Question for Steve Timm

Great story, Steve! You the man!

But it seems for Those of Us That Want to Know you left out a few very important things. For example:

What caliber was the hockey stick, and how many grains was it before it hit the coyote, and how many grains later? Was there any sign of hockey stick failure? Did it perform as it was advertised? Would you feel comfortable recommending this very hockey stick to others? Perhaps an "improved" model might be better?

If bigger game presents itself someday, would you think perhaps someting a bit larger, say a boat baddle or an oar maybe? Do you think hollow point would be fine, or would you think it be best to use a Full Metal Life Jacket?

Please! More stories! More stories! You can't stop now!
 
Originally Posted By: Jeff MockI hate like heck to put you on the spot, but when I see a photo of a dead coyote and a hockey stick, well, there has to be a pretty good story behind that. Kind of like being in the check out line at the supermarket, and the guy in front of you has a roll of tape and some peanut butter. There just has to be a very good story behind it.

I look forward to hearing it.

Jeff

Peanut butter and a roll of tape?!?!?! LMAO!!!! Where did that one come from - I'm now thinking thoughts I shouldn't be thinking on a family site!?!?!!?!? LOL!!

Steve, please stay, and just ignore the jerks as stated above - it's gonna happen. They don't know you, and if recently-past history on this site is any guide, they won't be here long. The "delete" button and "remove myself from this topic" buttons are great! It's easier than any bar or diner argument! Stick around and forget about them! You obviously have a wealth of knowledge to offer us, and that's why most of us are here. I haven't had a TV hooked up in almost 7 years, but I'm on here pretty much daily. Hey, a guy's gotta have some kinda electronic addition in this day and age, right?
 
I also used to read your writing for Varmint Hunter mag. Great to have you here.
Quick question for you Steve. Why have you prefered the 100 BT in a 25-06 or 250 ackly over the 115 Bt? I have been using the 115 BT in a 25-06 but only shot 3 deer and around 15 coyotes with this bullet. I have been thinking of trying the 100 BT but was worried about performance on big game and wind bucking ability until I came across this thread. You have shot far more game than I ever will.
I say more stories also, great reading!
 
Originally Posted By: Steve TimmOriginally Posted By: Jeff MockI hate like heck to put you on the spot, but when I see a photo of a dead coyote and a hockey stick, well, there has to be a pretty good story behind that. Kind of like being in the check out line at the supermarket, and the guy in front of you has a roll of tape and some peanut butter. There just has to be a very good story behind it.

I look forward to hearing it.

Jeff


OK, Jeff, you asked for it.

About seven or eight years ago, Chub Eastman, my friend who was then the Sales Manager for Nosler Bullet (now a writer for Sports Afield) and I were on our annual hunt in Alberta. Generally, I would go up and murder a mulie and a whitetail, while Chub killed a whitetail and sometimes a moose.

So, the scene was north of Cochran, locally known as Bottrel, maybe ten miles south of Water Valley.

My guide's family owned a large hay field that was surrounded by dense bushcountry. It was prime whitetail country; really rolling hills, that backed up to the Rocky Mountains and you never knew if you'd catch elk, moose, deer or coyotes out in it. Every day, we would do a raid or three on the area and we often killed critters there.

One noon we were out in the middle of the rolling field, working with the tractor and setting up a blind out of round bales. We made it into a kind of castle, one that we could literally drive our truck into and watch out of several "portholes."

As we finished building our "castle," my guide, Jamie, yelled from the tractor, "Hey Steve, there's a coyote out about 300, why don't you shoot him with that .280?"

So, what's a guy to do? I leveled out on him and killed him.

And a second one popps up and starts running across the field. He was about the same range, so I lead him a LOT and fired for effect. I hit him, because his back side went down and his running became labored.

Then Jamie yells, "Hey Yank, why don't you run him down with the truck?"

Hey, it sounded great to me. Hitting a running coyote at 300++ yards is BS luck and a feat I'd probably not soon equal.

So, I jumped in the truck and sped across the field towards him. Eventually, he disappeard into a coullee and I closed the range.

While I wad sriving, I noticed that Jamie had a hockey stick in the back of the truck and my evil brain hatched a plan. I was fixing to shoot the coyote again, but if I could outrun the wounded dog, I'd just give him a slap-shot.

So, down into the coulee I roared with the Toyota and, sure enough, the coyote was there. He wasn't running too fast, so I grabbed the hockey stick and took out after the bugger.

About fifty yards from the truck, the coyote turned around, bared his teeth and made aggressive noises that made me maybe want to rethink the scheme. But, what the heck, it might still work.

So, I closed in and we had a bit of a human-coyote standoff, him growling and snapping his teeth and me maybe cursing a bit.

He lunged towards me and without thinking, I raised the stick and slammed it down precisely in the center of his skull.

And that killed him deader than a doornail. I was amazed.

My friend and guide, Jamie, told and retold that tale a zillion times. After that, many times I've been introduced to some total stranger, only to have the the guy or gal say, "Oh heck YEAH, you're the crazy Yank that killed the big old coyote with perfect SLAP-SHOT."

Indeed, indeed I am.
grin.gif
grin.gif
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It is a local legend around Botrell, Alberta and, unlike most rural legends, it is TOTALLY TRUE.

Anyway, that is the story of the hockey stick coyote. And if I hadn't done it, I truly would not have believed it. That toothy bugger was trying his level best to BITE ME and I was amazed how sincerely dead a hockey stick can make a coyote.

Hope you enjoyed this yarn.

Steve

PS. Believe it or not, that evening Jamie and I were in the "castle blind" and towards dark we were literally surrounded by whitetail. I shot a quite decent 140-ish buck (4X4, plus eyeguards) out of them with my .280 Ackley using a single 140 Ballistic. It was about two days later that I shot a really cool 4X6, plus eyeguards mule deer buck from the same blind. The mule was really cool, with one typical side and the 6-point side being non-typical. Much to Jamie's chagrin, I also murdered a few more coyotes from the castle blind.

By the way, Alberta coyotes run pretty large and they are great fun to call and shoot. ST






This is one of the GREATEST hunting stories I have ever heard.
thumbup.gif
 
Good thing it wasn't one of those plastic-tipped hockey sticks... that would have "splashed on the hide" only leaving a surface wound. Only solid copper hockey sticks with grooves down the shaft should be used for slapping critters.
 
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Originally Posted By: canineshooterI also used to read your writing for Varmint Hunter mag. Great to have you here.
Quick question for you Steve. Why have you prefered the 100 BT in a 25-06 or 250 ackly over the 115 Bt? I have been using the 115 BT in a 25-06 but only shot 3 deer and around 15 coyotes with this bullet. I have been thinking of trying the 100 BT but was worried about performance on big game and wind bucking ability until I came across this thread. You have shot far more game than I ever will.
I say more stories also, great reading!


Hi,

I've killed deer and antelope with just about every weight of bullet possible in the .25-'06. After having done that, I very much settled on the 100-grain bullets and either the Nosler Ballistic Tip or the Hornady Spire Point Interlocked (just plain cheap red box boolits). Both work superbly.

I guess a case could be made that the heavy bullets drift less and they might be proved a bit flatter over looooong range. On the other hand, they also increase the recoil a bit.

In using the .25-'06 and .250 Ackley, I'm trying to utilize and enjoy each cartridge for what it is. It seems to me that by loading 115, 117 and 120-grain bullets, you're getting pretty close to the .270. In which case, why not just buy a .270?

Also my experience has been that the 100s simply electrocute deer and antelope. They take the bullet and die right there. My experience with the 115s and 120s is that they take the bullet and run off for a bit until they die. Perhaps it's where I place the bullet or something, but after having killed a passle of deer and goats, the 100s simply blow the life out of them.

I've never recovered a 100-grain Ballistic Tip and I've only found one Hornady Interlocked. The penetration of 100s is not a problem, for hunters who insist on two holes.

The 100s fly quite flat and have a decided advantage within game ranges.

All in all, I've proved to myself that the 100s are for me. I've matured waaay past the point where I believe everybody should use what I do. But, for me, I'll take the 100s and I'm a happy guy.

Oh, I should mention that twice I've been caught with my pants down in areas where both deer and elk were legal and I was set for deer and carried 100s in my gun and a legal bull turned up. In both instances, I've killed the bull elk deader than a doorbell and the bullets sailed right through. Each bull required but a single 100-grain Ballistic and the exit hole in each case was about 1.5-inches. Both were shot cleanly behind the shoulder and they died identically ... simply planted their nose in the dirt and rolled over quite sincerely dead.

My good buddy, who has at least equal experience to me, Johnny Barsness, champions the heavy-weight bullets in the .25s. Johnny really loves the 115s and 120s. That has been his experience and I will never argue with a man who has spent his lifetime in the bush and has come up with a different conclusion than I have on bullet weight.

A few of my readers have asked, "How can you get along with that Barsness fella?? He came up with a different conclusion about bullets." Actually, Johnny and I have roomed together lots and are the best of buddies. He shoots 115-grainers in his .257 and God Bless Him. I shoot 100s in my .25-'06 and am happier than a hog in slop. It ain't a matter of friendship or who's right; it's a matter of using the equipment in which you have the most confidence ... and that confidence comes from many years of experience in the bush and killing lots of critters.

Hope this helps, God Bless You,

Steve
 
This is exactly why I enjoyed your writing before. Very few people can put a ton of experience to writing it down so well.
I will give the 100 g. a try.
Thanks again for the detailed answer.
 


Originally Posted By: canineshooterThis is exactly why I enjoyed your writing before. Very few people can put a ton of experience to writing it down so well.
I will give the 100 g. a try.
Thanks again for the detailed answer.


Absolutely no problem, my friend.

Please never hesitate to ask.

Your bud Steve
 
Now that was a good story! I just knew it had to be a good one. A Canadian coyote with a hockey stick...It can't get much better than that eh?
 


Jeff,

I had never held a hockey stick in my life and I was amazed at how very light it was.

You'd think that the coyote would have been better mannered. After all, the only thing I did to him was to put a bullet through one of his back legs, just breaking the bone a little bit. Oh yeah, and I ran him down and was like gonna whack him just a little with a stick. Nothing too bad.

And what does he do? Jeez, he turns around growling and snapping his teeth at me and being all mean. He simply had no sense of humour, not at all.

When I whacked him, I truly believed that the light hockey stick would no little or nothing. And when the hit totally and sincerely killed the coyote, I was amazed.

My next thought is that playing hockey without a helmet would be downright suicide. Those sticks are really something.

Anyway, I've swung one hockey stick in my life, after handling it for maybe thirty seconds, and have a score of one most sincerely dead 'yote.

Not bad, methinks.
grin.gif
grin.gif


Steve
 
Friend Joe,

Maybe one day.

First, I have to write a book on the early-Fathers. As you know the folks, from Clement through Augustine are a particular fascination to me. Others of interest are Justin, Ignatius, Irenaeus and, in particular, Egeria. That project is still gelling in my brain and I simply have to sort it out. Right now, it's about as solid as half-formed Jell-O.
grin.gif


The most difficult part of writing anything is in blocking it out in your head. I've found that it helps to center on a large area of interest and then spotlight that part that is REALLY of interest. And then, cut that in half .... and the subject will still be too large by double.

We always write best about that which is of the most interest to us. And we write worst about that which bores us to tears.

Anyway, old friend, have patience. One day, there might be a Steve-the-Hunter book; God willing that I live that long. Frankly, it would have to be pretty large because my articles cover next to nothing of my big game hunting in North America and Afrika.

Steve

 
A book of the early Church Fathers would be outstanding. I am currently starting Book X of DE CIVITATE DEI. My mastery of Latin is waning, to say the least, and progress is slow.
John
 
Originally Posted By: Steve TimmFriend Joe,

Maybe one day.

First, I have to write a book on the early-Fathers. As you know the folks, from Clement through Augustine are a particular fascination to me. Others of interest are Justin, Ignatius, Irenaeus and, in particular, Egeria. That project is still gelling in my brain and I simply have to sort it out. Right now, it's about as solid as half-formed Jell-O.
grin.gif


The most difficult part of writing anything is in blocking it out in your head. I've found that it helps to center on a large area of interest and then spotlight that part that is REALLY of interest. And then, cut that in half .... and the subject will still be too large by double.

We always write best about that which is of the most interest to us. And we write worst about that which bores us to tears.

Anyway, old friend, have patience. One day, there might be a Steve-the-Hunter book; God willing that I live that long. Frankly, it would have to be pretty large because my articles cover next to nothing of my big game hunting in North America and Afrika.

Steve




A book on the Early Fathers would be fascinating too. You know me if its History I love it.
 
Steve - I recently read on 24hr that you'd left and come over here, so I registered here. Figured that if I guy like you hung out here it might be a credible place to be. IMO 24 hr is a great forum as well, but yeah, like any community it's got its 10%. I'm sure there's a 10% here as well, but I hope you'll hang in here.
non illegitimi carborundum
 
Originally Posted By: Steve Timm

Originally Posted By: canineshooterI also used to read your writing for Varmint Hunter mag. Great to have you here.
Quick question for you Steve. Why have you prefered the 100 BT in a 25-06 or 250 ackly over the 115 Bt? I have been using the 115 BT in a 25-06 but only shot 3 deer and around 15 coyotes with this bullet. I have been thinking of trying the 100 BT but was worried about performance on big game and wind bucking ability until I came across this thread. You have shot far more game than I ever will.
I say more stories also, great reading!


Hi,

I've killed deer and antelope with just about every weight of bullet possible in the .25-'06. After having done that, I very much settled on the 100-grain bullets and either the Nosler Ballistic Tip or the Hornady Spire Point Interlocked (just plain cheap red box boolits). Both work superbly.

I guess a case could be made that the heavy bullets drift less and they might be proved a bit flatter over looooong range. On the other hand, they also increase the recoil a bit.

In using the .25-'06 and .250 Ackley, I'm trying to utilize and enjoy each cartridge for what it is. It seems to me that by loading 115, 117 and 120-grain bullets, you're getting pretty close to the .270. In which case, why not just buy a .270?

Also my experience has been that the 100s simply electrocute deer and antelope. They take the bullet and die right there. My experience with the 115s and 120s is that they take the bullet and run off for a bit until they die. Perhaps it's where I place the bullet or something, but after having killed a passle of deer and goats, the 100s simply blow the life out of them.

I've never recovered a 100-grain Ballistic Tip and I've only found one Hornady Interlocked. The penetration of 100s is not a problem, for hunters who insist on two holes.

The 100s fly quite flat and have a decided advantage within game ranges.

All in all, I've proved to myself that the 100s are for me. I've matured waaay past the point where I believe everybody should use what I do. But, for me, I'll take the 100s and I'm a happy guy.

Oh, I should mention that twice I've been caught with my pants down in areas where both deer and elk were legal and I was set for deer and carried 100s in my gun and a legal bull turned up. In both instances, I've killed the bull elk deader than a doorbell and the bullets sailed right through. Each bull required but a single 100-grain Ballistic and the exit hole in each case was about 1.5-inches. Both were shot cleanly behind the shoulder and they died identically ... simply planted their nose in the dirt and rolled over quite sincerely dead.

My good buddy, who has at least equal experience to me, Johnny Barsness, champions the heavy-weight bullets in the .25s. Johnny really loves the 115s and 120s. That has been his experience and I will never argue with a man who has spent his lifetime in the bush and has come up with a different conclusion than I have on bullet weight.

A few of my readers have asked, "How can you get along with that Barsness fella?? He came up with a different conclusion about bullets." Actually, Johnny and I have roomed together lots and are the best of buddies. He shoots 115-grainers in his .257 and God Bless Him. I shoot 100s in my .25-'06 and am happier than a hog in slop. It ain't a matter of friendship or who's right; it's a matter of using the equipment in which you have the most confidence ... and that confidence comes from many years of experience in the bush and killing lots of critters.

Hope this helps, God Bless You,

Steve



Steve, after doing a bunch of reading, and some of your old posts specifically, I've decided that I'm going to run the Nosler 100BT in my 25-284 for everything from woodchuck's to whitetails. I'm thinking it'll do nicely. Brad.
 


Originally Posted By: royboy99Steve - I recently read on 24hr that you'd left and come over here, so I registered here. Figured that if I guy like you hung out here it might be a credible place to be. IMO 24 hr is a great forum as well, but yeah, like any community it's got its 10%. I'm sure there's a 10% here as well, but I hope you'll hang in here.
non illegitimi carborundum


Friend Roy,

I just disappeared over there after the same three clowns kept digging at me. No fanfare, just left quietly four months ago.

I've forgotten who found me over here, but it was a good guy and a friend. And it was he who announced where my new cyber-home was ... PredatorMasters

Yeah, we'll probably never get rid of the 10%; you're always going to have fools like Derby Dude, Maser, Lee24 and The Real Hawkeye, plus those who know more than everyone, like Ken Howell (all 24HourCampfire miscreants). I'm becoming ever of the opinion that we should simply ignore them and REJOICE in the 90% who are good guys and BROTHERS.

Yeah, I'll hang in here, if they don't kick me out
grin.gif


Welcome to the Predators, my brother,

Steve
 
Originally Posted By: brdeanoOriginally Posted By: Steve Timm

Originally Posted By: canineshooterI also used to read your writing for Varmint Hunter mag. Great to have you here.
Quick question for you Steve. Why have you prefered the 100 BT in a 25-06 or 250 ackly over the 115 Bt? I have been using the 115 BT in a 25-06 but only shot 3 deer and around 15 coyotes with this bullet. I have been thinking of trying the 100 BT but was worried about performance on big game and wind bucking ability until I came across this thread. You have shot far more game than I ever will.
I say more stories also, great reading!


Hi,

I've killed deer and antelope with just about every weight of bullet possible in the .25-'06. After having done that, I very much settled on the 100-grain bullets and either the Nosler Ballistic Tip or the Hornady Spire Point Interlocked (just plain cheap red box boolits). Both work superbly.

I guess a case could be made that the heavy bullets drift less and they might be proved a bit flatter over looooong range. On the other hand, they also increase the recoil a bit.

In using the .25-'06 and .250 Ackley, I'm trying to utilize and enjoy each cartridge for what it is. It seems to me that by loading 115, 117 and 120-grain bullets, you're getting pretty close to the .270. In which case, why not just buy a .270?

Also my experience has been that the 100s simply electrocute deer and antelope. They take the bullet and die right there. My experience with the 115s and 120s is that they take the bullet and run off for a bit until they die. Perhaps it's where I place the bullet or something, but after having killed a passle of deer and goats, the 100s simply blow the life out of them.

I've never recovered a 100-grain Ballistic Tip and I've only found one Hornady Interlocked. The penetration of 100s is not a problem, for hunters who insist on two holes.

The 100s fly quite flat and have a decided advantage within game ranges.

All in all, I've proved to myself that the 100s are for me. I've matured waaay past the point where I believe everybody should use what I do. But, for me, I'll take the 100s and I'm a happy guy.

Oh, I should mention that twice I've been caught with my pants down in areas where both deer and elk were legal and I was set for deer and carried 100s in my gun and a legal bull turned up. In both instances, I've killed the bull elk deader than a doorbell and the bullets sailed right through. Each bull required but a single 100-grain Ballistic and the exit hole in each case was about 1.5-inches. Both were shot cleanly behind the shoulder and they died identically ... simply planted their nose in the dirt and rolled over quite sincerely dead.

My good buddy, who has at least equal experience to me, Johnny Barsness, champions the heavy-weight bullets in the .25s. Johnny really loves the 115s and 120s. That has been his experience and I will never argue with a man who has spent his lifetime in the bush and has come up with a different conclusion than I have on bullet weight.

A few of my readers have asked, "How can you get along with that Barsness fella?? He came up with a different conclusion about bullets." Actually, Johnny and I have roomed together lots and are the best of buddies. He shoots 115-grainers in his .257 and God Bless Him. I shoot 100s in my .25-'06 and am happier than a hog in slop. It ain't a matter of friendship or who's right; it's a matter of using the equipment in which you have the most confidence ... and that confidence comes from many years of experience in the bush and killing lots of critters.

Hope this helps, God Bless You,

Steve



Steve, after doing a bunch of reading, and some of your old posts specifically, I've decided that I'm going to run the Nosler 100BT in my 25-284 for everything from woodchuck's to whitetails. I'm thinking it'll do nicely. Brad.



Hey Brad,

I've had the experience of not only killed lots of critters with the 100-grain Ballistic Tip in my .25-'06, but having watched my bride kill many.

I know my wife is a killer, but I simply cannot keep myself from watching her animal as she shoots it. I'm in bipod and zoomed up to 10X or 14X (the max for the particular scope) and I'm carefully watching the bullet strike and the animal's reaction.

Trust me, if Karen screwed up, I would send a second bullet on its way in one nano-second, to correct the problem.

Karen has killed perhaps thirty (maybe more) deer and antelope with me laying beside her and watching. I have never had to fire a single round at one of her .250 Ackley kills. They take the bullet, usually tight behind the shoulder and they have one of two reactions: either the drop at the shot DRT or they hump/kick and make a struggle before dropping.

The occasional antelope is holed behind the shoulder and takes off at Mach 10; fifty yards out there appears to be a hitch in his front legs and 55 yards out, he drops in a cloud of dust.

These are precisely the same reactions I get with my .25-'06. My shots behind the shoulder tend to tear the heart from the pericardial sac because I often find the bare heart laying in the bottom of the thoractic cavity. Almost always, the aorta is blown off and the heart is still prime for dinner (that's good because I LOVE heart more than any other part of the animal).

Exit holes, sat at 200 yards, on a broadside antelope with my .25-'06, tend to be on the order of 1.5" to 2". I try to set up the shots, so I can avoid an angle that would send my Ballistic Tip into the shoulder, so I try for a slightly onward angle rather than a slightly going away.

When I do my job of shooting with the aorta destroyed and the far shoulder not affected, I lose practically no meat. Maybe two ounces of rib lifters.

And the critters are most sincerely dead.

Hope this give you a few forensics that will be helpful.

Steve
 
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