enough to grab anything. On an AR, mounting it this far forward should be totally doable. If not or on a bolt, there are options for rail-extenders to get a person far enough back.
yotesniper13
Member
Originally Posted By: KirschOriginally Posted By: yotesniper13
I was sighting in a Pulsar XP50 yesterday and decided to check the zero on my Super Yoter when I was finished. To my surprise it was 12 inches high and 2 inches left. Thats the first time I've had any issues with it since I started using it. I'm glad I took Skinneys advice and checked it. Now we'll see how it does tonight! 12" x 2" is more than shift. When I hear something like this, some thoughts come to mind.
1) Is the SY mounted too far back such as more than 6 slots back from the end?
2) Is the gun on a different zero profile?
3) Did the zero values change?
4) Is the handle adjusted so there is adequate tension on the handle?
5) Was the thermal mounted again, and a different rail slot selected?
6) Is the suppressor loose on your gun?
Just some things to check. Many SYs aren't 12" off right from the factory because of how they align their mounts. A pixel or two maybe, but 12" sounds like something else is going on.
Suppressor is tight. Never removed the scope from the rifle. I never kept track of the zero values until now. It looks like the front of the mount is on the fifth slot from the back. I feel like the mount is tight. I've used this part of last season and all of this season with no issues. It's killed lots of coyotes.
I was sighting in a Pulsar XP50 yesterday and decided to check the zero on my Super Yoter when I was finished. To my surprise it was 12 inches high and 2 inches left. Thats the first time I've had any issues with it since I started using it. I'm glad I took Skinneys advice and checked it. Now we'll see how it does tonight! 12" x 2" is more than shift. When I hear something like this, some thoughts come to mind.
1) Is the SY mounted too far back such as more than 6 slots back from the end?
2) Is the gun on a different zero profile?
3) Did the zero values change?
4) Is the handle adjusted so there is adequate tension on the handle?
5) Was the thermal mounted again, and a different rail slot selected?
6) Is the suppressor loose on your gun?
Just some things to check. Many SYs aren't 12" off right from the factory because of how they align their mounts. A pixel or two maybe, but 12" sounds like something else is going on.
Suppressor is tight. Never removed the scope from the rifle. I never kept track of the zero values until now. It looks like the front of the mount is on the fifth slot from the back. I feel like the mount is tight. I've used this part of last season and all of this season with no issues. It's killed lots of coyotes.
Kirsch
Active member
Originally Posted By: yotesniper13Suppressor is tight. Never removed the scope from the rifle. I never kept track of the zero values until now. It looks like the front of the mount is on the fifth slot from the back. I feel like the mount is tight. I've used this part of last season and all of this season with no issues. It's killed lots of coyotes. We've taken this thread off-track from a Rico discussion to a Super Yoter discussion. I do have one question. You said you used it part of last season and all of this season. The Super Yoter first released in October of 2021. Are you talking about a different scope for instance the Super Hogster?
yotesniper13
Member
I meant to say last year and all of this year so far. I've had this scope since November. Sorry for taking this discussion off track. Just posted here after reading Skinneys comments. I should have started a new thread.
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I guess I should chime in on the IRAY RICO. I own a 384x288 that has been nothing short of rock sold. Sighted it in April 2021 has not been touch since then. I have killed 36 coyotes warm & cold temps. I bought the 384 because of native 4x. Iam well pleased. Sorry for others bad luck.
Forgot to comment on range finder. It stunk, sent it back.
Forgot to comment on range finder. It stunk, sent it back.
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P&Y
Member
Originally Posted By: old catI guess I should chime in on the IRAY RICO. I own a 384x288 that has been nothing short of rock sold. Sighted it in April 2021 has not been touch since then. I have killed 36 coyotes warm & cold temps. I bought the 384 because of native 4x. Iam well pleased. Sorry for others bad luck.
Forgot to comment on range finder. It stunk, sent it back.
Good to hear old cat (except for the rangefinder part).
Forgot to comment on range finder. It stunk, sent it back.
Good to hear old cat (except for the rangefinder part).
Glad I lurked in here. I was considering spending some of my kids inheritance on a new scope with a laser range finder. I'm coming to the conclusion that they are not terribly reliable. 80 percent of the time I really don't need one anyway. I would be astounded at the posts now of unreliable scopes with POI shifts but I think I was the very first to post on this forum with the issue of a Pulsar Trail XP50 POI shift and was ridiculed for it. In the last 12 months I have purchased a Bering optics Super Hogster and an AGM Rattler and pretty happy with both but I try to check my zero before every hunt. So far only have two Trijicons out of three that I would stake my life on. Most of these units have Chinese parts manufactured with slave labor.
P&Y
Member
igor, glad the thread could help you make a more informed decision on that inheritance money. Sorry to hear you were ridiculed for the Pulsar problems. That's salt in the wound. You know what they say about karma.. Ironically whoever ridiculed you probably got slapped in the face with the poi shift themselves!
I do hear you on the Chinese parts and slave labor. I tried two more expensive, American made scopes. They didn't work right either. After over half a dozen scopes by three different manufacturers I haven't found one I'm confident hunting with let alone risking my life on!
I do hear you on the Chinese parts and slave labor. I tried two more expensive, American made scopes. They didn't work right either. After over half a dozen scopes by three different manufacturers I haven't found one I'm confident hunting with let alone risking my life on!
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P&Y. I feel your pain. I've been in the NV and thermal game about 8 years now and have had my share of frustrations. Question. Did you ever try a Thermion? Also I've had pretty good luck with Trijicon. They are pricy and I had some issues on one but they are pretty decent units.
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