At least 26 killed in mass shooting at Texas church

Littledawg's point is 100% correct. The concept of 'establishing legal precedent' is a very important point in defending the Second Amendment, a point that many gun rights supporters fail to grasp. Thank God the N.R.A.'s lawyers understand it, we'd all be bow hunters now if they didn't.

From Wikipedia:
In common law legal systems(U.S.A.), a precedent or authority is a legal case that establishes a principle or rule.[1] This principle or rule is then used by the court or other judicial bodies when deciding later cases with similar issues or facts.[1] The use of precedent provides predictability, stability, fairness, and efficiency in the law. The Latin term stare decisis is the doctrine of legal precedent.[2]
 
I can understand a man making a personal decision that an AR is not a good thing or should not be in the public.
I would therefore assume if a man made such a decision and did own an AR he would destroy it and not sell it so that it would never fall into the wrong hands.

As to why guns catch so much more grief than cars and drugs and other things that cause death I wonder if money might have something to do with it.
This country operates on the auto. Have to have a job to buy a good auto so you can get to work so you can pay for the auto.

The problems we have now will have to be dealt with on a local basis. This idea of one size fits all does not work.The solutions for a problem in Washington State might not fit so well in S Texas.
Even in this case of the shooting it got handled about as good as could be expected. A local man heard the shooting and responded to stop it.
I don't see how we will ever be able to get out front of this kind of stuff and stop it before it happens unless we become a total police state and jail people for looking like they might be thinking something.
 
Originally Posted By: littledawgI think people understand what you are saying. Most folks are worried and rightfully so, that if AR's go away, the shooter(s) will simply switch weapons. Then that particular weapon of choice will be added to the list. How will you personally feel when they finally work their way down the list to your beloved bolt guns? There are mass killings in some part of the world on a weekly basis that do not involve a firearm. Folks are simply saying that banning a particular weapon of choice will not stop a person from performing an act of evil. Didn't chicken poop and diesel fuel kill more than the last 10 mass shootings combined?

You seem like a reasonable guy, thus don't you agree it will not stop regardless of what is banned or restricted?

Honestly, I don’t even think of it in terms of banning this or that. I think of it in terms of sportsmen and law abiding gun owners coming together to have a mature discussion about the issue without someone shouting out in the crowd, “you ain’t takin’ my guns” (or) “outta my cold dead hands”.
 
Originally Posted By: tnshootistI can understand a man making a personal decision that an AR is not a good thing or should not be in the public.
I would therefore assume if a man made such a decision and did own an AR he would destroy it and not sell it so that it would never fall into the wrong hands.

As to why guns catch so much more grief than cars and drugs and other things that cause death I wonder if money might have something to do with it.
This country operates on the auto. Have to have a job to buy a good auto so you can get to work so you can pay for the auto.

The problems we have now will have to be dealt with on a local basis. This idea of one size fits all does not work.The solutions for a problem in Washington State might not fit so well in S Texas.
Even in this case of the shooting it got handled about as good as could be expected. A local man heard the shooting and responded to stop it.
I don't see how we will ever be able to get out front of this kind of stuff and stop it before it happens unless we become a total police state and jail people for looking like they might be thinking something.


Sorry, but I don’t agree with your statement. Particularly about drugs. There is an epidemic in the country that has affected many. I have personally felt the effects of this with losing family members to drug addiction. I have done my part in not contributing to the problem. Been sober for many years. I’m part of the solution. And that goes for alcohol as well. All while being legal, alcohol has devastated and destroyed many people and ripped apart many families.
 
Yes I understand what you are saying about drugs and don't disagree.
My point I was trying to make is that there is a lot of money in drugs.A lot of people in important places benefit from drug money.

Guns on the other hand worry them.They would rather be rid of guns in the hands of common men.
 
Originally Posted By: Bad DawgWell, in closing I’ll just share some personal info. I own three bolt guns for hunting, a shotgun for hunting and home protection and a small caliber handgun for protection. I have owned an AR and also a Ruger mini. I found no use whatsoever for either of these rifles and decided to get rid of them.

I am not opposed to others owning AR’s. My good friend that I hunt with on a regular basis hunts with one and I have no problem with it. It’s his choice.

But I have to be honest. Some will judge me for saying this and some may not, but I have the courage to say it anyway, whether in person or via the internet. After all of these shootings and knowing full well the preferred weapon of these shooters, I am not a big fan of them and will never own one in the future. If there were mass killings happening on a regular basis (and increasing by date and casualties) with spoons, I would have to re-evaluate my relationship with spoons. That’s just how I choose to live my life.

For all who decided to have a mature conversation, thanks.

Have a good day!

So your idea is to progressively remove the tools? When all tools are removed and we only have rocks, what then?
 
With what is going on in our country today is it really a wonder why these things are happening...

The main stream media, many hollywood celebrities, entertainers, sports players, politicians, radical leftists in academia etc are promoting violence almost on a daily basis while all their politicians are screaming for gun control at the same time, but why aren't their politicians condemning all this violence instead of pushing gun control...
 
Originally Posted By: Foxpro.223With what is going on in our country today is it really a wonder why these things are happening...

The main stream media, many hollywood celebrities, entertainers, sports players, politicians, radical leftists in academia etc are promoting violence almost on a daily basis while all their politicians are screaming for gun control at the same time, but why aren't their politicians condemning all this violence instead of pushing gun control...


Simple. Because the violence supports their agenda.

Regards,
hm
 
Originally Posted By: hm1996Originally Posted By: Foxpro.223With what is going on in our country today is it really a wonder why these things are happening...

The main stream media, many hollywood celebrities, entertainers, sports players, politicians, radical leftists in academia etc are promoting violence almost on a daily basis while all their politicians are screaming for gun control at the same time, but why aren't their politicians condemning all this violence instead of pushing gun control...


Simple. Because the violence supports their agenda.

Regards,
hm


Exactly.
 
Originally Posted By: Bad Dawg

Ok. Let’s look at it from another point of view. Shall we allow citizens to posses tanks, rockets, military aircraft and even nukes? Why do we not allow this? The answer is simple. Because in the wrong hands these instruments can cause a significant amount of damage to a population in a very short time.



I believe some citizens do possess tanks, rockets, and military aircraft. Haven't heard of any of them being used in any killing sprees by private citizens, however. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: NdIndyOriginally Posted By: Bad DawgWell, in closing I’ll just share some personal info. I own three bolt guns for hunting, a shotgun for hunting and home protection and a small caliber handgun for protection. I have owned an AR and also a Ruger mini. I found no use whatsoever for either of these rifles and decided to get rid of them.

I am not opposed to others owning AR’s. My good friend that I hunt with on a regular basis hunts with one and I have no problem with it. It’s his choice.

But I have to be honest. Some will judge me for saying this and some may not, but I have the courage to say it anyway, whether in person or via the internet. After all of these shootings and knowing full well the preferred weapon of these shooters, I am not a big fan of them and will never own one in the future. If there were mass killings happening on a regular basis (and increasing by date and casualties) with spoons, I would have to re-evaluate my relationship with spoons. That’s just how I choose to live my life.

For all who decided to have a mature conversation, thanks.

Have a good day!

So your idea is to progressively remove the tools? When all tools are removed and we only have rocks, what then?



Fear based philosophy!! Sorry, but I don’t subscribe to it!
 
Originally Posted By: MerditOriginally Posted By: Bad Dawg

Ok. Let’s look at it from another point of view. Shall we allow citizens to posses tanks, rockets, military aircraft and even nukes? Why do we not allow this? The answer is simple. Because in the wrong hands these instruments can cause a significant amount of damage to a population in a very short time.



I believe some citizens do possess tanks, rockets, and military aircraft. Haven't heard of any of them being used in any killing sprees by private citizens, however. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I will correct you. Many people I know own AR’s. Not one of those people (or any others for that matter) own a tank, rocket, military jet or nuke. If you are going to argue a point, please at least be rational.
 
If you are going to argue a point, please at least be rational. [/quote]

The rational is its about control SIR and not about any particular firearm.. I was totally against what was then called Saturday Night Specials many years ago but that was then not now. If you can legally own and are able to operate a firearm, what type or model is no ones business but the owners.
Give the Devil and inch and he'll take a mile!!!
 
Originally Posted By: Droopyfur2

The rational is its about control SIR and not about any particular firearm.. I was totally against what was then called Saturday Night Specials many years ago but that was then not now. If you can legally own and are able to operate a firearm, what type or model is no ones business but the owners.
Give the Devil and inch and he'll take a mile!!!

SIR! Thank you so very much for doing your best to educate my simple mind on such a vast topic, but with all due respect, push on!

When you are done flogging my back, and go to rub salt in the wounds, would you mind using sea salt? I prefer it over the iodised!
 
BD, I respect your right to your beliefs and the fact that you are personally willing to abide by those beliefs, even if it is misguided, as opposed to many of the gun grabbing Hollywood and political types (with their three layers of armed security).

If it works for you, more power, however, let me point out a couple of fallacies.

1) Your giving up your right to own a certain firearm (or spoon for that matter) will do nothing to prevent such atrocities as occurred in TX or NV unless you personally were planning such a dastardly deed, which of course, you are not.

The chances of your firearm falling into the hands of a mass murderer are slim to none, assuming you take normal precautions any responsible firearm owner should, of course.

Furthermore, any law restricting ownership of firearms affects only law abiding citizens, not the criminal preparing for his crime spree. It is just "common sense" (to use the grabbers' own favorite gun control phrase) to realize that violating a gun law is of little concern to a criminal preparing to commit murder which is also against the law! What's one (minor) criminal violation, compared to the (major) violation of the laws against murder?

2) Availability of firearms, contrary to grabbers' claims, does not contribute to the crime rate.

Simple fact is, statistics prove the availability of firearms has no effect on crime rate other than very possibly preventing "a good guy with a gun" terminating the bad guy's spree. Click link below and scroll to page 6 for supporting charts/statistics:

Quote: Myth: The availability of guns causes crime
Fact: Though the number of firearms owned by private citizens has been increasing steadily since 1970, the overall rate of homicides and suicides has not risen.33 As the chart shows, there is no correlation between the availability of firearms and the rates of homicide and suicide in America

https://gunowners.org/pdf/2014gunfacts.pdf

These are just two of the myriad of facts which need to be considered in any intelligent attempt to reduce criminal misuse of firearms or any other tools in the commission of such heinous acts.

And while we are at it, perhaps more attention could/should be given to criminal/mental records as opposed to placing all the blame on inanimate objects.

3) The perpetrator in every mass shooting in the past several years was either mentally troubled, on mind altering drugs, or a brainwashed fanatic.

It would seem to me that targeting such misguided individuals would be much more productive in preventing these tragedies than would gun control. After all, those who have been responsible for many of these attacks around the world have used bombs, gasoline, trucks, etc. with equally deadly results.

The perpetrator of the last tragedy, for instance:

1) Was convicted of Domestic violence, served 12 months in prison and received a "less than honorable" discharge for beating and pointing a loaded firearm at his spouse and hitting his 11 month old son hard enough to crack his skull!

2) Had attempted to smuggle firearms on a military base after making death threats against his chain of command.

3) Had previously escaped from a mental institution in New Mexico.

The warnings were clear, but unfortunately fell through the cracks.

Regards,
hm
 
Originally Posted By: tnshootistThe only man who knows what his motivations were is not talking.


Yeah that’s why they are doing an investigation.
Mental illness and domestic violence appear to be the motivations at this time, and religion and politics do not-
according to the Texas Department of Public Safety.

*
 
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