The Ultimate Deer Cartridge

I agree with sneaky sniper and some others shot placement is the key. I shoot a 25/06 and always go for the neck it is either a clean miss or a dead deer and they never run. I have missed some trophy bucks but; I felt good about it on my longest shot 363 yards by range finder 13 point buck 2 years ago I didn't have to chase him with the neck shot. A 22 cal. rimfire has probably killed just as many deer as some deer rifles. This is just my 2 cents worth.
Oh by the way I all I am shooting is a winchester 90 grain positive expanding point factory load; who knows what it will do with nosler bullets or sierra bt.

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Don't miss!
 
I know htis is going to tick some people off that like their so called big bore guns. I will say for my deer huntimng i beleive that the 30-06 is the best all around deer cartridge in wisconsin. Why well it will take anything i want it to up to elk or moose, and it works great on deer. I also really like the 308 win. and the win 30-30. the 30-30 has probably dropped more deer than every other deer caliber combined. My aunt is big into balistics but not into hunting. she tought me something called the taylers knockout potential. Basically this tells you how hard your bullet hits based on your caliber, velocity, and bullet diamiter along with bullet weight. To get the answer you take thre bullet diameter x velocityx bullet weight divided by 7000. Ill list some of the knock out potentials with some of the more popular calibers.
30-06 (180 grain @2700 fps)= 21.38
45-70 (530 grain @1550 fps)=53.75
.444 (335 grain @2100 fps)= 43.11
458 win mag (500 grain @ 2066 fps) =67.59
460 weatherby (500 grain @2624 fps)= 85.84
30-30 win. (170 grain @ 2282 fps) = 17.07
30 cal (m1 carbine) (110 grain @1945 = 9.41
338 win mag( 275 grain @ 2577 fps) =34.48
7mm rem mag (140 grain @ 3245 fps)= 18.43
243 win (100 grain @2669 fps) =10.31
308 win (180 grain @2634 fps)= 20.86
450 marlin (350 grain @ 2100 fps)=47.25
Now this was probably a shocker to all you 7mm mag fans but it dont hit as hard as a 30-06 and you take a harder recoil hit. granted the 30-06 is a slower caliber but it still hits harder, this test has nothing to do with range at all(its what the bullet is capable of ). Yuo might just as well shoot a gun with les recoil in my book that also hits harder. The real shock was the 30 30 almost hits as hard as the 7mm mag! The 243 is capable of killing deer out to several hundred yards with well placed shots. Last year i shot a doe with my 243 and she didnt go far. My friend has a 7mm mag and he is afraid to shoot it to the point he flinches with it. We were target practicing with it once and it took him 10 minutes to take the first shot due to the knowledge of the recoil that was ahead. I told him he would have een way better off with a 30-06 and it would kick less. The shells are a hell of a lot cheaper too for that matter. I dont want to pick on the 7mm but i almost bought one but didnt for 2 reasons, 1.) it hits less than the 30-06 or 308 and 2.) you dont have near the reloading potential as you do with the 30-06. This test made me wake up a little and not nessisarily say that just because it says mag dont mean to much. If you guys want ill do the test on your other calibers and put them up. Im using the loads listed in modern relaoding by richard lee along with this formula.
 
anybody want to know about other calibers, i will do any caliber that i have a listing for in my load books. this test really made me wake up and realize plenty about guns and when people say how much more powerful their guns are over other guns when in reality many are not.
 
Brad I am going to try to say this the best I can,don't always believe everything that you read.

Figures and facts are often two different critters.
I am just using the example of the 7 mag and the 06 in this instance for explanation.
I have killed more than a few elk and deer with both calibers and there is a measurable difference.
The 7 mag wins hands down.

That is if you are comparing apples to apples and not just the most common bullet weights for each.

A 7 mag loaded with a Nosler partition in 175 grain is elk medicine extra ordinare, a 06 with a 180 grain Nosler partition is elk medicine pretty dang good.

The 7 will out penetrate it, will shoot flatter , will take out more major bones in the way , will more likely give you an entrance and an exit, and while giving you more velocity also does this with a bullet of greater sectional density.

Now on deer sized critters the point is mute unless you are taking into consideration the flatter trajectory and better ballistic coefficient of the .284 bullet versus the .308.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, I have been familiar with the Taylor formula for years and while it makes a certain amount of sense, in other areas it doesent impress me much.

Any time you try to create one formula that covers the entire playing field it is going to be close in some areas and way off in others.

I am sure not going to argue the point under theoretical conditions, I will lose every time.
Instead I am just taking into consideration the effects I have noted and the damage I have traced from both bullets.

We must take into consideration in the field , how far you want to shoot, what you want to shoot , what angle you want to shoot, and do you want to have one hole or two.

For deer and smaller critters it really doesent matter. For elk I want two holes every time if I can get em.
It don't always work no matter what you are shooting , but I deal with the odds, and the odds are the 7 mag is a better round than the 06.

It may not hit harder, but it hits farther and deeper and under some circumstances that means more.
 
I used a 260 rem last year for the first time and I'd have to say that with the accuracy, low recoil (compared to the 30 cal.), and the velocity and energy retention this has become my favorite deer rifle. The deer I shot with it last year made it 20 yards.........down the hill on its side at 388 yards. For a clean kill I have always been told that you need 1000 fpe for deer. The 260 reloads will retain a 1000 fpe to 600 yards. The 260 rem. doesn't start out really hot but it holds what its got well.
 
Everything all boils down to shot placement!

You can have a custom Ultralazzeronidakotaby, shooting a bullet flat as a lazer, dang near going the speed of light, but if you can't hit where you want to. what good is it?
One of the cleanest kills I've ever witnessed was a buck deer taken with a .22 rimfire, that deer dropped right where he stood and didn't even twitch!(To protect the innocent, :rolleyes: I won't say when or where this happened, but it is a fact!)
Also, I remember reading an article in a hunting magazine years ago all about knock-down power and in the opening paragraph there was mention of a fellow in Alaska that spoted a Big Bull Moose on top of the beaver dam that was creating the lake by his cabin, this guy got out his little .22 and fired a shot in the direction of that Bull Moose to scare him off and to his amazement that moose dropped dead on top of that Beaver dam. :eek:
So get a rifle that you're comfortable with and learn to shoot it accurately and it will serve you well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I've seen a 100gr. 243 drop a deer at 1/2 mile. Best shot I've ever seen. The large 160lb. doe didn't even kick. My brother also brought down a near 300lb. buck with one well placed shot. My uncles all shoot 30 06 and have lost more deer than I can count. After this last season they went and bought 243. Me personally I prefer a broadhead and carbon shaft.
 
KS Redneck, I don't want to sound rude, but it sounds like your uncles should be spending more time at the range rather than looking for a different cartridge. If a deer ran off after being hit with a 30/06 it's not because of the caliber, it's because of the shooter.
 
I used a 30-06 for over 20years, down more animals than I can remember, but I love the 7mag, (162gr.nosler partion)where I hunt the shots are out to 400 yards, I use a range finder, and won't take a shot over that, I have shot deer out to 300yards, and it takes over 2hours to get to the down animal,
so all year I shoot targets, at 300,400yards, where I hunt you get one shot, if you miss, you'll never see that deer again.
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My favorite deer cartridge is the .280 Ackley loaded with the 140-grain nosler Ballistic Tip at 3150 or the 120-grain Ballistic at 3350. I've used the cartridge with complete satisfaction to kill a little over forty deer, about twenty antelope, several elk and one fair moose.

The deer were killed in Oregon, Montana and Alberta. The whitetail and mulies in Alberta run big, so it speaks highly of the cartridge.

The .280 Ackley ballistics are a bit less than the 7Mag, but the lack of recoil makes more accurate shooting possible.

I write for firearms magazines and shoot so much that I tend to avoid magnums. Hey, put the bullet where it counts and the critter falls down dead. Pretty simple.

SteveTimm
 
Steve Timm, how do you like the 30-06 improved compared to the .280 improved? I have been thinking about improving my 30-06. I have never played with a 30-06 improved. I compared the 30-06 AI to the .280 AI and 7mm Rem Mag in the Nosler #4 and the 06 AI looks damn good.
 
Ron,

As you probably know by now, I wrote the introduction for the .30-'06 Ackley in the Nosler #4 Handbood.

I love the 30-06 Ackley, but I couldn't stand the recoil. Please bear in mind that I shoot many thousands of rounds each year and I eventually couldn't shoot it as well as the .280 Ackley.

I've been pushing for Nosler to make a .30 caliber 140-grain Ballistic for many years. The .30-06 Ackley with the 140 Ballistic would be superb. So far no luck, but I'm working on it.

I'd also like to see a Partition Ballistic Tip.

The .280 Ackley with 120s or 140s is about as close to perfect as I've found. Low recoil (so I can shoot it better), flat reajectory and excellent long range killing power.

SteveTimm
 
Steve Timm, I read your introduction for the 30-06 AI and the 22-250 AI. The 30-06 AI looks like one hell of a cartridge. I am confident in my 30-06 and there isnt a HUGE gain in velocity over the 30-06 according to the #4. I just think it would be fun to play with a wildcat cartridge. Yeah, a 140grn bullet from Nosler would be nice for the 30's. The only 30 cal 140grn I am aware of is the Barnes X 140grn bullet. Have you ever used the 125grn Nosler BT on deer? My 30-06 shoots them better than anything else! I usually use my 25-06 and 22-250 for coyote but those two rifles are heavy barreled guns and i dont always like to carry them.i loaded some of the 125grn Noslers with 53grns of IMR 3031 for coyote and they shoot great. Thanks, Ron
 
Yes, I've shot the 30-125 Ballistic and it is a heck of a bullet. Actually, it's sad that it is not more appreciated.

Something that most shooters don't know (and Nosler grudgingly acknowledges) is the fact that the Ballistic Tip is going through a constant evolution. Yes, they were way too soft seven or eight years ago. And yes, they were maybe a little too soft five years ago.

About four years ago, I started getting penetration that rivaled anything but Partitions and core/jacket intact. I started recovering 7mm bullets that expanded to .70 and .80. Combined with superb accuracy and flat trajectory, this has evolved to be a fine, fine bullet.

Regrettably, shooters often try a bullet once and never think about its evolution over time.

SteveTimm
 
By the way, I'm currently working on an article for The Varmint Hunter Magazine on the .280 Ackley Improved. It will be a full feature article with lots of field notes, load chart, hero pics of dead things and all of the personal experiences the readers love.

The article just went over 5K words and will probably flesh out to 7K by the time I'm done.

I'm working on the January 2003 deadline (August 1, 2002), so I would assume it readers will see it in January.

SteveTimm
 
guy's there are a lot of factors to consider in declairing the "ULTIMATE" deer gun.You have to factor in area/terrain, style of hunting, size/type of deer, but most important is shot placement. i've hunted with lots of calibers, from 7mm & 300 mags down to 222, any will kill a deer with a well placed shot, but you can lose one just as easy with a poor shot. As for the area I hunt, and the style of hunting I do I have finally figured out my "ULTIMATE" deer gun, and it has took several years & guns to do so. Mine is a bolt action .308/w 4x scope/165gr.soft points. This is the gun I grab when I fully intend on putting meat on the table. The best gun for me may or may not be the best for you. All I'm saying is factor in everything and do some in the field testing for yourself. Then make your decision. you can't and won't go wrong with that!
 
Joel,

You are so very right. The Ultimate Deer Gun is one that handles like an old friend. It varies from person to person.

For you, it's your favorite .308 and for me, it's my .280 Ackley. And we're both right.

Both of us have fancier, more expensive rifles, but when we are serious about killing something, the rifle that we totally love goes with us.

SteveTimm
 
Like a couple guys already said, it's were you put that pill. I like the old 264 mag on deer, you know, the one that the 7mm mag replaced hehehe. Good Hunting
 
I just had to laugh a couple of times as I read all of the postings on this topic over the last year or so.

Just like so many people say, it's not the size of the wand, it's how you use it.

SteveTimm and another person said it perfectly. And it is the way my hunting buddies and I feel. The best cartridge is the gun that you are the most comfortable and accurate with. The biggest thing to remember is that the ballistics do not impress the animal...... Granted you should use one that isn't too underrated for the animal that you are hunting. With smaller cal. guns I only go for the head shots. They eather run away or stop in there tracks. There are just way to many great calibers out there to say one is better than another. And if you plan on taking that longer range shot, YOU OWE IT OUT OF THE RESPECT OF THE ANIMAL THAT YOU ARE HUNTING TO PRACTICE AT THOSE RANGES AND ONLY SHOOT AT THOSE RANGES THAT YOU, NOT THE GUN ARE CAPABLE OF.

I would have to say that the deer and or animals that get away are not so much the gun or the cartride as it is the shooter!!!!! Sorry a little long winded. Just had to put in my .02 cents in....

If possible I would like your .02 cents. I'm looking at building my own wild cat. I'm looking at taking the 7 RUM and neck sizing to the .260. Any Ideas? Is any one going to be coming out with this cartride soon?
 
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