reloading questions to get accuracy
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willy1947
Active member
Originally Posted By: CatShooter
Of all the threads on getting accuracy I have read here in the last 12 years, this one has the most convoluted, amateurish, and silly advice I have seen.
Hey God, would you please send down a bolt of lightening to hit the server and delete this piece of crap!!
.
X2
Of all the threads on getting accuracy I have read here in the last 12 years, this one has the most convoluted, amateurish, and silly advice I have seen.
Hey God, would you please send down a bolt of lightening to hit the server and delete this piece of crap!!
.
X2
so, how about some of you guys who think the answers are so bad step up & enlighten the other poor posters as to your superior methods? Clearly, they could benefit from your experience.
Kurt in Oregon
New member
I don’t think the advice given here is so bad, but many of these steps are probably not going to be reliably repeatable due to temp, wind etc...Actually finding an accurate load is way easier than it used to be with so many having done most of the work for you.
Firstly, make sure your equipment is sound. Tight scopes, stock torqued, trigger crisp. A crappy trigger will ruin any chance of accuracy. Barrel should be clean, but don’t worry about cleaning every 5 shots. Make sure cases are prepped consistently. Choose your bullet for intended purpose. Use a powder that just about fills the case with max loads,and best velocities and others have had success with. Short barrels use a slightly faster version, longer barrels slightly slower. I usually load a round at min, fire it, look for pressure signs, increase by a grain, fire, watch for pressure. When I find the load that presents with good, but not over pressure from primer inspection, start there...load some test rounds .030 off the lands and see how she flies. Maybe try 0.010 from the lands on the next five. if you’re getting 1/2 MOA or better, call it a day. especially with the velocity expected. You can play with primers and other powders, but increasing round after round by 0.3gr from minimum is tedious and unnecessary.
Works for me...glad my ol’ bench rest days are behind me....drove me nuts.
Firstly, make sure your equipment is sound. Tight scopes, stock torqued, trigger crisp. A crappy trigger will ruin any chance of accuracy. Barrel should be clean, but don’t worry about cleaning every 5 shots. Make sure cases are prepped consistently. Choose your bullet for intended purpose. Use a powder that just about fills the case with max loads,and best velocities and others have had success with. Short barrels use a slightly faster version, longer barrels slightly slower. I usually load a round at min, fire it, look for pressure signs, increase by a grain, fire, watch for pressure. When I find the load that presents with good, but not over pressure from primer inspection, start there...load some test rounds .030 off the lands and see how she flies. Maybe try 0.010 from the lands on the next five. if you’re getting 1/2 MOA or better, call it a day. especially with the velocity expected. You can play with primers and other powders, but increasing round after round by 0.3gr from minimum is tedious and unnecessary.
Works for me...glad my ol’ bench rest days are behind me....drove me nuts.
CatShooter
New member
one grain between test loads??
There ya' go. Why waste time with tedium. Go from starting load to max in ten minutes!!
There ya' go. Why waste time with tedium. Go from starting load to max in ten minutes!!
Kurt in Oregon
New member
Yep Catshooter! works for me for 35 years! Actually for my small .17s I go 1/3 gr. for 222 and223 cartridges 1/2. .243 and larger, 1 gr.
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ninehorses
New member
How about you read this article on brass prep.
Precision Case Prep
You may not want to go this far, or have the tools to do it. It is still a good read if you are chasing bug holes.
Precision Case Prep
You may not want to go this far, or have the tools to do it. It is still a good read if you are chasing bug holes.
Originally Posted By: CatShooterone grain between test loads??
There ya' go. Why waste time with tedium. Go from starting load to max in ten minutes!!
I start 2 grains below the max of the manual and work up from there even going over max.
I have found that case prep can do quite a bit for consistent groups.
There ya' go. Why waste time with tedium. Go from starting load to max in ten minutes!!
I start 2 grains below the max of the manual and work up from there even going over max.
I have found that case prep can do quite a bit for consistent groups.
NdIndy
New member
Every time I read an accuracy thread I get a little happiness knowing I'm a big game hunter and not a benchrest shooter. Pick the bullet you want, pick the load you want (plus a couple on either side just in case) and go to the range. Then go hunting, then start field dressing etc. I'd go insane trying to find 1 perfect combo to shave 1/100th an inch off of a group. Moa'ish is meat in the freezer to 5-600 yards on my 'targets' without trying too hard.
Originally Posted By: NdIndyEvery time I read an accuracy thread I get a little happiness knowing I'm a big game hunter and not a benchrest shooter. Pick the bullet you want, pick the load you want (plus a couple on either side just in case) and go to the range. Then go hunting, then start field dressing etc. I'd go insane trying to find 1 perfect combo to shave 1/100th an inch off of a group. Moa'ish is meat in the freezer to 5-600 yards on my 'targets' without trying too hard.
The more i read, and the more i follow the links that are shared and ready that.. The more i am starting to agree with you..
I want to be as accurate as possible, but I am not a bench shooter, and up to a certain point making minor changes makes a measureable difference. Some of the bench stuff that i have read, makes me question if the time spent creating a hunting load, is really worth it.
My example is, if the methods i use net me a sub .5 MOA group, with a Standard Deviation of 10, that's good enough for hunting because improving on a SD of 10 i start getting to the point where getting better is almost impossible becuase there is a certain amount of SD that is just part of the powder burn rate varience, and cutting powder with an exacto knife won't make that go away.
The more i read, and the more i follow the links that are shared and ready that.. The more i am starting to agree with you..
I want to be as accurate as possible, but I am not a bench shooter, and up to a certain point making minor changes makes a measureable difference. Some of the bench stuff that i have read, makes me question if the time spent creating a hunting load, is really worth it.
My example is, if the methods i use net me a sub .5 MOA group, with a Standard Deviation of 10, that's good enough for hunting because improving on a SD of 10 i start getting to the point where getting better is almost impossible becuase there is a certain amount of SD that is just part of the powder burn rate varience, and cutting powder with an exacto knife won't make that go away.
ninehorses
New member
Funny... Moa'ish at 600 yards means you will have trouble keeping your shots on a 12 inch gong. If this makes you happy, then why even read a thread on accuracy. I have friends like you, that bring old Betsy out to play at the long range steel. They end up frustrated, and end up shooting one of my rifles and ammo.
dan brothers
New member
Easy Peazy to me... This is the first group I shot past 100 yds, which is where I worked up my load using my simple system for my new 22-243 AI... this 296 yd... 5 shot group made me happy.
Oh God...there defiantly is one person you can send lightening too... let him reap his own wish.
Oh God...there defiantly is one person you can send lightening too... let him reap his own wish.
dan brothers
New member
'Quote...
so, how about some of you guys who think the answers are so bad step up & enlighten the other poor posters as to your superior methods? Clearly, they could benefit from your experience.
Stu...they are more talk than walk... Big Mouths Always Are... probably drunk as well.
so, how about some of you guys who think the answers are so bad step up & enlighten the other poor posters as to your superior methods? Clearly, they could benefit from your experience.
Stu...they are more talk than walk... Big Mouths Always Are... probably drunk as well.
CatShooter
New member
Sorry, but I wasn't drunk...
405 yards
still haven't explained your process.
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: Stu Farish
"still haven't explained your process."
Because, Stu, what the OP asked for, was a book, not "help"
His question was so nonspecific and open ended, that it could take a week to write down EVERYTHING relating to accuracy.
It is like saying, "I am a new driver, can you tell me how to make my car faster and corner better?" What car, a VW or a Mustang?? Can you even drive well??
The OP asks...
"I am a novice reloader and have loaded for 223/243 and 270. I have many of the recommended powder for loading these as well as various bullets. My question are mainly what method do you use to get to the optimal accuracy for a rifle."
Well, WHAT RIFLE?? A break open clunker, or a top of the line heavy barreled varmint rifle.
What groups is he getting - 3" at 100, or 0.3" at 100 - there are totally different suggestions for either case.
Is the rifle glass bedded, has he done the trigger, etc....
And what is his loading skill - he said nothing. What loading dies is he using - old Lyman dies, or Redding Comp dies - he said nothing.
There are a thousand suggestions, If you have no ground work laid and no place to start from.
So he is asking for everything, and that is a book.
And, after asking the question, he has run off and abandoned the thread.
If I wanted to write a book, I'd put covers on it and sell it.
"still haven't explained your process."
Because, Stu, what the OP asked for, was a book, not "help"
His question was so nonspecific and open ended, that it could take a week to write down EVERYTHING relating to accuracy.
It is like saying, "I am a new driver, can you tell me how to make my car faster and corner better?" What car, a VW or a Mustang?? Can you even drive well??
The OP asks...
"I am a novice reloader and have loaded for 223/243 and 270. I have many of the recommended powder for loading these as well as various bullets. My question are mainly what method do you use to get to the optimal accuracy for a rifle."
Well, WHAT RIFLE?? A break open clunker, or a top of the line heavy barreled varmint rifle.
What groups is he getting - 3" at 100, or 0.3" at 100 - there are totally different suggestions for either case.
Is the rifle glass bedded, has he done the trigger, etc....
And what is his loading skill - he said nothing. What loading dies is he using - old Lyman dies, or Redding Comp dies - he said nothing.
There are a thousand suggestions, If you have no ground work laid and no place to start from.
So he is asking for everything, and that is a book.
And, after asking the question, he has run off and abandoned the thread.
If I wanted to write a book, I'd put covers on it and sell it.
then maybe some suggestions on where to learn more are in order, rather than just sneering at everyone else's contributions? The Sierra videos are quite good, for example:
http://www.amazon.com/Sierra-Reloading-D...rifle+reloading
http://www.amazon.com/Sierra-Reloading-D...rifle+reloading
Stu, you have to understand: that is just how Catshooter does it. If he is not ridiculing someone else for their ways, he is waxing philosophical on what he does and how well it works. In my estimation seldom does he do anything but stir the pot.
I have been loading for almost as long as he has and have had some modicum of success, but I refuse to get into this thread because of exactly what you pointed out: there are WAY too many that want to ridicule rather than help.
Thanks for posting what a lot of those who worship at his feet wouldn't post. You nailed it.
I have been loading for almost as long as he has and have had some modicum of success, but I refuse to get into this thread because of exactly what you pointed out: there are WAY too many that want to ridicule rather than help.
Thanks for posting what a lot of those who worship at his feet wouldn't post. You nailed it.
Hidalgo
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: DoublessStu, you have to understand: that is just how Catshooter does it. If he is not ridiculing someone else for their ways, he is waxing philosophical on what he does and how well it works. In my estimation seldom does he do anything but stir the pot.
I have been loading for almost as long as he has and have had some modicum of success, but I refuse to get into this thread because of exactly what you pointed out: there are WAY too many that want to ridicule rather than help.
Thanks for posting what a lot of those who worship at his feet wouldn't post. You nailed it.
LOL .... you're off base. CatShooter can speak for himself, but I would like to offer this to you: I've been here since 2006. I know the guy much better than you (obviously). Yeah, he gives short answers at times. Yeah, he's a bit blunt. And yeah, he doesn't suffer stupidity very well. But unless you have conversed privately with him and understand his personality you may have a hard time with some of his comments. I have talked with him by PM and asked for help. He gave it readily and saved me a lot of time and money when nobody else had the answers that I needed. And NO ... I don't "worship at his feet". I consider him a friend and also know that he's a much more experienced reloader than most on this or any other internet forum. If you're as experienced as he is then that's fine. Consider yourself in rare company.
If people were smart, they would look over any "abrasive" tones or comments and take whatever wisdom that he offers and apply it to their needs. Or ... just don't read what he says. There is an ignore button available for everyone's use. If they don't like someone's posts or personality they can use the darn thing.
I have been loading for almost as long as he has and have had some modicum of success, but I refuse to get into this thread because of exactly what you pointed out: there are WAY too many that want to ridicule rather than help.
Thanks for posting what a lot of those who worship at his feet wouldn't post. You nailed it.
LOL .... you're off base. CatShooter can speak for himself, but I would like to offer this to you: I've been here since 2006. I know the guy much better than you (obviously). Yeah, he gives short answers at times. Yeah, he's a bit blunt. And yeah, he doesn't suffer stupidity very well. But unless you have conversed privately with him and understand his personality you may have a hard time with some of his comments. I have talked with him by PM and asked for help. He gave it readily and saved me a lot of time and money when nobody else had the answers that I needed. And NO ... I don't "worship at his feet". I consider him a friend and also know that he's a much more experienced reloader than most on this or any other internet forum. If you're as experienced as he is then that's fine. Consider yourself in rare company.
If people were smart, they would look over any "abrasive" tones or comments and take whatever wisdom that he offers and apply it to their needs. Or ... just don't read what he says. There is an ignore button available for everyone's use. If they don't like someone's posts or personality they can use the darn thing.
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Originally Posted By: HidalgoOriginally Posted By: DoublessStu, you have to understand: that is just how Catshooter does it. If he is not ridiculing someone else for their ways, he is waxing philosophical on what he does and how well it works. In my estimation seldom does he do anything but stir the pot.
I have been loading for almost as long as he has and have had some modicum of success, but I refuse to get into this thread because of exactly what you pointed out: there are WAY too many that want to ridicule rather than help.
Thanks for posting what a lot of those who worship at his feet wouldn't post. You nailed it.
LOL .... you're off base. CatShooter can speak for himself, but I would like to offer this to you: I've been here since 2006. I know the guy much better than you (obviously). Yeah, he gives short answers at times. Yeah, he's a bit blunt. And yeah, he doesn't suffer stupidity very well. But unless you have conversed privately with him and understand his personality you may have a hard time with some of his comments. I have talked with him by PM and asked for help. He gave it readily and saved me a lot of time and money when nobody else had the answers that I needed. And NO ... I don't "worship at his feet". I consider him a friend and also know that he's a much more experienced reloader than most on this or any other internet forum. If you're as experienced as he is then that's fine. Consider yourself in rare company.
If people were smart, they would look over any "abrasive" tones or comments and take whatever wisdom that he offers and apply it to their needs. Or ... just don't read what he says. There is an ignore button available for everyone's use. If they don't like someone's posts or personality they can use the darn thing.
Hidalgo, it isn't personal, but I try to put myself in someone else's shoes when I read a question like was asked by the OP. You state that Catshooter doesn't suffer stupidity well, he is blunt, and that he give short answers a lot. Well, guess what? There was a time when Catshooter was a new reloader. What if those he went to for answers hadn't "suffered stupidity very well"? Not that he is stupid, or ever was, but there is a time in all our lives as a handloader when we are "stupid", speaking generally: we don't know what others know, and sometimes don't even know how to ask an intelligent question. If that is seen as stupidity, then so be it; I gladly join the ranks of the stupid. And often, short answers just don't get it done, in my estimation.
I just don't see the benefit of ridiculing someone else for posting what they thought was an honest question; it comes across as condescending, and I have no time for that. It benefits no one and says things about us that may not be true when we do it. Frankly, I see Catshooter do it way too often, and like I said, it benefits no one...
Please tell me where the ignore button is; and I am serious. I will use it. (Frankly, I suspect some have already used it on me, and that is fine...)
I have been loading for almost as long as he has and have had some modicum of success, but I refuse to get into this thread because of exactly what you pointed out: there are WAY too many that want to ridicule rather than help.
Thanks for posting what a lot of those who worship at his feet wouldn't post. You nailed it.
LOL .... you're off base. CatShooter can speak for himself, but I would like to offer this to you: I've been here since 2006. I know the guy much better than you (obviously). Yeah, he gives short answers at times. Yeah, he's a bit blunt. And yeah, he doesn't suffer stupidity very well. But unless you have conversed privately with him and understand his personality you may have a hard time with some of his comments. I have talked with him by PM and asked for help. He gave it readily and saved me a lot of time and money when nobody else had the answers that I needed. And NO ... I don't "worship at his feet". I consider him a friend and also know that he's a much more experienced reloader than most on this or any other internet forum. If you're as experienced as he is then that's fine. Consider yourself in rare company.
If people were smart, they would look over any "abrasive" tones or comments and take whatever wisdom that he offers and apply it to their needs. Or ... just don't read what he says. There is an ignore button available for everyone's use. If they don't like someone's posts or personality they can use the darn thing.
Hidalgo, it isn't personal, but I try to put myself in someone else's shoes when I read a question like was asked by the OP. You state that Catshooter doesn't suffer stupidity well, he is blunt, and that he give short answers a lot. Well, guess what? There was a time when Catshooter was a new reloader. What if those he went to for answers hadn't "suffered stupidity very well"? Not that he is stupid, or ever was, but there is a time in all our lives as a handloader when we are "stupid", speaking generally: we don't know what others know, and sometimes don't even know how to ask an intelligent question. If that is seen as stupidity, then so be it; I gladly join the ranks of the stupid. And often, short answers just don't get it done, in my estimation.
I just don't see the benefit of ridiculing someone else for posting what they thought was an honest question; it comes across as condescending, and I have no time for that. It benefits no one and says things about us that may not be true when we do it. Frankly, I see Catshooter do it way too often, and like I said, it benefits no one...
Please tell me where the ignore button is; and I am serious. I will use it. (Frankly, I suspect some have already used it on me, and that is fine...)
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