Time for us to move on...Thank you for your years of support!

Originally Posted By: Init4thekillReb8600,
Your strong defense of this decision leads me to believe this was something you were behind. When I first read this I thought there was no way this was something you could have supported. You have always been a man of integrity, honesty and someone I have always looked up to! I have always felt like you were someone I could go into battle with! This shows what power and authority can do to anyone. I expect this from Mo, but I am saddened that you would support betraying the loyalty of a company! Twice I have see you give the Will Craig award thanking them for their loyalty and support and for making PM what it. Is today. PM was a place where differences of opinion and open dialog were welcomed. That’s what makes forums great! Every member could see all products and sponsors based on what the sponsor was willing to sign up for, not what the board thinks they need to see. What’s next the sensor-ship of members because the board doesn’t like their opinion? I am shocked and saddened that you were in support of this decision

In all fairness, that's a pretty big opinion to form about someones character over all but maybe 4 sentences on the subject. There are more people on here than just him that run things. Which I assume they all vote on judgment calls such as this. Even if he didn't support it and everyone else did, what is he to do? Get on here and slam everyone that are part of the team?
 
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Drama. As the world turns, days of our lives, soap operas in general create a following with people both pro and con about the actors. On websites, it creates hits, unique ip address's. High numbers attract advertisers. So, what does this have to do with the subject, nothing.

This controversial advertisement deal happened exactly on what date? How many administrators did we have at the time? Was the vote unanimous to make this deal? If there was a dissenter, who was it?

These people hired each other to run this site, did you vote for any of them? The answer to that is they voted for each other. Some of them I would not have voted for. This is an example of what happens when the site is run in the old fashioned way. Not looking for a way to stay ahead of the curve. What else is going on?

Everything is moving at a thousand miles an hour in our world today, and some of the people can't handle a hundred an hour.

This site needs funds to operate. They can get them in more than one way, even with the constraints of being a non-profit. Forward thinking people could figure a way to do that. Sponsors are only the beginning. Have you ever wondered why CEO's make millions, because they are worth it!!!!

NGI TOM, If I were you, I would do the exact same thing as you have done in the past. You have a following here, seems they like you. Play the game.

 
Originally Posted By: Init4thekillStay silent, let those who made the decision speak!

I wasn't involved in the decision but I'll speak my piece as an almost 20 year member.

I find it VERY VERY ironic that you have been here for 11 years, have under 10 post and most all of those is staunchly defending NG and now your all of a sudden motivated to post and "contribute" to the forum after this change??? I also find it "ironic" your from Utah and so is Tom???

As a member I gladly welcome the change. I'm not in favor of any monopoly and IMO the monopoly that Nightgoggles and Foxpro had is why the site is financially struggling today. The lack of funds is why its such a challenge to update this site that is in so much need. It not only needs it but the members want it also. The BOD is trying to do whats in the best interests of the forum in the long run. The decision was NOT made by one person it was made by a VOTE OF THE BOD.

The days of old are gone, no longer are decisions made by one or two guys like when Jeff Mock and Redfrog dictated here. Moving forward all decisions will be made by a vote through the BOD, not just financially but also down to things like banning a member. This decision is not just on SnowmanMo, it was made by the entire BOD and thats as fair and transparent as it gets.

Nightgoggles has had a monopoly here the last 20 years, NO OTHER dealer was allowed the opportunity to even be a sponsor here, period. How is that fair???

The new tier 1 sponser is WILLING to allow competition, they are WILLING to allow other dealers be sponsers here, why wouldn't Nightgoggles allow or welcome that??

Now the playing field is truly level, ANYONE can become a sponser and that allows this site to have diversified sponsorship and is equal to all dealers/manufacturers in the predator hunting industry.

Nightgoggles has an opportunity to be a partner here, many opportunities actually, they wasn't asked to leave, they are choosing to do so on their own accord. I appreciate their support in the past and hopefully they reconsider and become a partner in the future.
 
Why only a single tier 1 sponser---fellas, competition drives the world and for the most part is a benefit to all.

Also, why weren't the sponsors billed if that is in fact what happened.
 
Originally Posted By: Init4thekillStay silent, let those who made the decision speak!

Did You?


All I know is a very few months ago this place was doomed! There is now a group of individuals with a vision to breathe life back into it. Many, if not all of the decisions they make will bear weight. Some, will be unpopular. Some, won't be understandable to the general membership.

Was this a good decision for the future of the site?
I won't be the judge, time will.

Transparency. The price of transparency is withstanding the ridicule of those whom disagree. SO FAR, the BOD has been willing to pay that price.

BOD, I support you in your efforts to revive this place. They are, after all, YOUR EFFORTS. Without them, this place was surely doomed!
 
Has anyone asked out loud about any financial/business relationships between board members & the new tier 1 sponsor?

And if PM choses to use a tiered sponsorship model, why was tier 1 not offered to other sponsors for application or bidding or negotiation?
 
Originally Posted By: jmeddyWhy only a single tier 1 sponser---fellas, competition drives the world and for the most part is a benefit to all.

Also, why weren't the sponsors billed if that is in fact what happened.

Great question, maybe moving forward the policy can be looked at allowing more tier 1 sponser.

I think the reason the billing got looked over is how quickly the structure changed and who's responsibility changed.

My understanding is Jeff Mock and Redfrog quit the same week and essentially all that was left was SnowmanMo and Stu to work it out. Thats a pretty daunting task to have thrown in your face like that and I'm glad they took the initiative to work through it and keep the site going.
 
For the record I personally know all of them! I am pointing out that picking only 1 tier 1 sponsor is a [beeep] back door move! Why wouldn’t they just set Tier pricing and let sponsors choose which one they want to pay for? Why make a deal with only one? And then hide behind the deal is confidential? If they are trying to save the site like they say they should get as much sponsorship as they can! Also Why wouldn’t you reach out to your current sponsor to help you figure out a way forward together? Reading the posts it’s clear they didn’t manage their current sponsors correctly.
 
"Transparency. The price of transparency is withstanding the ridicule of those whom disagree. SO FAR, the BOD has been willing to pay that price."

I disagree, There are degrees of transparency, 10% will qualify as transparent. I would like to see 90%. What is worth hiding? We don't need to know who voted for what, we would feel more included if we knew what the vote was in yea's and nay's. Is that so hard? It is if you have something to hide.

The all volunteer BOD's creates a challenge, MO, wastes his valuable time answering posts criticizing PM. when he could use his available time on more worthwhile issues. Like what to do with this site, and bringing the members closer together.

Right now we have a somewhat divided community. I don't like the them and us that is going on right now. Constructive criticism, is useful.

We now have a BOD for better or worse that does listen to the membership. So, tell them what you would like to see happen.
 
Originally Posted By: Init4thekillFor the record I personally know all of them! I am pointing out that picking only 1 tier 1 sponsor is a [beeep] back door move! Why wouldn’t they just set Tier pricing and let sponsors choose which one they want to pay for? Why make a deal with only one? And then hide behind the deal is confidential? If they are trying to save the site like they say they should get as much sponsorship as they can! Also Why wouldn’t you reach out to your current sponsor to help you figure out a way forward together? Reading the posts it’s clear they didn’t manage their current sponsors correctly.


So you think only having one tier 1 sponser that didn't allow ANY competition or other sponsers, and had a monopoly is better than having one tier 1 sponser that welcomes competition and allows other sponsors is worse and backdoor dealing???

Your leaving out the part that we currently have ZERO sponsers, Nightgoggles hadn't paid and was advertising for free. Do you not think anyone from Nightgoggles also has a responsibility to see why they wasn't invoiced or actually reach out to our leadership when our site is struggling???
 
"Your leaving out the part that we currently have ZERO sponsers, Nightgoggles hadn't paid and was advertising for free. Do you not think anyone from Nightgoggles also has a responsibility to see why they wasn't invoiced or actually reach out to our leadership when our site is struggling???"

Trying to shift the blame ain't gonna work.

When a 20 year relationship is set aside and a deal is struck with their competitor, something looks wrong, even to a third-grader. There are more than a few things wrong with this and a lot of other way PM does business.
 
Originally Posted By: Kino MOriginally Posted By: Init4thekillFor the record I personally know all of them! I am pointing out that picking only 1 tier 1 sponsor is a [beeep] back door move! Why wouldn’t they just set Tier pricing and let sponsors choose which one they want to pay for? Why make a deal with only one? And then hide behind the deal is confidential? If they are trying to save the site like they say they should get as much sponsorship as they can! Also Why wouldn’t you reach out to your current sponsor to help you figure out a way forward together? Reading the posts it’s clear they didn’t manage their current sponsors correctly.


So you think only having one tier 1 sponser that didn't allow ANY competition or other sponsers, had a monopoly is better than having one tier 1 sponser that welcomes competition and alllows other sponsors is worse and backdoor dealing???

Your leaving out the part that we currently have ZERO sponsers, Nightgoggles hadn't paid and was advertising for free. Do you not think anyone from Nightgoggles also has a responsibility to see why they wasn't invoiced or actually reach out to our leadership when our site is struggling???

Now you have MY attention...I've stayed silent up to now only to read your "angle" trying to attack our character here after all we did for PM?? Really here. You have 2 mods already quit and another sponsor pulled out, but according to you it was somehow our fault??

If you read Tom's post early on (did you not??), we have donated in sponsorship, giveaways, over 100 grand for the last decade to this amazing site and happy to do it. He also talked specifically about the non pay.

You keep this up, I WILL tell all about one of your brand new Directors schemes to pay to play several years back. I have all the personal messages, emails and documented phone calls of this event. Follow the money as they say and connect the dots with what is coming for all to see.

As for welcoming competition quote, once again you may want to actually read Tom's post.
 
I know of one sponser that didn't get billed, that got by for a few years before the plug got pulled. I'm sure there was others also.

Can this get blamed on Trump too ?
rolleyes.gif


I've heard plenty of yesteryear stories of the "backroom" happenings that would make lots of members here mad. Don't ask because I'm not discussing it.


Time will tell how things roll on...

Membership here is free, so I'm not complaining about what happens now or next.



Thanks and good luck !
 
Originally Posted By: Icedtea"Your leaving out the part that we currently have ZERO sponsers, Nightgoggles hadn't paid and was advertising for free. Do you not think anyone from Nightgoggles also has a responsibility to see why they wasn't invoiced or actually reach out to our leadership when our site is struggling???"

Trying to shift the blame ain't gonna work.

When a 20 year relationship is set aside and a deal is struck with their competitor, something looks wrong, even to a third-grader. There are more than a few things wrong with this and a lot of other way PM does business.

Icedtea I'm not trying to shift blame at all, I'm simply pointing out that everything is not the BODs fault and IMO NG should have some ownership of not reaching out to someone while advertising for free for at least a year.

I agree that things could have been done differently by the BOD and SnowmanMo said so in the response he posted. Right or wrong the deal was made, it was voted on by the BOD with the best interest in mind for the forum for a change.

BTW, welcome or welcome back, I genuinely appreciate your input and I think members that aren't afraid to ask the tough questions is a very important asset to maintain transparency and integrity.
 
Originally Posted By: Icedtea"Transparency. The price of transparency is withstanding the ridicule of those whom disagree. SO FAR, the BOD has been willing to pay that price."

I disagree, There are degrees of transparency, 10% will qualify as transparent. I would like to see 90%. What is worth hiding? We don't need to know who voted for what, we would feel more included if we knew what the vote was in yea's and nay's. Is that so hard? It is if you have something to hide.

The all volunteer BOD's creates a challenge, MO, wastes his valuable time answering posts criticizing PM. when he could use his available time on more worthwhile issues. Like what to do with this site, and bringing the members closer together.

Right now we have a somewhat divided community. I don't like the them and us that is going on right now. Constructive criticism, is useful.

We now have a BOD for better or worse that does listen to the membership. So, tell them what you would like to see happen.

Thank you for that support Icedtea and thanks for the question...the vote to approve the agreement was unanimous. The vote was blind, no BoD got to see the results until after they voted.
 
Originally Posted By: PirogueSounds like you have good reason to leave. Good luck with new ventures. Changing direction a little, maybe this “new” leadership referenced, will reformat the program like missy hunting forums, to where you don’t have to turn the phone sideways to read the small font format



Yes sir, we are currently working on a web hosting software/site migration project. That is HIGH on our priority list.

As is bringing back the HOM and restarting our conventions.

If there are other things that the membership would like to see feel free to pm me or any of the BoDs and mods and let us know so that we can start making things better.
 
"Jason mentioned that if members have ideas to PM someone with them. How many of you complaining have taken him up on that? I can tell you that none of the complainers have. Only a couple members actually gave."

Are you stating in fact that you have read all his PM's? What do you think about what I said about you?
 
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