When Breeding or Buying......

I beleive they either have it or they don't. Breeding is everything and that is what I am trying to get out on this post. What someone is breeding for may be completly different than what I want.
I ran curs for over 10 years, they did not suit me. They did not have enough prey drive ( range/Grit)for me. I didn't notice it as much til I moved to Colorado and started riding my mule into calling spots and by the time I got there the curs would be hunting shade. Most breeds of curs were developed to hunt Squirrels, Daryl Fry's Striker dog was a Squirrel dog that they converted over to a coyote and a biggame dog.
Have I seen some good curs? Yes. Do they suit what I want? No, but still very nice dogs I would be proud to own. But i want something different.
I know I have ruined plenty of dogs on the range part, i was worried about them getting out of site and would shock them back until they just wont go anymore.
I have had some pretty bad wrecks involving serveral coytes and one dog, It never ruined the dog as bad as I did with a shock collar.
 
Great questions Dustballs. I just want to tweak a bit to perhaps also get at my questions.

Devin, can you "develop" more grit and/or longer range via exposure, experiences and traning? "not satire" (-:

OOps Devin, you were too quick for me. Story of my life.
 
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Originally Posted By: Devin69
I know I have ruined plenty of dogs on the range part, i was worried about them getting out of site and would shock them back until they just wont go anymore.
I have had some pretty bad wrecks involving serveral coytes and one dog, It never ruined the dog as bad as I did with a shock collar.

Heads up guys. This is the good stuff. Read it again and again! Tucker ranges out great, only because I dialed into this info a couple of years ago or I would have made her a lap dog on stands because I was so worried about her.

I haven't had to shock her for months. And she would have to do something that literally put her life in danger before I would shock her when hunting. And I'm not talking about in danger of a coyote(s).

Also, I don't or allow any petting, praising or talking to the dog on a stand 'til it's all over.
 
That is one thing that I have noticed is Zipper has quite a bit more stamina than my catahoula. She will range real well and be busy the first two or three stands then she is looking for a place to lay down. If a coyote comes in she will go to it but I want the dogs out and about the whole time.
 
Devin, tell us about those terriers you are breeding up. Would a pic be too much to ask?

I promise not to call your post an ad.
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As I have told you before I would have prefered that Tucker stopped growing around that 39lb mark rather than the full 50lbs in shape where she ended up.

What size are you going for?

Do the smaller dogs have more stamina?
 
iv'e had huntin dogs for close to 35 yrs, most fur dogs some bird dogs but never a decoy dog. i have a question, alot of responces have said "fast". my dog is fast? when i send it after a coyote or tone it back it has to be fast... define fast? fast like a coyote? [beeep] iv'e seen coyotes outrun greyhounds here, how is a cur gonna catch a coyote, either that or kansas has some [beeep] fast coyotes.grit? here is another term that has alot of grey area... i want a dog with alot of grit, ok everyone be honest how many single handed coyotes killers has anyone witnessed day in and day out? ive seen hounds get whipped, not hound, hounds.ive seen one that could kill a coyote if he had him in tight quarters,brushpile to be exact.ive seen 3 or sometimes 4 stags scoop one up just to watch it fight its way to cover of a tube where the dogs couldn't reach it. i have seen a few stags, mostly males weighing near 80 lbs kill a coyote but not day in and day out. and really thats all there good for catching and killing. now how does one expect a dog that weighs 35 to 50 lbs(seems to be the size preference wanted)
to be able to run down and catch a 30 lb coyote and then destroy it by themself when a dog that has been here for a LONG time the (stag), cant do it consistently.

back to the subject at hand...
 
I was one who mentioned 'fast'.
All I know is my pup can run in front of my ATV @ 30mph and look back over his shoulder at me smiling. And he can turn on a dime like an F-16. Some dogs look like they're going fast, but they ain't. Some dogs look like their trotting when they are really flying. A coyote would have to be pretty pizzed off to pin it's ears back & catch him.

That said, I don't want my pup to run down & 'catch' a coyote anyway. That notion kinda goes 180 degrees in the opposite direction of what a decoy dog is for, don't you think? There are dogs bred for that & thinking my pup would catch a coyote would be as silly as thinking a stag or hot blood grey would decoy one. I don't have any illusions otherwise...

As for killing a coyote & grit, you made the point I mentioned earlier. I don't think grit isn't going to do a decoy dog here in NY much good. The coyotes are too big to face off with, so I'd rather he tuck tail & bring 'em back to me then stand toe to toe with one & get wrecked. Which would be where speed would come into play.

Just hypothesizing...




 
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Fast?

Tucker is a relative of Knockemdown's pup.

We are fortunate to live on place that allows Tucker to get 5 to 10 miles a couple of times a day running along with the Rubicon and looking for and often finding an interesting critter. She has a greyhound like build and gait. She is, always has been and stays legged up and can really cover the miles. Stamina is not an issue for her and she does have some speed. But I have spent a life time in dog wagons with Grey/Stag Hounds.

Dogs.jpg


She certainly wouldn't keep up with those packs in a short or long race. Different Fast!
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Just now getting to this, I'll share my thoughts.
I want hot nose... I use dogs everyday, and don't want to be chasing old tracks.
I want enough grit to hold a cripple, but they don't have to kill.... I have a pistol, or pocketknife for that.
Brains a must....Ilike easy to train.
Range.... some will some won't,
I have pups out of the same litter, that at 10 months, one will range a 1/4 mile, and another won't get out of my pocket. Guys all want what they want.I like a dog to range about 300yrds, and circle back to me. Some guys want a dog to sit at there side, and not leave till a shot is fired. Whatever suits someone I guess.Thats is a good match for a dog that don't range much.
I have ruined dogs in the past by training them to stay to close. Just like I have changed my thoughts in what I want from a dog, I have changed my breeding and training to try and get those results.
Decoying works best for just a few months out of the year, I need my dogs to do other things, the rest of the time.I work cattle hunt other game,bloodtrail, each is better at one task than another.
I have a few dogs here that work for me, that others would not like, and freinds(you know who you are) have dogs that get it done for them, but I don't want. Thats the great thing about dogs, each litter is diff, each hunter is diff, if the breeder is honest, a good match can be made with a hunter and a dog.
As for Dustballs dog "Zipper" He came out of a breeding here,most of the pups given a chance, hunted good, but were not just what I wanted.(To much voice, to much nose,to big)Zip was my personal dog, and I was hunting the heck out of him (16 months old) till Dustballs wanted him.He hunted over the dog here, and purchased the dog. That cross (catahoulla x Black and Tan)
was not made again.
 
Great post guys!!!! I am VERY interested in a decoy dog. I had a chance to pick a pup up a few weeks ago but decided to wait. I have ran hounds for about 10 years now and I started with puppies when I got into hounds. Don't think I want to go that way with Decoy dogs I am going to be searching for a started dog here in a while. But I am wondering if any one thinks I can run a decoy dog with my hounds. And not screw them up to bad. I saw Devin ask the question about switching game with one dog. So you guys that have experience with both what do you think can it be done? Can I hunt Coyotes, Lions, Bobcats, Badgers, Coons with one dog or not. Cause if there is such thing out there I would switch in a heart beat!!!!!!!!!
 
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1iv'e had huntin dogs for close to 35 yrs, most fur dogs some bird dogs but never a decoy dog. i have a question, alot of responces have said "fast". my dog is fast? when i send it after a coyote or tone it back it has to be fast... define fast? fast like a coyote? [beeep] iv'e seen coyotes outrun greyhounds here, how is a cur gonna catch a coyote, either that or kansas has some [beeep] fast coyotes.grit? here is another term that has alot of grey area... i want a dog with alot of grit, ok everyone be honest how many single handed coyotes killers has anyone witnessed day in and day out? ive seen hounds get whipped, not hound, hounds.ive seen one that could kill a coyote if he had him in tight quarters,brushpile to be exact.ive seen 3 or sometimes 4 stags scoop one up just to watch it fight its way to cover of a tube where the dogs couldn't reach it. i have seen a few stags, mostly males weighing near 80 lbs kill a coyote but not day in and day out. and really thats all there good for catching and killing. now how does one expect a dog that weighs 35 to 50 lbs(seems to be the size preference wanted)
to be able to run down and catch a 30 lb coyote and then destroy it by themself when a dog that has been here for a LONG time the (stag), cant do it consistently.

back to the subject at hand...


I have one dog that I would say is fast, real fast but I know he cant catch a healthy coyote. I have let him try and he will give it his all and is fun to watch but cant do it. When I talk about grit I am talking about the dogs running down and having enough grit to hold a wounded coyote till I get there if they kill it fine but like I said I dont want to be chasing a wounded coyote and dogs all over the country side all day long. I will have to reread I dont remember anyone saying they wanted their decoy dog to run down and catch and then destroy a coyote by themself.
 
Originally Posted By: Duane@ssuJust now getting to this, I'll share my thoughts.
I want hot nose... I use dogs everyday, and don't want to be chasing old tracks.
I want enough grit to hold a cripple, but they don't have to kill.... I have a pistol, or pocketknife for that.
Brains a must....Ilike easy to train.
Range.... some will some won't,
I have pups out of the same litter, that at 10 months, one will range a 1/4 mile, and another won't get out of my pocket. Guys all want what they want.I like a dog to range about 300yrds, and circle back to me. Some guys want a dog to sit at there side, and not leave till a shot is fired. Whatever suits someone I guess.Thats is a good match for a dog that don't range much.
I have ruined dogs in the past by training them to stay to close. Just like I have changed my thoughts in what I want from a dog, I have changed my breeding and training to try and get those results.
Decoying works best for just a few months out of the year, I need my dogs to do other things, the rest of the time.I work cattle hunt other game,bloodtrail, each is better at one task than another.
I have a few dogs here that work for me, that others would not like, and freinds(you know who you are) have dogs that get it done for them, but I don't want. Thats the great thing about dogs, each litter is diff, each hunter is diff, if the breeder is honest, a good match can be made with a hunter and a dog.
As for Dustballs dog "Zipper" He came out of a breeding here,most of the pups given a chance, hunted good, but were not just what I wanted.(To much voice, to much nose,to big)Zip was my personal dog, and I was hunting the heck out of him (16 months old) till Dustballs wanted him.He hunted over the dog here, and purchased the dog. That cross (catahoulla x Black and Tan)
was not made again.

Boy does Zipper have a nose. Other than a very cold nose and too much voice is there other reasons you would not make the cross again? I am happy with Zipper and he fits in with what I am doing. With my two dogs they make a good team. The more I hunt the dogs the more I am figuring out what I would like different in the future. He will be with us till his time to go to the happy hunting grounds.
 
No Dustballs, I was strait, "to much nose, to much voice, and to big".
You know how well I liked him, just trying to change a few things.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleCKDevin, tell us about those terriers you are breeding up. Would a pic be too much to ask?

They say a picture is worth a thousand words
e8o2ef.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: CDH But I am wondering if any one thinks I can run a decoy dog with my hounds. And not screw them up to bad. I saw Devin ask the question about switching game with one dog. So you guys that have experience with both what do you think can it be done? Can I hunt Coyotes, Lions, Bobcats, Badgers, Coons with one dog or not. Cause if there is such thing out there I would switch in a heart beat!!!!!!!!! Colby, I think you can but you better have some pretty good check dogs. There are alot more coyotes than lion in your area so if you don't mind them running coyotes when you are out lion hunting then have some good check dogs and Tri Tronics on the rest.
 
dustballs that is the answer i was looking/hoping to read.
i dont believe you have to go back and reread posts,there is a grand illusion of what dogs can and cant do.


devin, i'm curious as to the breed of your terrier? is this something you have been working on for a while? it looks fairly small are you using it for groundwork or going to the mall? i'm trying to figure the cross but maybe coming up short...taco bell and a hairdresser? just guessin.
 
Devin, other than not wanting a lazy dog, why dont you tell us more about what you are trying to gwt frim your breeding, and how you are doing it. If this thread is about learning, how bout you start teaching. And dont just say " my dogs need brains and know im the boss"

Lets hear some honest info here. Put as much into your description as you are looking for from everyone else.
 
Originally Posted By: Devin69Originally Posted By: DoubleCKDevin, tell us about those terriers you are breeding up. Would a pic be too much to ask?

They say a picture is worth a thousand words
e8o2ef.jpg



I didn't know grit came in 'passive aggressive' flavor?
 
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