SlickerThanSnot
New member
they should discuss texting while driving too.
At least 26 killed in mass shooting at Texas church
- Thread starter hm1996
- Start date
Bad Dawg
New member
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotQuote:mass shooters are using semi-auto handguns and ar style rifles more than any other type of gun. It’s a fact that needs to be brought to attention and discussed.
it is discussed every time something happens. the gun grabbers love to bring it to attention and discuss it.
do you have a solution you would like to suggest?
I have no solution, but that does not mean that I should remain silent to discussing the issue. That is how solutions come about.
it is discussed every time something happens. the gun grabbers love to bring it to attention and discuss it.
do you have a solution you would like to suggest?
I have no solution, but that does not mean that I should remain silent to discussing the issue. That is how solutions come about.
Plant.One
Well-known member
his choice - and the choies of several recent shooters - are only important to the discussion because the media so sensationalizes them. they know if they use that firearm system its going to get them attention in the media - because as a whole, the media hates them.
there are millions of ar-type rifles out there. they're affordable, reliable, easy to get good with and up until a few years ago sold everywhere including walmart. the fact that they're getting used by bad guys here and there isnt supprising at all. they're no different in popularity than the pump action shotgun or bolt action rifle of yesteryear.
and if you dont think someone with a mossberg 500 with an extension tube and a pocket full of buckshot couldnt create as much (if not more) mayhem in a church that size as this guy did with an AR - you're lying to yourself.
evil will find a tool, usually the closest tool to hand, and use it. the tool itself is just that a tool, and doesnt know its being used by someone evil or someone good.
thankfully in this instance a good guy with an ar-15 stopped a bad guy with an ar-15 - unfortunatly it wasnt as soon as some of us might have liked.
there are millions of ar-type rifles out there. they're affordable, reliable, easy to get good with and up until a few years ago sold everywhere including walmart. the fact that they're getting used by bad guys here and there isnt supprising at all. they're no different in popularity than the pump action shotgun or bolt action rifle of yesteryear.
and if you dont think someone with a mossberg 500 with an extension tube and a pocket full of buckshot couldnt create as much (if not more) mayhem in a church that size as this guy did with an AR - you're lying to yourself.
evil will find a tool, usually the closest tool to hand, and use it. the tool itself is just that a tool, and doesnt know its being used by someone evil or someone good.
thankfully in this instance a good guy with an ar-15 stopped a bad guy with an ar-15 - unfortunatly it wasnt as soon as some of us might have liked.
Bad Dawg
New member
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotQuote:mass shooters are using semi-auto handguns and ar style rifles more than any other type of gun. It’s a fact that needs to be brought to attention and discussed.
it is discussed every time something happens. the gun grabbers love to bring it to attention and discuss it.
do you have a solution you would like to suggest?
I don’t believe these are all ‘gun grabbers’ anymore. There are many responsible gun owners that are being labeled as such because they are re-evaluating their stance on some of the gun laws in this country.
When you have innocent people at a concert, that are going out for a night of ‘fun’ and get mowed down with an AR, that’s a bit concerning!
When you have a group of peaceful people going to their place of worship and they get mowed down with an AR, that’s a bit concerning! And let’s not forget about the 18 month old baby and 77 year old woman.
it is discussed every time something happens. the gun grabbers love to bring it to attention and discuss it.
do you have a solution you would like to suggest?
I don’t believe these are all ‘gun grabbers’ anymore. There are many responsible gun owners that are being labeled as such because they are re-evaluating their stance on some of the gun laws in this country.
When you have innocent people at a concert, that are going out for a night of ‘fun’ and get mowed down with an AR, that’s a bit concerning!
When you have a group of peaceful people going to their place of worship and they get mowed down with an AR, that’s a bit concerning! And let’s not forget about the 18 month old baby and 77 year old woman.
Originally Posted By: Bad DawgI never once mentioned that. The fact of the matter is mass shooters are using semi-auto handguns and ar style rifles more than any other type of gun. It’s a fact that needs to be brought to attention and discussed.
A cigarette smoker does not get to smudge the facts and state cigarettes do not cause cancer just because he or she smokes. The fact remains that cigarette smoking is linked to cancer.
yeah but cigarettes kill far more than guns and nobody is protesting them. the drugs flowing over our southern border kills and destroys far more people than all guns, including ARs. it is all relevant to what the MSM wants to shove our noses in and say; HEAR HERE AND FEAR THIS NOW!!! THIS MUST BE STOPPED!!! i mean come on now... how many innocent people have to die from drunk drivers before we say; "Our right to travel unmolested" does grant us rights to automobiles. there are common sense measures that could be placed in every vehicle that could help curve the intoxicated person from starting the vehicle, technology that could disable phones and other electronics from being used while the vehicle is in motion. we could cap all speed limits at 25 mph and save countless lives, but what is an acceptable death count when compared to our going nowhere and getting there fast American culture.
it is an issue but it is a smoke and mirror issue over prioritized by the MSM. you are far more likely to die in a car crash from a drunk or distracted driver than you are getting killed in a mass shooting. your loved one is more likely to have their lives destroyed by drugs than mass shooting. with smokers the statistics are off the chart.
now think about the number of people wounded in these attacks and how they survived being shot with a 223. how many would not have survived being shot with a 30-06, had the shooter been armed with an M1 garand and 10 round bandoliers. stick a bayonet on it too, the MSM could really play into the masses fear factor with that..
these too are are "facts that need to be brought to attention and discussed"
A cigarette smoker does not get to smudge the facts and state cigarettes do not cause cancer just because he or she smokes. The fact remains that cigarette smoking is linked to cancer.
yeah but cigarettes kill far more than guns and nobody is protesting them. the drugs flowing over our southern border kills and destroys far more people than all guns, including ARs. it is all relevant to what the MSM wants to shove our noses in and say; HEAR HERE AND FEAR THIS NOW!!! THIS MUST BE STOPPED!!! i mean come on now... how many innocent people have to die from drunk drivers before we say; "Our right to travel unmolested" does grant us rights to automobiles. there are common sense measures that could be placed in every vehicle that could help curve the intoxicated person from starting the vehicle, technology that could disable phones and other electronics from being used while the vehicle is in motion. we could cap all speed limits at 25 mph and save countless lives, but what is an acceptable death count when compared to our going nowhere and getting there fast American culture.
it is an issue but it is a smoke and mirror issue over prioritized by the MSM. you are far more likely to die in a car crash from a drunk or distracted driver than you are getting killed in a mass shooting. your loved one is more likely to have their lives destroyed by drugs than mass shooting. with smokers the statistics are off the chart.
now think about the number of people wounded in these attacks and how they survived being shot with a 223. how many would not have survived being shot with a 30-06, had the shooter been armed with an M1 garand and 10 round bandoliers. stick a bayonet on it too, the MSM could really play into the masses fear factor with that..
these too are are "facts that need to be brought to attention and discussed"
Bad Dawg
New member
Infedel, there are laws put in place that do prevent many innocent lives from being taken from drunk drivers. If those laws were not in place the numbers of innocent casualties would be much higher. With all due respect, your point is invalid.
A smoker is inflicting damage on themselves all while knowing the consequences of their actions. Yes, back in the day the innocent have suffered due to the actions of smokers. Example being when smoking was allowed in public places. There have been laws put in place to minimize the damage done to innocent bystanders from cigarette smoking. Again, your point is invalid.
My point with smoking was used to show a different point.
A smoker is inflicting damage on themselves all while knowing the consequences of their actions. Yes, back in the day the innocent have suffered due to the actions of smokers. Example being when smoking was allowed in public places. There have been laws put in place to minimize the damage done to innocent bystanders from cigarette smoking. Again, your point is invalid.
My point with smoking was used to show a different point.
SlickerThanSnot
New member
uh oh. now you did it infidel. you are going to get one of these replies.
Originally Posted By: Bad DawgIf you want to throw in every other issue of the world into this topic, please don’t respond to my posts. It’s just a way to get the attention off of the topic at hand.
Originally Posted By: Bad DawgIf you want to throw in every other issue of the world into this topic, please don’t respond to my posts. It’s just a way to get the attention off of the topic at hand.
Bad Dawg
New member
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotuh oh. now you did it infidel. you are going to get one of these replies.
Originally Posted By: Bad DawgIf you want to throw in every other issue of the world into this topic, please don’t respond to my posts. It’s just a way to get the attention off of the topic at hand.
Change your screen name to SlickerThanNot. It’s much more fitting. You’re blind and I won’t be wasting my time replying to your immature comments.
Originally Posted By: Bad DawgIf you want to throw in every other issue of the world into this topic, please don’t respond to my posts. It’s just a way to get the attention off of the topic at hand.
Change your screen name to SlickerThanNot. It’s much more fitting. You’re blind and I won’t be wasting my time replying to your immature comments.
Plant.One
Well-known member
gee - if only somewhere, somehow, some legislator would have the stones to just step up and make murder illegal, this wouldnt be an issue.
[/sarcasm]
restricting people who use legal things responsibly will do NOTHING to stop those who are evil from abusing them.
thats why they're called criminals. they dont care about the law or whats right or wrong. they're going to do harm one way or another.
if this guy had firebombed the church instead of shooting it up would you have suggested that we need to talk about limiting access to gasoline?
and we know for a fact that this guy shouldnt have been able to buy the guns in the first place - his conviction, court marshal and jailtime were never entered into the NICS system by the military.
stop blaming the tool for the evil person using it!
restricting people who use legal things responsibly will do NOTHING to stop those who are evil from abusing them.
thats why they're called criminals. they dont care about the law or whats right or wrong. they're going to do harm one way or another.
if this guy had firebombed the church instead of shooting it up would you have suggested that we need to talk about limiting access to gasoline?
and we know for a fact that this guy shouldnt have been able to buy the guns in the first place - his conviction, court marshal and jailtime were never entered into the NICS system by the military.
stop blaming the tool for the evil person using it!
SlickerThanSnot
New member
until they come up with something to scan a human baby brain at birth, and can positively tell if that baby is 99.9 percent likely to commit murders, or screw up and cause a death at some point in its life, there aint much to be done about any of it.
Bad Dawg
New member
Originally Posted By: Plant.Onegee - if only somewhere, somehow, some legislator would have the stones to just step up and make murder illegal, this wouldnt be an issue.
[/sarcasm]
restricting people who use legal things responsibly will do NOTHING to stop those who are evil from abusing them.
thats why they're called criminals. they dont care about the law or whats right or wrong. they're going to do harm one way or another.
if this guy had firebombed the church instead of shooting it up would you have suggested that we need to talk about limiting access to gasoline?
and we know for a fact that this guy shouldnt have been able to buy the guns in the first place - his conviction, court marshal and jailtime were never entered into the NICS system by the military.
stop blaming the tool for the evil person using it!
Stating a fact is not blaming.
Ok. Let’s look at it from another point of view. Shall we allow citizens to posses tanks, rockets, military aircraft and even nukes? Why do we not allow this? The answer is simple. Because in the wrong hands these instruments can cause a significant amount of damage to a population in a very short time.
restricting people who use legal things responsibly will do NOTHING to stop those who are evil from abusing them.
thats why they're called criminals. they dont care about the law or whats right or wrong. they're going to do harm one way or another.
if this guy had firebombed the church instead of shooting it up would you have suggested that we need to talk about limiting access to gasoline?
and we know for a fact that this guy shouldnt have been able to buy the guns in the first place - his conviction, court marshal and jailtime were never entered into the NICS system by the military.
stop blaming the tool for the evil person using it!
Stating a fact is not blaming.
Ok. Let’s look at it from another point of view. Shall we allow citizens to posses tanks, rockets, military aircraft and even nukes? Why do we not allow this? The answer is simple. Because in the wrong hands these instruments can cause a significant amount of damage to a population in a very short time.
Originally Posted By: Bad DawgInfedel, there are laws put in place that do prevent many innocent lives from being taken from drunk drivers. If those laws were not in place the numbers of innocent casualties would be much higher. With all due respect, your point is invalid.
A smoker is inflicting damage on themselves all while knowing the consequences of their actions. Yes, back in the day the innocent have suffered due to the actions of smokers. Example being when smoking was allowed in public places. There have been laws put in place to minimize the damage done to innocent bystanders from cigarette smoking. Again, your point is invalid.
My point with smoking was used to show a different point.
My points were also used as simple analogies as well, however the numbers are there. According to the CDC; 1,300 die a day from smoking, tobacco companies need new customers to fill their spots. What is the legal age of consent and at what age do most people start smoking? In their teens before they reach the age of consent. So a teenager who starts smoking is doing so with total awareness of the consequences of their actions? I started smoking at 14 and worrying about my health in old age was not a top priority, plus I told myself I would not get addicted. Tobacco companies are part of a sinister multi-billion dollar industry that targets our youth.
And yes there are laws that prevent many innocent people from being killed by drunk drivers and car crashes, just as there are laws to protect innocent from being killed by gun violence. But I fear any government restrictions when it comes to firearms. Even if it is “just” AR-15s today, it will be “just fill in the blank” tomorrow. This is a moral issue of what we are becoming, not an AR-15 issue.
A smoker is inflicting damage on themselves all while knowing the consequences of their actions. Yes, back in the day the innocent have suffered due to the actions of smokers. Example being when smoking was allowed in public places. There have been laws put in place to minimize the damage done to innocent bystanders from cigarette smoking. Again, your point is invalid.
My point with smoking was used to show a different point.
My points were also used as simple analogies as well, however the numbers are there. According to the CDC; 1,300 die a day from smoking, tobacco companies need new customers to fill their spots. What is the legal age of consent and at what age do most people start smoking? In their teens before they reach the age of consent. So a teenager who starts smoking is doing so with total awareness of the consequences of their actions? I started smoking at 14 and worrying about my health in old age was not a top priority, plus I told myself I would not get addicted. Tobacco companies are part of a sinister multi-billion dollar industry that targets our youth.
And yes there are laws that prevent many innocent people from being killed by drunk drivers and car crashes, just as there are laws to protect innocent from being killed by gun violence. But I fear any government restrictions when it comes to firearms. Even if it is “just” AR-15s today, it will be “just fill in the blank” tomorrow. This is a moral issue of what we are becoming, not an AR-15 issue.
"In the wrong hands" there are a lot of 'instruments' that can cause a significant amount of damage to a population in a very short time. Cars, planes, cans of gas and matches, chainsaws, propane canisters, and machetes come to mind for instance. Uh oh, I am in possession of all of these items but a plane. Am I in trouble?
Originally Posted By: Bad DawgOriginally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotQuote:mass shooters are using semi-auto handguns and ar style rifles more than any other type of gun. It’s a fact that needs to be brought to attention and discussed.
it is discussed every time something happens. the gun grabbers love to bring it to attention and discuss it.
do you have a solution you would like to suggest?
I don’t believe these are all ‘gun grabbers’ anymore. There are many responsible gun owners that are being labeled as such because they are re-evaluating their stance on some of the gun laws in this country.
As in every attempt at gun control, MSM and those who wish to ban guns always begin by driving a wedge between the different disciplines within the pro 2A group. In this case, bolt gun/shotgun hunters vs AR enthusiasts. It is a common tactic used by the left, and is extremely effective as demonstrated by Obama on all facets of US citizens over the past 8 years.
When you have innocent people at a concert, that are going out for a night of ‘fun’ and get mowed down with an AR, that’s a bit concerning!
When you have a group of peaceful people going to their place of worship and they get mowed down with an AR, that’s a bit concerning! And let’s not forget about the 18 month old baby and 77 year old woman.
Each occurance of violence directed at innocent citizens @ any venue is heartbreaking. Unfortunately, those bent on carrying out such dastardly deeds will find the means to do so. If not a gun, an IED or a truck or other vehicle.
-
Quote:evil will find a tool, usually the closest tool to hand, and use it. the tool itself is just that a tool, and doesnt know its being used by someone evil or someone good.
As Jeremy stated, someone with a 30-06 Garand could have wreaked much more havoc than with a 5.56. I would add that many would be amazed at the rate of accurate fire which can be obtained by a proficient operator using a bolt gun in the more powerful calibers.
thankfully in this instance a good guy with an ar-15 stopped a bad guy with an ar-15 - unfortunatly it wasnt as soon as some of us might have liked.
A few points which need to be pounded home to the gun grabbers and, for that matter, all lawmakers who are horrified at the senseless acts carried out by mentally afflicted perpetrators using firearms to carry out their warped agenda. Not that it will do any good, as the gun-grabbers' minds are made up and nothing we say will change their agenda. Our only hope is that those reasonably open minded lawmakers (and citizens), who are honestly looking for solutions will realize that:
1) Mentally deranged individuals/criminals are not concerned with any gun laws when their agenda is to terrorize the public and/or murder one or more victims. MURDER IS AGAINST THE LAW!
2) Most, if not all mass shooters have one common trait, they are either mentally defective or taking mind altering drugs.
3) As evidenced years of prohibition and many more years of prohibitive drug laws, people will obtain the prohibited item one way or another.
4) Even if it were possible to completely eliminate firearms, evil people will find other devices equally or perhaps even more deadly to accomplish their warped objective.
Gunfacts & Statistics
Unfortunately, times have changed in recent years, and not for the better. The best defense is to be alert, aware of our surroundings and have a plan of action should the need arise.
God bless the victims @ Sutherland Springs.
Regards,
hm
it is discussed every time something happens. the gun grabbers love to bring it to attention and discuss it.
do you have a solution you would like to suggest?
I don’t believe these are all ‘gun grabbers’ anymore. There are many responsible gun owners that are being labeled as such because they are re-evaluating their stance on some of the gun laws in this country.
As in every attempt at gun control, MSM and those who wish to ban guns always begin by driving a wedge between the different disciplines within the pro 2A group. In this case, bolt gun/shotgun hunters vs AR enthusiasts. It is a common tactic used by the left, and is extremely effective as demonstrated by Obama on all facets of US citizens over the past 8 years.
When you have innocent people at a concert, that are going out for a night of ‘fun’ and get mowed down with an AR, that’s a bit concerning!
When you have a group of peaceful people going to their place of worship and they get mowed down with an AR, that’s a bit concerning! And let’s not forget about the 18 month old baby and 77 year old woman.
Each occurance of violence directed at innocent citizens @ any venue is heartbreaking. Unfortunately, those bent on carrying out such dastardly deeds will find the means to do so. If not a gun, an IED or a truck or other vehicle.
-
Quote:evil will find a tool, usually the closest tool to hand, and use it. the tool itself is just that a tool, and doesnt know its being used by someone evil or someone good.
As Jeremy stated, someone with a 30-06 Garand could have wreaked much more havoc than with a 5.56. I would add that many would be amazed at the rate of accurate fire which can be obtained by a proficient operator using a bolt gun in the more powerful calibers.
thankfully in this instance a good guy with an ar-15 stopped a bad guy with an ar-15 - unfortunatly it wasnt as soon as some of us might have liked.
A few points which need to be pounded home to the gun grabbers and, for that matter, all lawmakers who are horrified at the senseless acts carried out by mentally afflicted perpetrators using firearms to carry out their warped agenda. Not that it will do any good, as the gun-grabbers' minds are made up and nothing we say will change their agenda. Our only hope is that those reasonably open minded lawmakers (and citizens), who are honestly looking for solutions will realize that:
1) Mentally deranged individuals/criminals are not concerned with any gun laws when their agenda is to terrorize the public and/or murder one or more victims. MURDER IS AGAINST THE LAW!
2) Most, if not all mass shooters have one common trait, they are either mentally defective or taking mind altering drugs.
3) As evidenced years of prohibition and many more years of prohibitive drug laws, people will obtain the prohibited item one way or another.
4) Even if it were possible to completely eliminate firearms, evil people will find other devices equally or perhaps even more deadly to accomplish their warped objective.
Gunfacts & Statistics
Unfortunately, times have changed in recent years, and not for the better. The best defense is to be alert, aware of our surroundings and have a plan of action should the need arise.
God bless the victims @ Sutherland Springs.
Regards,
hm
interview with the man who stopped him (who used his own AR-15):
Bad Dawg
New member
Well, in closing I’ll just share some personal info. I own three bolt guns for hunting, a shotgun for hunting and home protection and a small caliber handgun for protection. I have owned an AR and also a Ruger mini. I found no use whatsoever for either of these rifles and decided to get rid of them.
I am not opposed to others owning AR’s. My good friend that I hunt with on a regular basis hunts with one and I have no problem with it. It’s his choice.
But I have to be honest. Some will judge me for saying this and some may not, but I have the courage to say it anyway, whether in person or via the internet. After all of these shootings and knowing full well the preferred weapon of these shooters, I am not a big fan of them and will never own one in the future. If there were mass killings happening on a regular basis (and increasing by date and casualties) with spoons, I would have to re-evaluate my relationship with spoons. That’s just how I choose to live my life.
For all who decided to have a mature conversation, thanks.
Have a good day!
I am not opposed to others owning AR’s. My good friend that I hunt with on a regular basis hunts with one and I have no problem with it. It’s his choice.
But I have to be honest. Some will judge me for saying this and some may not, but I have the courage to say it anyway, whether in person or via the internet. After all of these shootings and knowing full well the preferred weapon of these shooters, I am not a big fan of them and will never own one in the future. If there were mass killings happening on a regular basis (and increasing by date and casualties) with spoons, I would have to re-evaluate my relationship with spoons. That’s just how I choose to live my life.
For all who decided to have a mature conversation, thanks.
Have a good day!
littledawg
New member
I think people understand what you are saying. Most folks are worried and rightfully so, that if AR's go away, the shooter(s) will simply switch weapons. Then that particular weapon of choice will be added to the list. How will you personally feel when they finally work their way down the list to your beloved bolt guns? There are mass killings in some part of the world on a weekly basis that do not involve a firearm. Folks are simply saying that banning a particular weapon of choice will not stop a person from performing an act of evil. Didn't chicken poop and diesel fuel kill more than the last 10 mass shootings combined?
You seem like a reasonable guy, thus don't you agree it will not stop regardless of what is banned or restricted?
You seem like a reasonable guy, thus don't you agree it will not stop regardless of what is banned or restricted?