C0y0tes in Heaven?

To address the thing called a prophesies fulfilled. I will express the Bertram Russell's Tea Part Theory. There is no way to prove or disprove that there is a teapot floating around between Earth and Mars, no-one can disprove the assertion. If you want to see a clever old coot on youtube, Bertram Russell is it!
And now the moment all of the most devout believers have been waiting for for over 2 thousand years. The return of 'Yours Truly!' Yes it's me! J.C. himself, disguised all this time as 243kimber! Who would of thunk it! Yeah! I knew I would get a lot of you! I do have a sense of humor after all!
There has a been a little change of plan that I have taken the time, after 2 thousand years to tell you about. You know all of that $$ you have been giving to your church all of these years? Well, that needs to stop now! By the power vested in me, (by 'You Know Who!'), you are all commanded to give all of that money every week from now on to 243kimber. Or as I will call myself from now on, J.C.2! (Sounds kinds cool, don't you think??) I take Visa, MasterCard, American Express, and now that trump is in office, The Russian Ruble. Please send to my address: P.O. Box BR549, Heaven.
And remember, if you don't, you will......Anybody...???? Burn In [beeep] Forever!
Now, the skeptical viewpoint you will take with my unproven claims, take to any and all religious books. From the Egyptian book Of The dead, to The Torah, to The Bible, and then to 'The Final Word from God!' 'The Holy Koran!'
We have a choice. The choice is a conversion or violence. We are the first generation in the world to be able to review with skepticism and science, any and all supernatural, superstitious religious claims that religions make that go against everything we have learned since these religious books were written. We have to find the courage somehow to face these facts. If not for ourselves, surely for our children, that look up to us like we know what we are doing, to make the necessary changes in our viewpoints, according to the facts as we find them. Not on how an ancient book declares how the world should be. Like I said earlier. Learning about religions, their creeds, what was worshiped before this god, then after that god. And how religions fueled the wars then, as they still do today, at this very moment. It is a most interesting topic. By discussing this, peace can and will prevail.
 
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Originally Posted By: JTPinTXA few years before his death I remember us having a conversation about Heaven. At first he hesitated. I think because his thoughts on the subject ran somewhat counter to a lot of what is perceived that we THINK that we know about Heaven (in common knowledge), and he knew his answer would require either a long answer, or none at all.

He started with a description of Heaven, from what the Bible teaches us. Not a physical description, but one that describes what it is like to actually be there. Prominent in that description was the fact that we will be free from the pain and suffering of which there is much in the world we are currently in. Also prominent in his discussion was the fact that it would be so much better than the world we are in now, that there really does not seem to be an adequate way to even describe it to us, in terms we could understand.

Well this is a completely different horse. Several years ago while on a deployment, myself and three other soldiers came across some books in an MWR tent. We each took a copy of the book; A Purpose Driven Life. We spent the next 40 days going through its readings during down time. I remember it described Heaven as something our earthly minds could not even begin to understand. To attempt to describe it to humans would be like trying to’ “explain the internet to an ant.” In those pages I read, grasped and developed the realization that on our death beds we do not want our medals, diplomas, awards or material possessions brought to us in our final moment, we want our families.



I think it was at this time that I lost the desire and ability to socialize with groups of people with that materialistic mindset. I don’t know but I do remember getting to the chapter on baptism. I remember discussing getting baptized in the Tigris or Euphrates with its biblical overtones but the sanitary health risks thought us better. We found a Chaplin willing to perform the ritual in an old well and was baptized in Mesopotamia.


Originally Posted By: JTPinTXThe question that sparked this conversation was whether people who were already in Heaven, or who had already "passed on" could look down on Earth to their loved ones who were still here, and whether, when the time came if they would be able to know if those same loved ones made it to heaven or went to [beeep].

If my grandparents that held me as a child where able to observe that from Heaven, then it was a start to the process of being forgiving for all the horrible things I had and ironically had yet to do. I was talking to an old man I knew from AA meetings and he asked; “do you think God has forgiven you?” of course I replied “Yes.” I will never forget what he said next; “then why can’t you forgive yourself, what makes you any better than God?’ I am sure if Bill is looking down from Heaven as I quote him, he is able to see his words did not fall upon deaf ears.

In the mean time I am ok with being labeled as crazy for believing in an all-powerful sky wizard who created all that is. But just as crazy does not mean dumb, smart does not mean wise..

Originally Posted By: JTPinTXHe was the first to admit, that he did not know the answer to that question.

Your dad passed on wisdom beyond just his experience calling in coyote.

Originally Posted By: JTPinTXhow could coyote ever be a part of a place with no pain and suffering? That is his world, the one he lives and thrives in.

The natives referred to him as God’s dog. Perhaps I am seeing a trend that God has a soft spot for even the damned. Could it be that the creator works best with those who have broken cogs?

James, I went out SE of Enid and found clear skies, also called in a female that showed no sign of being pregnant. It is getting close
 
That is true, and in that regard maybe coyote has just as much a place in Heaven as we do. Just like us, he seems to struggle along the best he can.

Most of the coyotes here seemed paired up now. Pretty soon they will get about the business of digging dens. Green up sure is happening early this year. Makes me think we are going to get a late freeze and wipe out the fruit crop.
 
Originally Posted By: 243kimberTo address the thing called a prophesies fulfilled. I will express the Bertram Russell's Tea Part Theory. There is no way to prove or disprove that there is a teapot floating around between Earth and Mars, no-one can disprove the assertion. If you want to see a clever old coot on youtube, Bertram Russell is it!
And now the moment all of the most devout believers have been waiting for for over 2 thousand years. The return of 'Yours Truly!' Yes it's me! J.C. himself, disguised all this time as 243kimber! Who would of thunk it! Yeah! I knew I would get a lot of you! I do have a sense of humor after all!
There has a been a little change of plan that I have taken the time, after 2 thousand years to tell you about. You know all of that $$ you have been giving to your church all of these years? Well, that needs to stop now! By the power vested in me, (by 'You Know Who!'), you are all commanded to give all of that money every week from now on to 243kimber. Or as I will call myself from now on, J.C.2! (Sounds kinds cool, don't you think??) I take Visa, MasterCard, American Express, and now that trump is in office, The Russian Ruble. Please send to my address: P.O. Box BR549, Heaven.
And remember, if you don't, you will......Anybody...???? Burn In [beeep] Forever!
Now, the skeptical viewpoint you will take with my unproven claims, take to any and all religious books. From the Egyptian book Of The dead, to The Torah, to The Bible, and then to 'The Final Word from God!' 'The Holy Koran!'
We have a choice. The choice is a conversion or violence. We are the first generation in the world to be able to review with skepticism and science, any and all supernatural, superstitious religious claims that religions make that go against everything we have learned since these religious books were written. We have to find the courage somehow to face these facts. If not for ourselves, surely for our children, that look up to us like we know what we are doing, to make the necessary changes in our viewpoints, according to the facts as we find them. Not on how an ancient book declares how the world should be. Like I said earlier. Learning about religions, their creeds, what was worshiped before this god, then after that god. And how religions fueled the wars then, as they still do today, at this very moment. It is a most interesting topic. By discussing this, peace can and will prevail.

That is your response to the Jesus Christ fulfilling the prophesies that foretold his life, death, and resurrection?

You did not address anything.

You just like to hear yourself talk. You worship your (flawed) intellect.
 
Originally Posted By: 243kimberTo address the thing called a prophesies fulfilled. I will express the Bertram Russell's Tea Part Theory. There is no way to prove or disprove that there is a teapot floating around between Earth and Mars, no-one can disprove the assertion. If you want to see a clever old coot on youtube, Bertram Russell is it!
And now the moment all of the most devout believers have been waiting for for over 2 thousand years. The return of 'Yours Truly!' Yes it's me! J.C. himself, disguised all this time as 243kimber! Who would of thunk it! Yeah! I knew I would get a lot of you! I do have a sense of humor after all!
There has a been a little change of plan that I have taken the time, after 2 thousand years to tell you about. You know all of that $$ you have been giving to your church all of these years? Well, that needs to stop now! By the power vested in me, (by 'You Know Who!'), you are all commanded to give all of that money every week from now on to 243kimber. Or as I will call myself from now on, J.C.2! (Sounds kinds cool, don't you think??) I take Visa, MasterCard, American Express, and now that trump is in office, The Russian Ruble. Please send to my address: P.O. Box BR549, Heaven.
And remember, if you don't, you will......Anybody...???? Burn In [beeep] Forever!
Now, the skeptical viewpoint you will take with my unproven claims, take to any and all religious books. From the Egyptian book Of The dead, to The Torah, to The Bible, and then to 'The Final Word from God!' 'The Holy Koran!'
We have a choice. The choice is a conversion or violence. We are the first generation in the world to be able to review with skepticism and science, any and all supernatural, superstitious religious claims that religions make that go against everything we have learned since these religious books were written. We have to find the courage somehow to face these facts. If not for ourselves, surely for our children, that look up to us like we know what we are doing, to make the necessary changes in our viewpoints, according to the facts as we find them. Not on how an ancient book declares how the world should be. Like I said earlier. Learning about religions, their creeds, what was worshiped before this god, then after that god. And how religions fueled the wars then, as they still do today, at this very moment. It is a most interesting topic. By discussing this, peace can and will prevail.



Regards,
hm
 
Originally Posted By: JTPinTXThat is true, and in that regard maybe coyote has just as much a place in Heaven as we do. Just like us, he seems to struggle along the best he can.

You've touched on something here. The truth is stranger than fiction...The religions would like us to believe that Coyote and human were both thrown onto this planet as seperate lonesome beings. Truth is, we both came from the Earth (and will go back into it) and at one point in time, long before man or coyote, we were both the same creature. Every living being came from one generation of life; One tree of life.

Struggle is a necessary condition of life and shared by all. Without it, a coyote wouldn't be a coyote and humans wouldn't be what we are today. Also, a struggling human invented Heaven, in his attempt to escape..
 
Since you all are quoting humans, books written by humans, self serving preachers, etc. I can give you some quotes: "You cant handle the truth", "a man must know his limitations", "he who who he".
"You dont know what you dont know".
 
Originally Posted By: ThomCSince you all are quoting humans, books written by humans, self serving preachers, etc. I can give you some quotes: "You cant handle the truth", "a man must know his limitations", "he who who he".
"You dont know what you dont know".
Well said
 
Originally Posted By: ThomCSince you all are quoting humans, books written by humans, self serving preachers, etc. I can give you some quotes: "You cant handle the truth", "a man must know his limitations", "he who who he".
"You dont know what you dont know".

Maybe I'm just a bit confused about your post there Thom. I can't be sure which side of the bread you've buttered. Maybe a bit more info would be in order. I would agree that some here are quoting humans. Although others are in fact quoting God, who through His Holy Spirit breathed the words as directed by God through the Apostles and prophets through the ages. Surely I'm not understanding your points and your not really implying that the agents of God were simply making this stuff up.

Are there self serving preachers? Darn right there are, just as I stated in an earlier post. What's that got to do with anything. Maybe you can name some profession somewhere that has no corrupt people, I cannot think of any.

Can't handle the truth? Surely you're just yanking our chain. Of course we can handle the truth, we do so every day. It is fully laid out for us and anyone elsee who desires to learn it.

A man must know his limitations? We couldn't agree more. Humankind is so corrupted and evil it is impossible to be righteous enough to stand before the one and only Judge, the creator of the universe, YHWH and hope to receive mercy based on our own efforts or merits. That's why we have justification immediately upon placing our faith in and on Jesus of Nazareth, who then begins the process of sanctification which is ongoing. That process results in our glorification as we pass to the other side and arrive at the throne of God. All this because we indeed know our limitations.

I can't address mumbo jumbo like he who who he. Maybe I'm simply not as learned as you.

We don't know what we don't know. Now that is a sure enough profound statement friend. Not sure if you're yanking that chain again. I mean has someone at some point told you they did know what they don't know? That just seems like such a strange thing to say. I'm not sure if you're trying to dazzle us with your brilliance or just baffle us with your BS. If you simply meant neither side has bona-fide, irrefutable, iron clad evidence seems like you would have said that. Be that as it may I would stipulate that to be correct. And frankly it seems to me that it really makes no difference to either side. It takes personal faith no matter which side you stand on to harbor whatever your belief may be.

It is faith that maintains us Christians. And actually it takes even more faith to believe that this all happened by accident.

Anyway I hope I've clarified my position, hopefully you will clarify yours.
 
It all comes back to this...

Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

People kill God in their mind because they love their sin. We are so complex and wonderfully made that only a fool would say there was not a creator.

But, logic is not the issue. It is pride and sin.
 
Originally Posted By: ThomCSince you all are quoting humans, books written by humans, self serving preachers, etc. I can give you some quotes: "You cant handle the truth", "a man must know his limitations", "he who who he".
"You dont know what you dont know".

Did you read everything people have said in this thread? There are a lot of quotes from both believers and non believers but there is also a lot of wisdom gained by personal experience. Do you have anything to add that is not just some copy and paste quotes that could possibly stimulate any thoughts? I mean come on now... this is not any type of brain food that could even begin to arouse mental masturbation at best;

Originally Posted By: ThomC"You cant handle the truth"



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with that, the following quote has possibility for further discussion;

Originally Posted By: ThomC"a man must know his limitations"

I believe I have chimed in a little on this one;

Originally Posted By: Infidel 762we are souls who have bodies... we are driving skeletons with fleshy overcoats while gravity bound to this spinning rock with its axis on a tilt..

Originally Posted By: Infidel 762All are human measurements of time and bound by the laws of this universe.

Originally Posted By: Infidel 762 Mankind is advancing at a rate never seen before and if you look back at just the last 100 years, the concept that religion is holding us back does not hold water. Look at our technology, weapons of war, modern medicine and the information super highway you are reading this on. Our advancements are allowing us to do ourselves in at an accelerated rate, without any consideration of God.

Originally Posted By: Infidel 762a tree, monkey head or any other earthly form of matter that is confined to the laws and limits of this universe.

Originally Posted By: Infidel 762If our entire life force and animating essence only exists within the mortal flesh of our brains then how do you know that "everything that is" is limited and only exists in your own mind. Everything you know and feel right now could be nothing more than a dream and we hope we are getting through to you... please wake up...

I would like to hear your personal interpretations of man's limitations. Oh yeah, I have already heard the one about how much more intelligent people are that can reason that believing in God, is like believing in the tooth fairy. Are you referring to limitations like walking on water, flying or our existence being limited to this world?

................................................................................................................................................

Originally Posted By: ThomC "You dont know what you dont know"


Is there anything you contemplate that "you know you don't know"? Do you seek answers to these things or do you just accept the unknowingly in some type of agnostic faith. Do you know the difference between an atheist and agnostic?

I think;

Originally Posted By: Infidel 762with my limited time, view and exposure to all that is, all that has been and all that is to come, well I guess this perspective allows me the grace to have the faith of a child.

Originally Posted By: Infidel 762if there is "fuzzy math" used to debunk what the masses believe, then I place the "fuzz" on human error and or interpretation.

Originally Posted By: Infidel 762 so much is written with symbolism that leaves it not only open for interpretation but confusion as well.

Originally Posted By: Infidel 762 something our earthly minds could not even begin to understand.

................................................................................................................................................

Originally Posted By: ThomC "he who who he".

Know with this quote I will admit that I don't know, what I don't know... I does remind me of the chorus in this song
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Wow you like quotes, got you thinking? Some more of my favorites: Badges? We dont need no stinking badges. Why dont you be a little more polite, throw down that old iron and we will be on our way. Fill your hands you SOB.
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Originally Posted By: ThomCWow you like quotes, got you thinking? Some more of my favorites: Badges? We dont need no stinking badges. Why dont you be a little more polite, throw down that old iron and we will be on our way. Fill your hands you SOB.
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It appears you have crossed the border as an illegal immigrant. This thread is not about coyotes that smuggle people into the USA. It's about a different kind of coyote. It is also about heaven. Wishing you the best with finding your way there.
 
If we are going to use movie qoutes as wisdom we must be lacking in the intellectual department. But what the heck, HEY, WHERE DE WHITE WOMEN AT.

WOODY HAS A SON OR BROTHER.
 
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