Public schoolers: How's that indoctrination workin' out?

Originally Posted By: Timberbeast7jeffo,

Did you get beat up by a home schooled kid as a child? I'm just trying to figure out where your irrational hatred for home schoolers comes from.


No hatred. I just don't think homeschooling is the end-all solution to the problems we are discussing. For some, yes. For most, no. I simply don't think most parents could do a good job of it, like they think they could. There's more to it than most folks realize.
 
Originally Posted By: jeffo I simply don't think most parents could do a good job of it, like they think they could. There's more to it than most folks realize.

such as?
 
Originally Posted By: jeffo I simply don't think most parents could do a good job of it

maybe because most of those parents were public schooled? they dont have that chuck norris, super ninja teaching degree?
 
Quote:Quote:Most teachers enter the profession with a sincere love of children and a desire to shape their futures for the good. But their often mandatory involvement with teachers' unions and government mandates wipes away their innocent and naïve interest, leaving behind jaded, bitter and disillusioned people who once hoped to shape our children with great care.

"innocent and naive..." Wow. Doesn't speak well for the colleges that gave them degrees.

So jeffo, I take it the college you attended taught you all about the teachers union's agendas, government mandates, etc, etc, (so that you weren't "innocent and naive") and you still chose to go into government school teaching instead of (non union) private school?

But it had nothing to do with pay or benefits right?

It must have been because you thought government schools did a better job of educating kids than private schools, right?




Quote:I just don't think homeschooling is the end-all solution to the problems we are discussing. For some, yes. For most, no. I simply don't think most parents could do a good job of it, like they think they could. There's more to it than most folks realize.

Not the "end all solution" at all, not an option available to most households, and there are certainly some failures. But when it can be afforded, either homeschooling or private schooling work better than government schooling overall.
 
I would be interested in seeing the number of home-schooling "failures" versus the number of public school "failures". Percentage wise, I bet the public school system produces FAR more "failures", even with all those people with teaching degrees "working" their hardest.
 
Take that bet every chance you get Timberbeast. You'll win in a walk.

What really confuses me is that so many of the government school teachers (not all by any means) defend the system.

"It's not the government school system's fault, it's society."

"It's not the government school system's fault, it's the parents".

"It's not the fault of bad teachers, it's the parents AND society."

It is also a little strange that while there undoubtedly is "more to it than most people realize", teaching as a profession has somehow become a "Science", as in a Bachelor of Science-Education, but the schooling has become worse than when teachers just had "majors" in something (history, English, math). It is interesting to note that many of the best schools (private) no NOT require their teachers to have a teaching degree or certificate.
 
nmleon,

I was going to mention that the best "educators" I know do not have an education degree. If they have a degree, it is a degree that lends itself to securing employment in the private sector or a performance oriented job, not teaching. And they usually have experience in the private sector or a performance oriented job, not teaching.
 
Originally Posted By: nmleon
It is also a little strange that while there undoubtedly is "more to it than most people realize", teaching as a profession has somehow become a "Science", as in a Bachelor of Science-Education, ..


OK. I admit it. Stop the presses. I lasted outside just a fraction of the time I expected but let it be known that I briefly stepped into this closet of pseudo-intellectuals and looked around and instantly found nmleon on his soapbox spreading incorrect information about public education and public school teachers.

FACT- My Bachelors degree on the wall from Arizona State University is a Bachelors of Arts in Education degree not a Bachelors of Science in Education.

You obviously do not understand the difference. The Bachelor of Science and/with Education is a degree awarded to students who complete the four to five year course of study in the field of science (major and minor in biology, chemistry, physics, math) and Education, it is the combination of degree in science and education course(sometimes refer to double degree programs B.Sc + B.Ed = B.Sc.Ed). Although notionally B.Sc and B.Ed are two degrees, they must be taken together. There are very few universities that offer this course because it requires collaboration between the Faculty/School of Science and that of Education. It is to make sure that the teacher not only can work in education institution but also industrial area that related to science. Upon graduation, the students will straight away get offer job by government and private institution(mostly teach for matriculation, foundation or high school students) due to deep understanding of specific science and professional teaching training. Graduates also can work in other based science related industries. Bachelor of Science AND Education is totally different with Bachelor of Science IN Education.

Don't hate because you ain't. You can do some post back at a local community college at night and get an AA degree in truck driving or something simple. There is hope for you yet. Make your momma proud.
 
I wonder how this "Simple Truck Drivers" check looks compared to yours Hype? Oh, and I didnt have to go out and rack up a tremendous amount of debt to get where I am at!
 
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I'm also confused about what the difference is going to be between NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND and RACE TO THE TOP?

Good hunting!
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We all know how tough it is to drive a truck with a few extra gears. So once has to think, why is he getting so much? Could it be because he is on the other side of the world driving in a war zone risking life and limb to get someone some mattresses?

Sorry, I will take lower pay, be with my family, and go hunt when I want.

There is something to be said for not incurring dept by going to college, not much but something.
 
Originally Posted By: nmleonTake that bet every chance you get Timberbeast. You'll win in a walk.

What really confuses me is that so many of the government school teachers (not all by any means) defend the system.

"It's not the government school system's fault, it's society."

"It's not the government school system's fault, it's the parents".

"It's not the fault of bad teachers, it's the parents AND society."

dont forget "we need more money. education is under-funded"
here in oregon education is something like 57% of the state budget. works out to roughly $11000 per student per year. in portland its almost $12000 per student per year. and they still complain about not having enough money, yet only 75% of the students graduate.
if you figure that each class averages 25 kids, that is $275000 per year per class. divide that by 9 months and we get $30555 per class per month, divided by 25 kids, $1222 per kid per month. where does that money go?

http://www.all4ed.org/files/Oregon_wc.pdf

http://www.oregonlive.com/hovde/index.ssf/2009/07/graduation_rate_dismal_ideas_w.html
 
Let me be clear Hype, and you to Jeffo, I dont think I am better than anyone, liberal or not! Bottom line is most of us are disappointed at what the education system is churning out for the most part. And to be honest, I feel sorry for some of you teachers. I could be wrong but I think you guys would do much better at what you do if the freakin government would get the [beeep] out of the way! Oh and by the way, the Unions have got to go also! And one more thing, I dont have anything against higher education, but I dont like to be brow beaten into thinking you wont amount to anything without it! Hard work, not higher education, has done just fine for me so far! Besides, I think it is insane what it cost to send kids off to college these days! And as you know, a degree is not a guarantee to success in life.
 
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Like you, I don't much enjoy running into a bully. I can remember every one I ever encountered...and what happened them!

Self-defense is still legal!
 
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This thread is as much entertaining as it is irritating. Like a brawl in street you know you shouldn't watch, but you just can't help it.

I personally think schools are a very good reflection of the communities in which they are located. There are students in every school that will learn now matter how little money is spent and there are those that will not learn no matter how much money is spent. It has little to do with administration or teacher pay. It comes down to students wanting to learn and teachers that take an interest in students and their learning.

My wife is a teacher (BA in education) and I am an engineer (BS chemical engineering). I make about three times as much as she does. Whose job is most important? Hers, I believe. While my job provides for my family and the company I work for feels like they need me or they would let me go, my wife is affecting the lives of people that will go on to affect the lives of many others.

Some of the most useful people I have ever worked with didn't have degrees, while some of the most useles had PHD after their name. Too subjective and I don't really get too caught up in the "I have a degree and you don't" debate. It's really a waste of time and effort. Far too many people tend to believe the greater amount of pay brings with it a greater amount of class, intelligence, etc. There are a great many exceptions to that rule.
 
Originally Posted By: Bill B.Some of the most useful people I have ever worked with didn't have degrees, while some of the most useles had PHD after their name. Too subjective and I don't really get too caught up in the "I have a degree and you don't" debate. It's really a waste of time and effort. Far too many people tend to believe the greater amount of pay brings with it a greater amount of class, intelligence, etc. There are a great many exceptions to that rule.

Nailed it Bill. One doesn't need a degree to understand it either.
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I do not think any lower of anyone who chooses to pursue a profession where a degree is not a requirement but can the majority of you pessimists say the same for someone who does choose to get a degree?
 
Originally Posted By: sweatybettyOriginally Posted By: jeffo I simply don't think most parents could do a good job of it, like they think they could. There's more to it than most folks realize.

such as?

Such as the time you need to put in. Also, you need to know stuff. Most people could probably teach elementary-aged kids, but beyond that...
 
Originally Posted By: sweatybettyOriginally Posted By: jeffo I simply don't think most parents could do a good job of it

maybe because most of those parents were public schooled? they dont have that chuck norris, super ninja teaching degree?

Yes.
 
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